Covenant Task Force Meeting Log - 7th Nov 2007

[Moon Adamant]

[15:14] You: thanks everyone for showing by, we will be recording this meeting if you all agree
[15:15] Patroklus Murakami: agreed
[15:15] Rose Springvale: of course!
[15:15] Michel Manen: let me take legal advice on that
[15:15] Sonja Strom: agreed
[15:15] Jon Seattle: /em agrees to be recorded
[15:15] Tanoujin Milestone: agreed
[15:15] Michel Manen: ok i agree
[15:15] Yogeswari Padar: i agree
[15:15] Jon Seattle: brb
[15:15] Sonja Strom: ok
[15:15] You: ok, thanks
[15:16] You: as you all have read
[15:16] Brian Livingston: Sounds good
[15:16] You: we have been discussing the alp mead covenants in teh forums
[15:16] You: but it's a slow method of discussion
[15:16] You: seeing that, we have agreed to hold a task force meeting to solve major points
[15:17] Sleazy Writer: (recording is fine)
[15:17] You: the covenants have three distinct parts
[15:17] You: general CDS covenants
[15:17] You: sim wide covenants
[15:17] You: and zone covenants
[15:17] You: as for general CDS covenants, teh discussion in teh forums has agreed more or less with the general covenants, save on the script issue
[15:18] You: nevertheless, in further discussion at last Guild's meetings
[15:18] You: we have more or less arrived to teh conclusion
[15:19] You: that we may not be able to enforce script rules in teh sims, and so perhaps the rules should be changed more to alert/advise people to get low lag scripts than to determine a strict rule that may be uncheckable/unenforceable
[15:19] You: comments on this point?
[15:19] You: and in other points pertaining to general CDS covenants?
[15:19] Rose Springvale: well summarized Moon
[15:19] Sleazy Writer: Yes, that I'd like to hear more about Jon's proposal of allowing 1 open sensor script (and nothing else).
[15:20] Patroklus Murakami: sound idea. better to have guidelines that make the general point if you can't realistically enforce or check a particular rule
[15:20] Michel Manen: i think we should be as flexible as possible rather than impose draconian measures honored more in breach than practice which will give the impression that our covenants are pro forma only
[15:21] Michel Manen: wow i agree with pat!
[15:21] Patroklus Murakami: amazing! who knew?
[15:21] Rose Springvale: perhaps the faculty could do some classes on script... i think one of the issues, at least for me, is that i don't know what is what where scripts are concerned
[15:21] Sleazy Writer: Hi Alexicon
[15:21] Rose Springvale: hi alex!
[15:21] Michel Manen: miracles happen every day
[15:21] Alexicon Kurka: hi everybody
[15:21] Michel Manen: hi alex
[15:21] Tanoujin Milestone: Alex
[15:21] Michel Manen: tks for joining us
[15:21] Patroklus Murakami: hi alex
[15:21] You: hey Alex, permission to record transcript?
[15:22] Alexicon Kurka: its a chanse to hear the ideas that are alive about the new sim
[15:22] Michel Manen: dont give it alex theey'll steal your soul!!
[15:22] Michel Manen: lol j/k sorry
[15:22] Alexicon Kurka: where is the recorder?
[15:22] Brian Livingston: Bwahahaa
[15:22] Jon Seattle: Oh, to clarify one listening (lagging) script, and any number of scripts not listining to channel 0
[15:22] You: no recorder, it spams my mail dreadfully
[15:22] You: i just copy/paste
[15:23] Alexicon Kurka: I give my permission to record trancript
[15:23] Jon Seattle: I can't see the point of restricting non-senseing scripts really.
[15:23] Sleazy Writer: DOn't they ever lag? (texture things?)
[15:23] You: ok, so we have two points of view?
[15:23] Jon Seattle: Well, texture animation happens on the client
[15:24] Jon Seattle: they can certainly lag a LOT if they rez objects however. We need to watch that.
