Representative Assembly Meeting
March 10, 2008 - 12:00 PM SLT
Praetorium, Colonia Nova.
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Representative Attendance (Alphabetical by Last Name):
Brian Livingston
Sonja Strom
Beathan Vale
Quorum was not met, so no votes were taken on agenda items.
Agenda:
The agenda for this weeks meeting was continued from the last week per procedural motion.
1. RA Process Bill
2. Celebrating our volunteers Bill
3. Greener Sims Bill
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Transcript:
Note: Due to SL inventory issues, the transcript from the first portion of the RA meeting was lost, a period of approximately 5 minutes. During this span of time, the meeting was called to order, roll was taken, and the meeting was postponed for an hour to allow representatives who were caught off-guard by the time change to attend the meeting.
[13:00] Sonja Strom: or, Welcome back
[13:02] Sonja Strom: So, ThePrincess and MT have excused absences?
[13:02] Beathan Vale: yes -- but I don't know if that means we have a quorum
[13:02] Sonja Strom: Right - but we know they will not be here.
[13:02] You: No, we still need 50% +1 to have a quorum
[13:03] Beathan Vale: and I don't know if we should consider the RA to be an RA of 5 or an RA of 7
[13:03] Beathan Vale: is it 50% of current members of 50% of potential members?
[13:03] You: I'd say an RA of 7, although the SCneeds to work on that. THe Constitution does stipulate that a faction controls its seats and the number of seats corresponds to the population of the CDS
[13:04] Beathan Vale: I agree - we should not do something that will be useless -- so we should take the most conservative interpretation until the SC rules
[13:04] Sonja Strom: That's fine with me.
[13:04] Sonja Strom: We already have a schedule for today anyway...
[13:04] You: I'll e-mail claude to request interpretation after the meeting
[13:04] Sonja Strom: That's a good idea
[13:05] Beathan Vale: true -- and the meting convened with a quorum last week -- but I think we should still wait a week -- let things settle a bit
[13:05] Sonja Strom: sure, actually I should correct myself...
[13:05] You: Ok, it is 1:05 PM SLT and I am reconvening this week's session of the Representative Assembly
[13:05] Sonja Strom: OK
[13:06] You: Attendance is noted, with Brian Livingston, Beathan Vale, and Sonja in attendance, with apologies from MT and The Princess
[13:07] Sonja Strom: Is there a recorder, or will we just use the chat log?
[13:07] You: We do not have a Quorum so no vote will be taken today on agenda items.
[13:07] Beathan Vale: chat log I thnk
[13:07] You: Yes, I don't have a recorder yet so Chatlog will have to suffice
[13:08] You: We *can * contineu with discussion on the agenda that was continued from the last meeting, again with no votes taken, if the Assembly so wishes
[13:08] Sonja Strom: That's fine.
[13:09] You: Beathan, would you like to lead the discussion of the next Agenda item, your RA Process Bill?
[13:10] Beathan Vale: ok
[13:10] Beathan Vale: discussion
[13:10] Beathan Vale: let me pull it up
[13:11] Beathan Vale: This is a multifaceted bill designed in large part to resolve conflicts we have had in past RA meetings by improving and streamlining the process
[13:11] Beathan Vale: I think everyone agrees that the last few RA meetings have not been optimal.
[13:12] Beathan Vale: Leon, in fact, has recently said that the last few RA meetings will discourage anyone from joining the CDS or following our lead in the creation of SL democracies
[13:13] Beathan Vale: there have been two principle suggestions for resolving this problem -- first, to empower the LRA still further, and give him autocratic control of the RA to squash conlict by squashing debate -- I think that this is a horrible idea
[13:13] Beathan Vale: second, the one I favor -- that precipited the bill -- to institute some formal and clear processes that allow for debate within a working framework that would prevent disruption and provide for movement of issues towards resolution
[13:14] Beathan Vale: I proposed Robert's Rules because they are tried and true -- these have been opposed as too complicated and too parochially American -- however, the opponents have not offered any real or sound alternative
[13:14] Beathan Vale: so -- to work through the propsoal
[13:15] Second Life: Please check http://blog.secondlife.com for an update on in world services. Do not conduct Land or L$ Transactions until you see an all clear message on our blog post.
