Mountain void sim(s) for water - poll

[Sonja Strom]

Would you prefer that there be mountains above the elevation of the city of Neufreistadt to provide a water supply for it, or would you prefer that the city of Neufreistadt be at the top of an island?

Please let us know your preference above.

[bjerkeleerie]

Currently a river from nowhere runs thru NFS on its way to AM and flows to the sea. For those of who like magical fantastical impossibilities this is just swell. In the real world rivers have sources in snow packed mountains or huge rain basins above the water courses.

With the availability of open space sims, it is possible for CDS to choose to tell a geologically plausible story about the origins of its rivers from a glacial mountain range above NFS in an economically sound way by renting a few small mountain plots overlooking NFS form high mountian side lots under snow capped summits located east of the city walls.
Or:
We can allow the expansion of a rather disneyesque extension of the NFS theme that is as impossible as an Escher woodcut to both the east and west of the current city walls. Maybe we could have a looped river that feeds itself, and castle walls that climb up and up and turn back on themselves with clever vilolations of the laws of perspective.

Its your choice, its your community. (even if advisory referendums are too risky for the democracy of CDS)

[Salzie Sachertorte]

*post withdrawn*

[Jamie Palisades]

Personal aesthetic opinion only. I like Bjerkel's authenticity idea, but fear its effects on our masterplan grid. The elevation in NFS is a big obstacle to robust sim expansion -- IF we want desirable waterfront land. AM did teach us that people like mountains too, though. (Though I'd like us to be a little less elitist about lot placement next time.)

I start from the assumption that we will not move the original NFS cluster. (Losing that loses a 3 year collection of ambient LMs; it's like throwing away your brand.) If I am right, then our ability to expand to the East of the current 3 sims is limited anyway. If so, then putting impassable high peaks in a void to the East of NFS might create some fun scenery and maybe a relocated Schloss. .. without foregoing expansion, since we can't really go more than one more map square East anyway

But first, we'd have to be certain we are ready to expand (by purchasing, not talking) -- and that we are committed to several voids (which I think we should be, but ditto, all we have so far is ineffective talk) -- and I'd have to hear what our Guild thinks about the resulting map.

Also, point, if we do *not* have a natural terrain runoff explanation for the streams, seems to me that we *should* do something, magic or otherwise, in NeuAlt to explain, and finish, that bloody ditch. Cheers Jamie P

[Sonja Strom]

I start from the assumption that we will not move the original NFS cluster. (Losing that loses a 3 year collection of ambient LMs; it's like throwing away your brand.)

Jamie, are you sure that if a sim moves on the grid, its existing Landmarks will not direct to the new location

[Patroklus Murakami]

I'm not sure that moving our sims will affect landmarks. You would imagine that it would be fairly straightforward for LL to make sure that landmarks are consistent when estate owners make such a move. Losing established landmarks would be a drawback for anyone I should imagine. Does anyone have a link to a Knowledge Base article (or some other statement) which would settle this?

In order to fulfill our Regional Masterplan we will have to move our current three sims at some point. As has been pointed out there are already sims in places we intend to use or blocking us (inadvertently) from expansion. So we'll have to deal with this issue at some point.

[bjerkeleerie]

One hundred and two viewers and 11 poll takers, does this mean 10% of viewers have an opinion? 81% in favor sounds like great support and 10% would be a good sample, but there is of course no way to determine how representative it is, as it is self selecting, but then aren't voters a self selecting population? What is the typical turn out in a CDS election? Is CDS a nation of lurkers without opinions?

[Beathan]

BJ --

It means that there are many repeat visitors who read the newly posted items in this thread. As they already too the poll, there is no need to take it again. There are, by my count, 6 posts (prior to this one) on this thread. At one visit, per poll taker, we have explained half the traffic. We also need to add to that number the people who don't have a preference or who don't consider themselves competent to ring in with an opinion (there is no, "either or none" type poll answers). Also, there are people who reread old posts for various reasons.

This is not an indication of CDS turnout. It does underscore a concern about these forums -- which reach most of the most active members of our community, but which do not (for some reason) reach deep into our community.

Beathan

[bjerkeleerie]

Brathen,
is it a case that the"community" really is on some level the people who post? Certainly there is a community of "those who post". Is that community in any way representative or non representative of s greater community? here are 80 odd property owners. How many are serious participants in CDS, and how many in a silent majority of CDS that find themselves marginalized by the more aggressive assertive personalitys? My questions were not about the mechanics of posting, but rather an attempt at prompting an exploration of the significance of non-participation. Is CDS primarily a political role playing game?, is it a pretend middle European simulation, some home brew version of "The Sims" or is it about being an on-line community? What is the Geography of Democracy in a Virtual World?

[Sonja Strom]

Here is a depiction that Bjerkel made and gave me of how mountains above Neufreistadt could make it look.
I think it is well-done, and an interesting view.