[15:24] Sleazy Writer: I mean moving textures, like water.
[15:24] You: anim_textures don't lag, since they can be removed after setting up
[15:24] Jon Seattle: Moving texture anmation happens on the client
[15:25] Sleazy Writer: Your proposal sounds like it makes the chancellor's life easier. Are there any caveats / pro's / cons ?
[15:25] Alexicon Kurka: is rotation of objects also handled by the client?
[15:25] Tanoujin Milestone: target omega: yes
[15:26] Alexicon Kurka: so only when a timer is involved it would cause lag
[15:26] You: guys, sorry
[15:26] Rose Springvale: my silence is mere oblivion, for the record.. i don't understand this stuff
[15:26] You: what is important here
[15:26] Jon Seattle: Perhaps we need something that will allow the chancellor to remove any really laggy scripts.. in an emergency
[15:26] You: is to know that we have lag scripts and non-lag scripts
[15:26] Sleazy Writer: (J > I think he will do that anyway .. after some warnings .. )
[15:27] You: shall we try and control the lag-scripts? rule them somehow?
[15:27] Rose Springvale: so for covenant purposes, a general clause that says
[15:27] You: i agree that it is pointless to control non-lag scriipts
[15:27] Rose Springvale: the chancellor shall deem in his sole discretion lagging scripts
[15:28] Rose Springvale: though that doesn't sound like coveneant
[15:28] Brian Livingston: I'd say Jon's proposal would do the trick, perhaps wit hteh addition ofa clause permitting the Chancellor to remove scripts that are putting an inordinate strain on the sim
[15:28] Rose Springvale: covenants sounds like "no lagging scripts allowed"
[15:28] Sleazy Writer: The current covenant rule says nothing about lag-scripts .. so it's really the choice between "no rule" (currently) and "a lag-script rule" .. (jon's proposal)
[15:28] Patroklus Murakami: i think a general, easily-understood rule is best. we can't get into scripts/m2 or ms calls. you have to be very 'au fait' with the intricacies of SL to get that stuff
[15:28] Tanoujin Milestone: because it is the general covenant discussed at the moment, i would not change it but use the same rule for AM for now, and find a good solution for all the sims later on
[15:28] Brian Livingston agrees with Pat
[15:28] Rose Springvale: sudane uses general language in SLNE and it seems to work
[15:29] Patroklus Murakami: i agree Tan. let's just fix this first and deal with the general case later
[15:29] You: i would agree with having a cautionary note in the covenant regarding removal of laggy scripts
[15:29] Michel Manen: youp keep it as simple and strightforward as possible
[15:29] Patroklus Murakami: oops
[15:29] You: mind also that a script may not be laggy, needing a touch, but can rezz objects fast and kill the sim
[15:29] Alexicon Kurka: how will the laginess of a script be measured?
[15:29] Rose Springvale: * use of excessive scripts which adversly effect sim performance are not permitted, determination of the same is at the sole discretion of the EO
[15:29] Rose Springvale: that's her language
[15:30] You: sounds good to me
[15:30] Rose Springvale: sub chancellor
[15:30] Brian Livingston: Sounds good
[15:30] Michel Manen: any possible appeal from that?
[15:30] Brian Livingston: And Alex, I'd say that's teh discretion of the Chancelor, with appeal possible to the SC I'd assume if worst comes to worst
[15:30] Michel Manen: good tks
[15:30] You: hmmm Michel
[15:30] Alexicon Kurka: I have a question, who or how will determine that a sript is laggy?
[15:30] You: yes, i believe Brian is right
[15:30] Brian Livingston: The Chancellor
[15:31] You: The chancellor then
[15:31] Michel Manen: yes il lgo with brian
[15:31] You: using the estate tools
[15:31] Sleazy Writer: So what Sudane does in SLNE is just a warning .. not any guidance or strict rule
[15:31] Michel Manen: yup
[15:31] Rose Springvale: no
[15:31] Michel Manen: no?
