A "sea change" is coming to CDS, and SL, finances

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Sudane Erato
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A "sea change" is coming to CDS, and SL, finances

Post by Sudane Erato »

I'm speculating a bit here... but I think not very much. I think that our community will need to start thinking soon about changes in the way we manage our money.

Consider these developments.

1) For a long time LL has collected VAT on transactions in SL from rl people in those countries to which it applies. Earlier this year they've started collecting USA (and I think Canadian as well) sales tax from rl people in those countries... like me.

2) Paypal announced earlier this year ( https://newsroom.paypal-corp.com/2021-1 ... s-Answered ) that it will begin sending IRS 1099-K forms to anyone receiving more than US$600 in their Paypal account. A LOT of SL transactions use Paypal. People receiving such forms will need to show that income on their tax filings.

3) And now, this: https://www.tilia.io/press/tilia-secure ... -jp-morgan Tilia, one of the smarter moves that LL has made in recent years, is teaming up with one of the world's largest credit card payment processors. "Strategic investment" is all well and good, but read closely.

"In addition to the investment, Tilia is also working with J.P. Morgan Payments to enhance its current capabilities throughout its processing platform including providing increased payment and payout methods, expanding pay-out currencies and support services."

So please sit back quietly and meditate on these developments. Yes, the financial transactions in SL and between SL<>RL may run more smoothly, dependably. But they are becoming increasingly inter-connected to RL money systems. Why? Because the governments that structure all our lives want their share. If money flows from one person to another, the government that can claim jurisdiction wants their taxes from the receiving person. And at this point at least (and this MAY change, but I don't see it changing for a long time), that jurisdiction is over the citizenship identification of the rl person behind the avatar account.

Now let me be clear. At this point in time, October 2022, rl governments have not ventured into purely in-world, $L configured, transactions. Sales tax, and income reporting from Paypal, are on transactions which interconnect the L$ currency system to the rl currency system. I pay tier to LL in US$s (now plus sales tax), and some residents in SLNE pay tier to me via Paypal in US$s. Governments are looking only so far into the virtual world currency networks.

But let's not kid ourselves, and let's keep that new partnership with JP Morgan clearly in mind. Governments know that many millions of $$s changes hands in virtual worlds... SL being perhaps the least of them. And as I said, LL made a smart move in forming Tilia... they want in to the future exploding business of payments processing in all virtual worlds. It is NOT a very hard stretch of the imagination to consider rl governemnts' attention to transactions on SL Marketplace, or attention to our avatar transaction accounts. RL governments will want a piece of those transactions.

I'm going on about this here, because for our entire existence we have prided ourselves as a democratic community defined entirely within the framework of SL... an entirely "virtual" enterprise. The single anomaly we have faced and never entirely solved is the need to have an avatar account own our sims, with inescapably a rl name behind that account. But that aside, everything else about our community is structured purely within the virtual confines. And, consistent with that, the only money that flows in or out of our treasury in the rl currency system is the tier payments to LL (which of course we are now forced to pay sales tax on... an additional expense).

But I predict that will change. Someday... and these things often happen sooner than we expect... Rudeen Edo's (our Estate Owner account) rl person will be forced to declare the earnings from tier payments to her to the US government for her annual tax filings. This will present huge problems, and basically break our current system for managing our finances. We would have to re-structure.

We have, from time to time over the years, floated the idea of forming as a rl non-profit. This was never moved on for a HUGE batch of reasons, primary of which was our commitment to the "entirely virtual enterprise" noted above. RL non-profits are horrible administrative complexities (please understand... my rl person manages 4 or them and has a career of doing their finances). But a rl non-profit is the shape of what we are... we are a democratic "government" (generally defined as non-profit), or perhaps we are a community "cooperative" (also usually defined as a non-profit). There are other non-profit models that we might fit.

But non-profits incur huge administrative and rl person responsibilities. They must have Boards of rl people. They must file annual filings (basically tax returns with no taxes) in the US at least with the IRS, the state, and sometimes the city governments. I am going to strongly suspect that most CDS community members will be profoundly reluctant to get involved with something like this.

But it would solve our problem going forward. An immediate benefit would be that LL could no longer charge us sales tax. And although we would not have to pay taxes on our income, we would have to begin filing those annual returns. I'm going to leave that whole topic open. It entirely depends on what happens next in our virtual world.

Sudane.................