[13:15] Beathan Vale: item 1 -- involves 7 day votes or the importance of inwolrd votes
[13:15] Beathan Vale: The first alternative is the one I support. It just spells out and clearly describes our current rule to prevent confusion like we had at at least one meeting last term
[13:16] Beathan Vale: Item 1A is proposed by ThePrincess, who believes that it is important for the RA to do things in world at meetings attended by citizens
[13:17] Beathan Vale: I think that this inworld stipulation is unncessary -- as citizens can attend and participate in forum discussions as easily as attend the inwolrd meeting -- more easily in most cases
[13:17] Beathan Vale: Item 2 might be most controversial -- it is designed to prevent hasty RA action
[13:18] Beathan Vale: several citizens with RL legislative experience have decried the speed of RA deliberations -- and have suggested that we follow the rule, common iRL, of introducing legislation, providing for a comment and consideration period not limited by the time limits of a hearing, and then representing the bill for vote
[13:19] Sonja Strom: Welcome Pip
[13:19] You: Good Day Pip 
[13:19] Beathan Vale: I favor rhis -- I think there is no reason why most legislation should be passed in the same hearing in which it is first introduced
[13:19] Pip Torok: hi everyone
[13:19] Sonja Strom: Welcome Bjerkel
[13:19] Beathan Vale: a two reading process seems wise, deliberate, and not too much of an obstruction
[13:20] Bjerkel Eerie: sorry to barge in
[13:20] Pip Torok: hi bj
[13:20] Beathan Vale: Item 3 just formalizes current process, for the most part, although it does clarify that Pat was just wrong in denying RA control of our agenda from the floor
[13:20] You: (No problem and welcome )
[13:20] Beathan Vale: However, even Jon Seattle has said that the RA has such control-- so item 3 essentially clarifies current procedure
[13:21] You decline NEW STARDUST CAFE, Five Blades (8, 227, 23) from A group member named Therese Nightfire.
[13:21] Beathan Vale: However -- it does accomodate a change I am proposing elsewhere of allowing things to be added to the agenda based on forum posts
[13:22] Beathan Vale: it also incorporates a resolution of some concerns of TP concerning notice
[13:22] Beathan Vale: Item 4 specifies RROs as the procedure for the RA.
[13:22] Beathan Vale: This is, I think, critical -- RROs work, work well and are not at all hard to use
[13:23] Beathan Vale: Item 4a is Pat's counterproposal -- it is insufficient -- it is not an improvement
[13:24] Beathan Vale: our problem is that we have a rule sketch -- not a set of rules -- and Pat's proposal is just another rule sketch that does not resolve our problems
[13:25] Beathan Vale: Item 5 adds the forum posts as a basis to add items to the agenda -- otherwise it just clarifies existing rules
[13:25] Beathan Vale: Item 5A is a substantial change -- it limits the power to propose legislation to RA members only
[13:26] Beathan Vale: again, this was suggested by citizens with RL legislative experience -- and it reflects what RL legislatures do
[13:26] Beathan Vale: I favor 5 over the alternative
[13:26] Pip Torok: mmmm
[13:26] Beathan Vale: I think we are not so large that citizens cannot propose legislation directly -- although we might get there
[13:26] Bjerkel Eerie: real life has petiton, referendum and recall
[13:27] Beathan Vale: Further, unless we have a referendum process allowing citizen proposals -- we should not strip the citizens of their already aenemic power to directly influence governemnt
[13:27] Beathan Vale: I think of citizen proposals of legislation as comparable to the RL right to petition government , which is a critical human right
[13:28] Beathan Vale: Item 6 is proposes that we add a general and open discussion period, with time limits, to the end of all our meetings
[13:28] Beathan Vale: I think that all well run meetings should have such a discussion
[13:29] Beathan Vale: The only opposition is that open discussions allow for "ambush of the LRA"