[15:31] Rose Springvale: actually i think it gives the right to change. not just warn
[15:31] Sleazy Writer: that too yes
[15:31] Michel Manen: yes
[15:31] You: sub-implied, yes
[15:32] Michel Manen: as long as theyre anappeal im fine
[15:32] Rose Springvale: i like the language... for two reasons
[15:32] Rose Springvale: one
[15:32] Rose Springvale: i think most people are like me.. clueless with scripts
[15:32] Rose Springvale: two
[15:32] Rose Springvale: as the client evolves, we may see things develop that don't fit our "rule"
[15:32] Rose Springvale: so this leaves some room for adaptation
[15:32] You: ok
[15:33] You: so are we happy with a modification of SLNE language that defines better the acting role of teh Chancellor in this ?
[15:33] Alexicon Kurka: Behavior of some scripts vary per update
[15:33] Rose Springvale: yes i am, Moon
[15:33] Brian Livingston: Indeed
[15:33] Rose Springvale: pokes group
[15:34] Alexicon Kurka: at the moment the rpc behevior deteriorates
[15:34] Michel Manen: with apeal to the judiciary as vested in the SC
[15:34] Sleazy Writer: I prefer Jon's solution - illustrated with a couple of clear examples
[15:34] You: just say 'yes' or 'no'
[15:34] Sleazy Writer: no
[15:34] Michel Manen: yes
[15:34] You: yes, Michel is right, the mention of appeal must be there too
[15:34] Michel Manen: tks moon
[15:35] Jon Seattle: Yes
[15:35] Patroklus Murakami: i'm happy with that. yes from me too
[15:35] Rose Springvale: i'd suggest, given it is a democracy, a general covenant with appeal provisions for all issues of dispute?
[15:35] You: i am happy with that as well, yes
[15:35] Michel Manen: tyes
[15:36] Michel Manen: in that case
[15:36] You: Rose, not sure if that isn't already under Exec Branch Act, but we can check and if need be incorporate
[15:36] Rose Springvale: i agree moon,... my point being if we want it in covenants, we'll find it in other places too.. i just hate long documents
[15:37] You: hmmm, is it passed?
[15:37] Michel Manen: ok lets agree to the principle and then we'll worry about hte drafting
[15:37] Moon Adamant counts
[15:37] Michel Manen: yes
[15:37] Rose Springvale: so rather than repeating over and over... one tidy little line.. .Appeals of chancellor decisions will be per the Exec Branch Act.
[15:37] Michel Manen: brb
[15:38] You: i need a sec to count votes
[15:38] Rose Springvale: tan yog and sonja didn't vote i don't think
[15:38] Tanoujin Milestone: i abstain..
[15:38] Sonja Strom: i abstain also.
[15:38] You: yes, i am trying to track down who didn't vote
[15:38] Sleazy Writer: Alexicon?
[15:38] Rose Springvale: alex did you?
[15:38] Yogeswari Padar: i abstain... i don't know enough about this stuff to cast a vote, i'm just here to listen and learn
[15:38] Alexicon Kurka: may I vote?
[15:38] You: sure!
[15:39] Alexicon Kurka: no
[15:39] Rose Springvale: of course! that's what you pay for!
[15:39] Rose Springvale: grr
[15:39] You: we're an informal group lol
[15:39] Rose Springvale: no you can't vote lol
[15:39] You: lol
[15:39] Alexicon Kurka:
[15:39] You: ok, thanks
[15:39] Alexicon Kurka: me too
[15:39] You: more points for general CDS covenants?
[15:39] Alexicon Kurka: its my first time to vote
[15:39] Sleazy Writer: yes .. one no-brainer
[15:39] Sonja Strom: yay!