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Delia Lake
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Re: A "sea change" is coming to CDS, and SL, finances

Post by Delia Lake »

Thank you, Sudane, for laying out the possible changes so clearly. We have a lot to think about and discuss to be prepared should any of these changes come about. It's helpful to know that your rl avatar has nonprofit experience. There may be other CDS citizens who do as well. I hope if they do they will post to this thread as well.

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Rosie Gray
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Re: A "sea change" is coming to CDS, and SL, finances

Post by Rosie Gray »

My experience working for and with non-profits is Canadian, except for one I was a small part of in SL years ago. I remember from that SL experience that it is indeed best to set up the non-profit in the US and that it is a fair amount of work. The persons on the named non-profit need to use their real names (as Sudane mentioned) and the person filing the papers needs to be a US citizen. That's about all I recall. I really do think that it's a good idea for us to form a non-profit as we really operate as one anyway, so why not obtain the advantages of the incorporation?

*edited to add* that if an rl person/name is required I'm happy to assist with mine.

Last edited by Rosie Gray on Thu Oct 27, 2022 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A "sea change" is coming to CDS, and SL, finances

Post by Lilith Ivory »

Sadly I have no experience with Non Profits and I am terrible with numbers and paperwork - but if needed my Typist with her RL name and identity is happy to help :)

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Almut Brunswick
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Re: A "sea change" is coming to CDS, and SL, finances

Post by Almut Brunswick »

Thank you, Sudane, for explaining to us the possible deveolpment, though I must admit that I just partly understood the details. The title "sea change" let me expect something regarding terraforming or moving the sims, but apparently I was wrong :D

I do agree with Rosie that it might be reasonable to establish a RL non-profit organziation in the USA as an "umbrella" to get the benefits, because LL is an US-based enterprize and thus we likely cannot just decide to do that step in Canada, Germany or elsewhere.

In Germany, you can establish clubs that may apply for a status as a non-profit organization. Amongst the criterions to earn such a status is that the club activities aim on one or more purposes of public interest (e. g. political education in a democratic sense). Once the club has got that status approved by the tax authorities (after some paperwork of course), it is freed of taxes. When something like that is possible in the USA as well, then the Linden TOS and the Tilia terms and conditions would need to reflect such a special status, too. Otherwise, it doesn't make sense to establish a RL non-profit organization while the SL counterpart remains as being treated like any other sim in respect on tax-paying.

Almut

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Re: A "sea change" is coming to CDS, and SL, finances

Post by Jerry McNally »

Have any of you heard of Open Collective, registered in Delaware. Sounds like it could be useful.

https://opencollective.com/
Open Collective is a legal and financial toolbox for grassroots groups. It’s a fundraising + legal status + money management platform for your community.

Here's more background.

https://docs.opencollective.com/help/about/introduction
To be able to operate, meetups, open-source projects, parent associations, neighbourhood associations, pet projects, clubs, unions, movements, non-profits, business incubators - all are either forced to use a physical glass jar, asking a sponsor to directly pay for their expenses or front the huge overhead of setting up and managing a corporation or a non-profit. Even if they manage to achieve it in a way that is neither inefficient nor opaque, it is overkill.

This is the problem that Open Collective solves. We enable groups to quickly set up a collective, raise funds and manage them transparently.

And there's a video too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBU5fSILAe8

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Sudane Erato
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Re: A "sea change" is coming to CDS, and SL, finances

Post by Sudane Erato »

Jerry, this Open Collective looks really interesting. I'd never heard of it.

But I explored the website links (didn't look at the Youtube). A project such as ours would need to strike a relationship with one of the Open Collective "hosts", so I explored the two listed as being for US-based projects.

These hosts take hefty fees. The 501(c)3 host, where our purposes would have to fit in with their purposes, takes anywhere from 4 - 8% of all receipts as a fee... all payments have to go to THEM, and then they make disbursements on our behalf. The other host, a 501(c)6 (these numbers refer to different sections of the IRS code), has the same receipt and payment arrangements, but takes 10%.

This info is not at all surprising. The host has to meet the rigid IRS requirements and so must keep careful track of the money in order to comply with annual reporting requirements. The finances of a US non-profit can include both "earned" income and "donated" income, a factor that is not covered in the websites... they assume that all income is donated, while all our income is earned. That might well further complicate a relationship with one of them.

So the fact that they take the hefty fee is not surprising... they are performing a lot of admin in order to sponsor these projects. One of my RL non-profits performed this service for a few years for a related project, and I recall that we took an even higher fee.

Oh well. It's a really interesting service, well worth keeping in mind. I'm not sure it would work for us. But... who knows what will evolve in future years...

Sudane................

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