[13:30] Beathan Vale: However, the RA should expect to be ambushed by events and by citizen concerns from time to time -- and we should welcome such challenges as they will make us more aware of the issues of importance in our community and more responsive ot the needs of our citizens
[13:30] Sonja Strom: Hello, Welcome to the Representative Assembly meeting
[13:30] Beathan Vale: again -- we need to move away from a procedural of autocratic control and towards a procedure that works more like the rule of law
[13:30] Dieuwert Spijkers: hello all
[13:30] Dieuwert Spijkers: have a good serious meeting
[13:30] Dieuwert Spijkers: we dont disturb
[13:30] Beathan Vale: the basis of a democracy is that no individual dictates terms of law to the citizens
[13:30] Sonja Strom: If you would like, please join us and have a seat
[13:31] Lunatic Rang: first time to visit
[13:31] Lunatic Rang: but ty for the kind invitation
[13:31] Beathan Vale: The same should true of the legislature -- the RA should be ruled by law, but not controlled and stifled by the LRA
[13:31] Beathan Vale: to do this -- we need clear and complete procedures so that we don't rely on personal action and personal leadership to give our meetings order
[13:32] You decline Streeter's Place, Koskov (217, 81, 70) from A group member named Singerman Marquette.
[13:32] You decline THE CAVERN CLUB - Mathew St, Liverpool from A group member named Leyah Renegade.
[13:32] Beathan Vale: A good procedure makes meetings self-organizing without personal intervention (or with only limited personal intervention) of the chair -- that is critical for the RA moving forward
[13:32] Beathan Vale: That is all -- thank you chair
[13:32] Sonja Strom: Thank you Beathan!
[13:32] You: Thank you. Any other discussion on thsi bill before i make soem remarks?
[13:32] Sonja Strom: Thanks so much for putting all of your work into this!
[13:32] You decline Apfelland Hafen Clubschiff, White Eagle (186, 103, 31) from A group member named foxyflwr Cure.
[13:33] Pip Torok: yes tku is there a written form of those proposals?
[13:33] Pip Torok: tku
[13:33] Sonja Strom: Yes, I sent you one as a notecard.
[13:33] Beathan Vale: yes -- on the forum -- and I gave you a note
[13:33] You: Ok, a few quick thoughts I have had regarding this proposal, which I will work through by moving through each part of the proposal.
[13:35] You: For the record, I feel that this proposal is increasingly important as we grow. We are no longer an assembly of five representatives, but we are expanding rapidly, to the point htat 9 or 11 representatives may not be unheard of within the next year
[13:35] You: I agreew ith Beathan's interpretation of the bill and its alternatives, wit hteh following points of emphasis.
[13:37] You: Section 1: I am certainyl against teh alternative proposed for the first section, dealing with 7 day votes. To insist that the members submit to the RA's opinion on whether their absence is excused is rather insultign to the dignity of the RA members and unneccessarially delves into their SL and RL privacy.
[13:38] You: Section 4 does concern me, as I am not fully convinced that we need a several hundred page set of rules for governing our meetings, although it is evident that we do need a more defined set of rules
[13:39] You: That being said, I have been working on alternatives and have located a few , but any such alternative needs to be easily accessible for all RA members and citizens and it seems most rule sets for parlimentary pprocedures require purchasign the actual book, which is a bit of a hurdle for teh sake of easy reference.
[13:40] You: Section 5: I am opposed to the alternative proposal for this section, which limits the ability of citizens to propose legislation. Citizens need to be better empowered to interact with andshape their government, not hampered in that pursuit.
[13:40] Sonja Strom: I have a question about that part.
[13:41] You: Sections 2, 3, and 6 look reasonable to me.
[13:41] You: Yes Sonja
[13:41] Sonja Strom: What is the difference between 5. and Alternative 5a. ? I don't see it...