[15:39] Sleazy Writer: "No floating, particle emitting, or rotating signs are permitted" ... it's in the NFS & CN covenants. .. but let's make it CDS-wide
[15:39] You: i agree with that
[15:40] Sonja Strom: aye
[15:40] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[15:40] You: but would like to make a suggestion towards language
[15:40] Alexicon Kurka: aye
[15:40] Sleazy Writer: okay let's hold the votes until we have the new language
[15:40] You: because this afternoon i thought for a few minute that it was barring particle scripts in general
[15:40] You: so i would suggest hmmm
[15:40] You: "Exterior signs are permitted, unless they be floating, particle emitting, or rotating."
[15:41] You: allowed*
[15:41] Sonja Strom: to me it describes a particle emitting sign.
[15:41] Rose Springvale: * particles can only be used in effects that have real-world analogies, such as leaves, bonfires, fires and smoke.
[15:41] Rose Springvale: that is sudanes lol
[15:41] Rose Springvale: i have others too, but her's are succinct
[15:41] Sleazy Writer: Rose > Yes we have that too (in NFS covenant)
[15:41] You: and besides, we only need to rule exterior signs
[15:41] Rose Springvale: kk
[15:42] Sleazy Writer: aye to Moon's new text
[15:42] Tanoujin Milestone: yes, nice language, aye
[15:42] Sonja Strom: aye
[15:42] Alexicon Kurka: I agree with mentioning the exterior explicitely
[15:42] Patroklus Murakami: aye to moon's text
[15:42] Rose Springvale: yes
[15:42] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[15:42] You: yes, obviously
[15:43] Jon Seattle: yes
[15:43] Brian Livingston: okee
[15:43] You: 8 votes, passed
[15:44] Rose Springvale: what was the count on the script one?
[15:44] You: uh
[15:44] Moon Adamant scrolls back
[15:44] Sonja Strom: i believe 5/3/0
[15:44] Rose Springvale: thks
[15:45] Sonja Strom: no, i am incorrect, sorry!
[15:45] Sonja Strom: At least Sleazy was no.
[15:45] Rose Springvale: sleazy and alex and...?
[15:46] You: votes for script article:
[15:46] Sonja Strom is afraid to say anything now.
[15:46] You: 6 ayes, 2 nays, 3 abstentions
[15:46] Sonja Strom: Yes, I think that is correct.
[15:46] You: hard to count votes in middle of chat
[15:46] You: ok
[15:46] Sonja Strom: yes...
[15:47] Tanoujin Milestone: i suggest we vote nexttime without interruption
[15:47] You: let's have a look now at sim-wide covenants
[15:47] Tanoujin Milestone: when we are called
[15:47] You: yes, please lol
[15:47] You: also, if someone cares to recheck votes, please do
[15:47] Rose Springvale sits on hands
[15:47] You: for consideration in sim-wide covenants hmmm
[15:47] Sonja Strom also sits on hands
[15:48] Moon Adamant looks at her notes
[15:48] You: teleportation
[15:48] You: skyboxes
[15:48] You: residential and commercial function
[15:48] You: zones
[15:48] You: typologies
[15:48] You: materials
[15:48] You: let's start with teleportation
[15:49] You: option here is between direct tp and central tp
[15:49] Jon Seattle badly needs tp ability in RL
[15:49] Sonja Strom: exactly!
[15:49] You: i will state imemdiately my opinion, because i have already posted it at the forums
[15:49] Sonja Strom needs flying capability in RL.
[15:49] Alexicon Kurka would love to direct tp in RL
[15:49] You: i prefer direct tp for AM, but with a default telehub at the monastery plot
[15:50] You: more opinions?
[15:50] Sleazy Writer: not from me
[15:50] Rose Springvale: i agree with direct tp.. but
[15:50] Sonja Strom: That sounds good.
[15:50] Rose Springvale: why monastery?
[15:50] You: yes?
[15:50] You: ah
[15:50] Tanoujin Milestone: seconded (and teach me how to set that for CN please another day)
[15:50] You: it has a central area
[15:50] Rose Springvale: had hoped we would be able to have a central recreation focus
[15:50] You: the cloister
[15:51] You: well, ok to that, but in that not being defined yet
[15:51] Rose Springvale: hmm
[15:51] Sonja Strom: An open area would also be an option.