[Aliasi Stonebender]

Brathen,
is it a case that the"community" really is on some level the people who post? Certainly there is a community of "those who post". Is that community in any way representative or non representative of s greater community? here are 80 odd property owners. How many are serious participants in CDS, and how many in a silent majority of CDS that find themselves marginalized by the more aggressive assertive personalitys? My questions were not about the mechanics of posting, but rather an attempt at prompting an exploration of the significance of non-participation. Is CDS primarily a political role playing game?, is it a pretend middle European simulation, some home brew version of "The Sims" or is it about being an on-line community? What is the Geography of Democracy in a Virtual World?

A great many people don't care either way, so long as it's stable. I imagine many treat the CDS as any other estate owner. Then again, it may depend on where you come from - i.e., the USA has no mandatory voting; showing up to the polling place is a statement of opinion in and of itself. Other nations have mandatory voting; if you don't show you are charged a fine. I could see our setup puzzling a person who's used to such.

[Timo Gufler]

I start from the assumption that we will not move the original NFS cluster. (Losing that loses a 3 year collection of ambient LMs; it's like throwing away your brand.) If I am right, then our ability to expand to the East of the current 3 sims is limited anyway. If so, then putting impassable high peaks in a void to the East of NFS might create some fun scenery and maybe a relocated Schloss. .. without foregoing expansion, since we can't really go more than one more map square East anyway

Those are good points Jamie. According to Linden Labs moving a sim causes the links from Pick tab to break (See https://support.secondlife.com/ics/supp ... ionID=4012). But does this also mean that landmarks also break? SLurls won't break because they refer to the sims by names.

About expansion to east... If you look around CDS there really seems to be an obstacle of three sims in that direction. Expanding CDS to that direction would result a collision with the neighbor. Either CDS or the neighbor must move if we want to expand without restrictions. By the way, has anyone yet proposed that CDS asks the neighbors to relocate themselves and pays their relocation costs? Myabe they were also happy to have their place in more open waters.

Is it lack of my imagination or why the high peaks would create funny scenery and require relocation of Schloss? I like the idea of mountains east of NFS. There are really not many true mountain sims in SL and having an openspace with maybe four mountain huts (= four lots with about 930 prims) would be very unique idea.

I agree with Bjerke and Sonja that the current source of river is not very realistic. Making it to flow from the mountains to the AM would look more natural. But if the mountain will be placed east from the city how are we able to connect the river and the mountains because the city is on the way? Should we have a stream that flows through the city underground?

[Salzie Sachertorte]

*post withdrawn*

[Sonja Strom]

My perspective is, it would be really great for the CDS to eventually have some mountains. Given the height of Neufreistadt already, it would make sense for any mountains in the CDS to be in its area, especially as a way to provide the town with water. Having its water arrive in this way could look really wonderful and give the town more of a cozy, comfortable feeling. It would also be of interest to have topography that would go up above the SL cloud layer (at the level of NFS), for views looking out across the clouds. A mountain backdrop could make the area more scenic, and give it more of an Alpine feel, which I would like it to have. I believe having that would also make the CDS a more unique and attractive community in SL.

In the past I have always thought it would look most scenic to have mountains go up just behind the city of Neufreistadt, on the east side of it. Timo's comments above make a lot of sense, however, and now I am thinking it could be better for them to go to the west of the NFS sim. At the moment I am kind of undecided about where would be the best place for them to be, but I think probably his idea is better.

It seems to me that Neufreistadt would not be made any less important because of mountains being next to it going up to a higher level. RL towns like Salzburg, Chamonix and Aspen are not regarded as any less important because they are not at the highest topographical point in their regions.

Speaking of towns like these, another issue of interest is skiing in the CDS. The entire slope from NFS to Colonia Nova does not take long to ski down, and if Neufreistadt were to remain the highest point in the CDS this would be the best skiing we could have. If we offered real quality skiing, this could be another aspect of our community that would make it of interest.

Bringing in mountains would not have to happen now, but is something we could work toward. For one thing, the current SL technology does not allow us to have very far views out across the landscape. I believe this technology will improve with time, and we could have a nice landscape in place when longer view distances become available.

As many in the CDS government know, in the past I offered to purchase a set of 4 open space (otherwise known as void) sims for the CDS, and to have one of them be my home for which I would pay the tier (being 1/4 of the added tier cost). Unfortunately, RL and SL circumstances no longer allow me to afford this. However, recently I read that one of the greatest artists in Second Life has a dream of making four mountain sims. What he would like to make them a model of is the Himalayas, but I think that could work very well if he would agree to have them be in the CDS. If our community agrees with me that this would be a very interesting and enjoyable project, I will do anything I can to help make it a virtual reality.

Certainly we can continue to talk more about this as time goes on, hopefully in the meantime keeping our possibilities open.

[Ranma Tardis]

I would vote yes but there is a condition. Void sims were not meant by Linden Labs to generate income. Thus the condition would be the mountain would be a city park. A point is friend of mine used void sims to pay off business partners. They were not available to the general public. If rented who would be able to get this "premium" lot and why.
Another condition is no sky boxes to "pollute" the view.
A problem would be would the current residents wish to fund this with higher taxes if city property? We need to remember the world is entering a recession and money to pay for our CDS experience may be in short supply. We need to stay at a size that can be maintained in these tough economic times.