[13:42] You: Section 5 permits both RA members and citizens to propose legislation
[13:42] You: Alternative 5 a limits the ability to propose legislation to RA members only
[13:42] Sonja Strom: Oh, maybe I have an old notecard.
[13:42] Sonja Strom: In mine 5a does not, but 5b does.
[13:43] You: Hrm, perhaps I'm working off an old notecard then. Beathan?
[13:44] Sonja Strom: In future, maybe the versions given out could have dates on them, to tell them apart.
[13:45] Sonja Strom: Or version numbers, maybe.
[13:45] You: Hmm, I'm looking for a version with 5b and am not seeing it, but yes, probably not a bad idea to hav ea timestamp of some sort.
[13:46] You: In addition, whenI get a notecard dispensor (on the to do list this week), it will make this a bit mroe of a moot point
[13:46] Beathan Vale: yes -- that is an old version
[13:46] Sonja Strom: Well, so long as we have a distinction between those two possibilities maybe it is not really important...
[13:46] Beathan Vale: there were some minor time differences -- but they were moved
[13:47] Sonja Strom: Mine is the old version?
[13:47] Sonja Strom: or Brian's
[13:49] Brian Livingston pokes Beathan
[13:49] Sonja Strom giggles
[13:49] You: Hmm, in the interest of expediency, are there any other comments regarding the RA Process Bill?
[13:50] Sonja Strom: I have thought a lot about the Robert's Rules of Order concept,
[13:50] Sonja Strom: and posted about this in the Forum.
[13:50] Sonja Strom: I think we should abandon that particular route.
[13:51] Sonja Strom: It would be very good to clarify the RA rules much more,
[13:51] Sonja Strom: but I think we should do that on our own.
[13:51] Sonja Strom: We could use any of those same rules we wanted, but then simply add them into our own existing set of rules.
[13:51] Sonja Strom: Even if that makes our own rules quite large,
[13:52] Sonja Strom: it would still leave us in control of altering them as we wished...
[13:52] Beathan Vale: that process seems wrought with peril as well as being very challenging
[13:52] Sonja Strom: and no one would need to purchase anything.
[13:52] Sonja Strom: Why?
[13:53] Beathan Vale: and I have proposed purchasing copies for the CDS -- there should also be an electronic version we can purchase
[13:53] Beathan Vale: that is, I would personally purchase the RROs for RA members
[13:53] Beathan Vale: current RA members, at least
[13:53] You decline Champlain College Campus, Champlain College ITS (178, 97, 26) from A group member named kat Vargas.
[13:53] Bjerkel Eerie: LOOk I have a freind with a tool to copy and rezz a whole sim
[13:53] Beathan Vale: I think that trying to create a process from scratch is like reinventing the wheel
[13:54] Beathan Vale: it is hard and unnecessary as we have a proven set of useful rules ready to hand
[13:55] You: Hmm, an intersting and useful summary in a page of RRO
[13:55] You: http://www.robertsrules.org/
[13:55] Beathan Vale: yes -- excellent exhibit
[13:55] You: and motions used in meetings: http://www.robertsrules.org/motions.htm
[13:56] Sonja Strom: Ooh, those look very good Bjerkel
[13:56] Sonja Strom: I do also agree with ThePrincess that it would be good to have them posted somewhere in the meeting room when RA meetings are taking place,
[13:56] Sonja Strom: so everyone can refer to them and see what they are.
[13:58] Sonja Strom: Maybe like that, behind Bjekel, or maybe in the form of a book on the table or something.
[13:58] You: I think a notecard format would suffice, especially with the text-intensive format of the rules.
[13:58] Sonja Strom: OK, if you think it could be readable that way.
[13:58] You: However, that would be an issue if we institute RRO, as I've only found the 1915 rules in public domain
[13:59] Sonja Strom: Then in that case, I think it should be in the form of a "Rule Book" sitting on the table next to the "Constitution Book."
[13:59] Beathan Vale: yes -- but I could buy us an virtual or online licensed version
[13:59] Sonja Strom: Maybe.