[15:51] You: actually, hubs can change locations
[15:51] Sonja Strom: Is there a meadow?
[15:51] You: very easily
[15:51] Sleazy Writer: (Between BS2 and Monastery would be a nice spot)
[15:51] You: so the default hub can be moved around to where it is more useful, depending on what is happening at the sim
[15:51] Jon Seattle: I tend to like a crossroads that is centrally located
[15:52] Sonja Strom: Outside of the Monastery might be more friendly than inside.
[15:52] Brian Livingston: I vote yes for direct TP for AM with a centralzied Hub somewhere
[15:52] Michel Manen: sorry will there be a central hub with no possibility of tps anyehere else?
[15:52] Rose Springvale: i agree brian
[15:52] Brian Livingston: Oh, hehe, jumped teh gun
[15:52] You: lol, i agree with Brian
[15:52] Sonja Strom: Then if visitors want to go there, of course they can.
[15:53] You: no, Michel, direct TP but witha default hub, so that we don't land all teh time in Drax's house
[15:53] Tanoujin Milestone: no, Michel, direct TP and a default hub
[15:53] Sonja Strom: How steep will that area be?
[15:53] Michel Manen: super
[15:53] Brian Livingston has Covenant Fever!
[15:53] Rose Springvale: we may see when we get the sim, a perfect place
[15:53] You: the bS2 stretch of road? pretty steep
[15:53] You: generally speaking, all roads going north-south are steep
[15:53] Michel Manen: A Place of Greater Safety
[15:53] Sonja Strom: It would not be good if visitors TP'ed in and then began to run!
[15:53] Brian Livingston: or tumble down the hill
[15:53] Sonja Strom: ahh!!!
[15:54] Rose Springvale: or slide!
[15:54] Rose Springvale: if it is snowy!
[15:54] Alexicon Kurka: most important I think is to have some welcoming information at the hub
[15:54] Brian Livingston: Althoguh I imagine that would be a source of entetainment for locals, sitting on a bench and watching visitors fall
[15:54] Michel Manen: yes!
[15:54] Michel Manen: wewlcome to our mountain! see u downhill
[15:54] Rose Springvale: Alex, i'd like your ideas on that
[15:54] You: ok, i propose that we vote on Brian's suggestion
[15:54] Sonja Strom: good point!
[15:54] Brian Livingston: I had a suggestion?
[15:54] You: anyone second?
[15:54] Alexicon Kurka: I agree with brian
[15:54] Brian Livingston: Hehe
[15:54] You: yes
[15:54] Sonja Strom: its an idea...
[15:54] Rose Springvale: we can't talk once we start voting
[15:54] Michel Manen: lol
[15:55] Michel Manen: aye
[15:55] Rose Springvale: second for the record, and yes
[15:55] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[15:55] Brian Livingston: aye
[15:55] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[15:55] Alexicon Kurka: aye
[15:55] Sleazy Writer: abstain
[15:55] You: aye
[15:55] Jon Seattle: aye
[15:55] Sonja Strom: what is it we are voting on, exactly?
[15:55] Alexicon Kurka: lol
[15:56] You: Sonja: Brian Livingston: I vote yes for direct TP for AM with a centralzied Hub somewhere
[15:56] Tanoujin Milestone: direct tp and a default hub "somewhere"
[15:56] Michel Manen: what brian said lol
[15:56] Sonja Strom: aye to what Brian said. : - )
[15:56] Jon Seattle: Preferably the hub in the same sim
[15:56] You: 8 votes, passed
[15:56] Rose Springvale: lol jon!
[15:56] Brian Livingston: lol, now you're getting picky Jon
[15:56] Michel Manen: LOL!