[13:59] Sonja Strom: It seems like organisations must be able to do that.
[14:00] Bjerkel Eerie: I think they are public domain
[14:00] Beathan Vale: no RROs are copyrighted
[14:01] Beathan Vale: but cheap -- like $6 a pop
[14:01] Beathan Vale: paperback cheap
[14:01] Sonja Strom: OK, I will reconsider my view.
[14:01] You: How major are the differences between the Public Domain 4th ed and the current ed?
[14:02] Beathan Vale: I have not done that analyiss
[14:03] You: Hmm, something I can continue to research I suppose.
[14:03] Beathan Vale: there is some language differences -- older longer more confusing language in old version
[14:03] You: ah
[14:03] You: Any further comments on this bill?
[14:04] Sonja Strom: I have a general comment, that might be good to just bring up in this context.
[14:04] Sonja Strom: I would like for us to consider Arria's idea of having an Intiative process for the CDS.
[14:04] Beathan Vale: yes -- I am working on that
[14:05] Sonja Strom: (and yes, Beathan, in Switzerland this is also called an Initiative)
[14:05] Sonja Strom: "Volksinitiativ"
[14:05] You: I'm certainly open to a referendum/citizen initiative procedure
[14:06] Beathan Vale: but isn't there a referral process in Switzerland -- the legislature refers things to the citizens -- or is it completely citizen initiated?
[14:06] Sonja Strom: There is -- there are Referenda, and Initiatives.
[14:06] Beathan Vale: ok --
[14:06] Sonja Strom: When the Parliament or Cantonal Representative Assemblies pass laws,
[14:07] Sonja Strom: often they are approved by having Referendum votes.
[14:07] Sonja Strom: Some of these are mandatory.
[14:08] Sonja Strom: If the citizens want legislation that is different than what the legislative bodies have proposed already, then they have a right to begin an Initiative process.
[14:08] Sonja Strom: They collect signatures, and these issues are put on the ballot.
[14:08] Sonja Strom: They can supercede the Parliament or Cantonal governing bodies --
[14:08] Bjerkel Eerie: With the copyright expired, even the name "Robert's" has passed into the public domain, and many imitators have slapped the name "Robert's" on books of parliamentary procedure that bear minimal relation to General Robert's work (
[14:09] Sonja Strom: but they need to have a lot of signatures, and a majority vote,
[14:09] Sonja Strom: which is relatively rare to achieve, in order to make them become law.
[14:09] Sonja Strom: But it does happen.
[14:09] Sonja Strom: On occasion, the Parliament and so on will be against an Initiative that passes and changes the law.
[14:10] Sonja Strom: It does seem to me that it would be good for the CDS to have some procedure like this.
[14:10] Beathan Vale: I agree
[14:11] Sonja Strom: However, this does seem a bit different of an issue than the RA rules themselves.
[14:11] Sonja Strom: So, they do not need to be considered together.
[14:12] Sonja Strom: I was just thinking it might be good to bring up a discussion about such a concept at this time, while we are talking about making changes to the RA rules.
[14:12] Beathan Vale: yes -- especially as there is a proposal to limit RA legislation to matters proposed by RA membrs only
[14:13] You: Indeed.
[14:13] Sonja Strom: Right.
[14:14] Sonja Strom: It might be possible to have matters that the RA only could propose, but then a citizen Initiative way that non-RA members could propose things.
[14:15] Sonja Strom: I might be making this more complicated than is necessary, I don't know, but am just trying to bring up possible ways of doing it...
[14:15] Sonja Strom: In general, I think the changes proposed would be much better than the current system.
[14:16] Pip Torok: (agree)
[14:16] You: Agreed
[14:16] You: Any further comments? If not, let's briefly move to teh Greener Sims Bill before we adjourn for the week.
[14:17] Sonja Strom: I'm done talking about it, lol
[14:17] Beathan Vale: nothing further here
[14:17] Pip Torok: if anyones got a note about it id appreciate it
[14:17] You: Ok, Greener Sims Bill, Sonja, I believe you proposed this legislation?
[14:17] Sonja Strom: You mean the current version of the bill?
[14:17] Beathan Vale: notecard send
[14:18] Sonja Strom: Thanks.
[14:18] Sonja Strom: Actually, I believe the CSDF proposed that,
[14:18] Pip Torok: tks B
[14:18] Sonja Strom: although I support it.
[14:18] You: Oh, Hmm
[14:18] Bjerkel Eerie: i have never heard of it befor just now
[14:18] Sonja Strom: Hmm, maybe I am wrong about that...
[14:18] Sonja Strom: Well, we can talk about it anyway.
[14:19] Beathan Vale: it wa s CSDF proposal -- part of the platform
[14:19] Beathan Vale: seems noncontroversial
[14:19] You: My mistake. Either way, any thoguhts on this legislation
[14:19] Sonja Strom: I think it is about having the CDS purchase a "renewable energy credit" for its sims.
[14:19] Pip Torok: yes how are the emissions from CDS derived?
[14:20] Beathan Vale: I would like to see how expensive carbon offset credits would be
[14:20] Sonja Strom: Do we have any factories here?
[14:20] Beathan Vale: and how much 3 sims worth of credits would be
[14:20] Sonja Strom: What jobs do we have, actually?
[14:20] Beathan Vale: might be better to just plant a tree or three --
[14:20] Beathan Vale: but -- this bill makes a good statement iRL
[14:20] Pip Torok: e.g. is there a "smoking chimney" rate?
[14:20] Sonja Strom: Good question!
[14:21] Sonja Strom: It could set an example for SL.
[14:21] Sonja Strom: If all of SL did that, it might make a difference...
[14:21] Bjerkel Eerie: each sim uses as much electricity as teh average brazilian on an annual basis
[14:21] Sonja Strom: wow
[14:22] Pip Torok: yes but first things first ... eg how much emission do the 2 giant CN lamps emit?
[14:22] Bjerkel Eerie: 2 what???
[14:22] Pip Torok: you know the giant torches on the wall
[14:22] Beathan Vale: yes -- but we need to know the source of the power -- is it from a coal plant, or wind, or solar, or hydroelectic
[14:22] Sonja Strom: for SL, or the CDS
[14:23] Sonja Strom: ?
[14:23] Beathan Vale: as far as we know -- the SL servers are already low carbon
[14:23] You: The sims are located in Southern California? I would wagera gues that a good chunk would be hydro
[14:23] Beathan Vale: depends on where the servers are on the grid
[14:23] Pip Torok: perhaps were wading in detail too much at this stage
[14:23] Beathan Vale: some servers are in England now
[14:23] Sonja Strom: Does anyone know what the cost of this would be to the CDS?
[14:23] Pip Torok: oh????
[14:23] Beathan Vale: and some are on the East Coast, yes?
[14:23] Bjerkel Eerie: California is mostly nukes coal and oil
[14:24] Pip Torok: perhaps we should b brutal and measure CDS emission by the server outlay in its own energy
[14:25] Sonja Strom: Sorry, Pip, I don't understand what you mean.
[14:25] Pip Torok: well we have 3 sims here and they are run fundamentally by server ok?
[14:25] Sonja Strom: right
[14:25] Pip Torok: these server consume energy
[14:26] Bjerkel Eerie: and each uses about a thousand kwh per year or one megawatt
[14:26] Sonja Strom: correct
[14:26] Pip Torok: a proportion of the total LL energy requrement
[14:26] Sonja Strom: I see, OK thanks.
[14:27] Sonja Strom: And these credits would compensate for the use of 3 megawatts per year by purchasing them from renewable energy sources?
[14:27] Pip Torok: apologies for treading close to the facticity parameters of SL ...
[14:27] Sonja Strom: no apology necessary
[14:27] You: Hmm. So it seems more research is required to better weigh the neccessity and cost of htis proposal, includign perhaps an inquiry to LL regarding the energy usage of each sim, the source of their electricitiy and site of our servers, if they would release such detailed information that is...
[14:28] Sonja Strom: Maybe that would be good to do next, Brian.
[14:28] Pip Torok: yes .. although if we know the number and if the servers have equal power requirements we COULD derive it
[14:28] Bjerkel Eerie: it does not matter where they are located as all enrgy flows into the national grid and is mixed
[14:28] You: As well as the cost and avenues of purcahse for these carbon credits
[14:28] You: Unless tehy are located offshore in Europe
[14:29] You: Which Beathan has indicated as a possibility
[14:29] Pip Torok: with respect in a world crisis it wont matter where they are
[14:29] Bjerkel Eerie: germany is 80% cola nd nuke
[14:29] Pip Torok: ah i see your point
[14:30] You: I mean, we can certainly simplify this by figuring out how much energy each sim sues and simply bbuyign the credits and ignoring the detailed factors of electricity source and whatnot, which may be our best bet to accomplish the overal goal of thsi legislatio nand prevent our heads from exploding
[14:30] Sonja Strom: Do we actually know that these credits would help to offset the environmental impact of the servers?
[14:30] Pip Torok: not at the moment ...
[14:30] Beathan Vale: I think I am righton that -- I remember some service interuptions that LL said was involved in moveing sims to servers in England
[14:31] Sonja Strom: I have heard that also.
[14:31] Pip Torok: did LL justify the move to England?
[14:31] Sonja Strom: It was partly to stabilise the grid in Europe, in my understanding.
[14:31] Sonja Strom: Also to make it not so completely dependent on the Internet grid of the United States.
[14:32] Pip Torok: of course!
[14:32] Bjerkel Eerie: England has teh worst renewable energy policies in Europe
[14:32] Beathan Vale: it also might have been part of an attempt to set up a possible grid where casinos could run -- they would be illegal under US law, but English law is (apparently) easier to comply with
[14:32] Sonja Strom: Really? That is interesting... How do they compare with the USA?
[14:33] Bjerkel Eerie: we ahave a 30% tax credit they have nothing
[14:33] Beathan Vale: well -- I did not end up taking the solicitors exam as planned -- although I still have it on my longterm to dos -- so should not speculate
[14:33] You: Ok folks, I am goign to request we start wrapping up this discussion for now and perhaps continue in the appropriate forum threads, as it is now jsut after 2:30 SLT.
[14:33] Sonja Strom: OK
[14:33] Beathan Vale: second
[14:33] Sonja Strom: Aye
[14:33] Pip Torok: agree
[14:34] Sonja Strom: Does anyone want to look further into the details of these "green" credits?
[14:34] Sonja Strom: Like what Brian was saying earlier?
[14:34] Pip Torok: I do ... but i have calls on my time ...
[14:34] Beathan Vale: I will inquire with a attorney at work -- she is in the process of setting up a carbon bank
[14:34] Sonja Strom: Very great Beathan!!
[14:35] Bjerkel Eerie: I really think you should visit my Energy Paths Oveiview project to get a sense of what is going on in energy issues
[14:35] Pip Torok: BJ hav changed my mind ... this call comes first
[14:35] Sonja Strom: I am extremely busy, otherwise I would volunteer.
[14:35] You: If I get a chance I'll try to look itno it some this week
[14:35] Sonja Strom: Bjerkel, what do you mean? I didn't understand....
[14:36] Sonja Strom: Do you mean your Commonwealth project?
[14:36] Bjerkel Eerie: you have not seen what we are doing there sonja we are reduing all the sims
[14:37] You: So, I move to end discussion and adjourn this meeting of the R.A.
[14:37] You: Eep lag
[14:37] Beathan Vale: OK -- I have to run -- can we continue this meeting one more week for a vote when he have a quorum
[14:37] Sonja Strom: OK - we will stop for today then. See you later!
[14:37] Beathan Vale: and Brian -- are you posting the transcript?
[14:38] You: Yes, I'll do so later