[15:57] Rose Springvale: i think we should have the default in Dnate's house lol
[15:57] You: ok
[15:57] Sonja Strom: aye
[15:57] You: skyboxes
[15:57] Michel Manen: no thats cruek and unsual punishment
[15:57] Sleazy Writer: wb Pat
[15:57] You: are they allowed? minimal height? over all plots?
[15:57] You: wb Pat
[15:57] Patroklus Murakami: crashed 'aye' need to go now in any case. goodnight all
[15:58] Rose Springvale: night pat!
[15:58] You: night Pat, sleep well
[15:58] Alexicon Kurka: bye Pat
[15:58] Sonja Strom: bye
[15:58] Jon Seattle: Goodnight Pat
[15:58] Tanoujin Milestone: bye Pat
[15:58] Yogeswari Padar: goodnight pat
[15:58] Brian Livingston: I'd say at least 400m above the land height
[15:58] Brian Livingston: if at all
[15:58] Rose Springvale: i like skyboxes, but i don't want to see them, evern from the top of the mountain..i'd go at lesat 600 m
[15:58] Alexicon Kurka: why so high Brian?
[15:58] Sonja Strom: Personally, I have a strong concern if they would be seen under normal circumstances.
[15:58] Sleazy Writer: Sonja's land is 170 m ?
[15:58] You: yes, but mind that with such a high slope, i would prefer a definite height
[15:59] Rose Springvale: brb
[15:59] Alexicon Kurka: what is the highest point of the sim?
[15:59] Sleazy Writer: 170 m + 320 m (visibility setting) = below 512 .. so 512 seems good
[15:59] Brian Livingston: True, as then you might be able to see them, so perhaps at 600. Building is virtually impossible above 700, right?
[15:59] You: 148 m is the intersection of NFS road
[15:59] You: there are bits that are higher, but nothing built there and almost no access
[16:00] You: and yes, Brian
[16:00] Alexicon Kurka: so 500 is not visible I suppose
[16:00] You: in theory
[16:00] Sleazy Writer: Few people have 320 m as visibility setting .. so almost no one will see the skyboxes from Sonja's land on the city wall.
[16:00] Sonja Strom: could it be altered later?
[16:00] Alexicon Kurka: we could restrict the maximum dimensions of skyboxes as they appear on the map
[16:00] Sonja Strom: or does the final decision have to be made now?
[16:00] You: for a 256 draw distance, 500 m is not visible
[16:00] Tanoujin Milestone: they dont appear above 512
[16:01] Tanoujin Milestone: on the map....
[16:01] You: in the map, you say, Tan?
[16:01] Alexicon Kurka: so 512 sounds like the magic number
[16:01] You: ok
[16:01] Brian Livingston: 525?
[16:01] Brian Livingston: nice roundish number?
[16:01] Tanoujin Milestone: i am not sure if the number is right, but the otherland covenant is set to make them invisible on map
[16:01] You: and Sonja, the final decision better be made now
[16:01] Sonja Strom: ok
[16:02] Sleazy Writer: The 'letters on the map' are wayy below 512 I think
[16:02] You: so not to trouble people later asking them to move it higher
[16:02] Jon Seattle: Well, 512 is the magic number for computer science people = 2 to the 9th power
[16:02] Sonja Strom: I have a question also.
[16:02] You: ok, Sonja?
[16:02] Sonja Strom: How does the ownership happen?
[16:02] Sonja Strom: Do they own land underneath?
[16:02] You: inside the parcel print
[16:02] You: yes
[16:03] Sonja Strom: Do they use those allowed prims?
[16:03] You: each plot has a hmm 'invisible border' that goes this tall
[16:03] Sonja Strom: good to know.
[16:03] You: yes, it counts for the parcel prim count
[16:03] You: ok
[16:04] Sonja Strom: then, i don't understand exactly...
[16:04] You: let me call a vote then on skyboxes at 512 m high?
[16:04] You: yes, sonja?
[16:04] Sonja Strom: what is the interest in having a skybox instead of a house on the ground.
[16:04] Sonja Strom: ?
[16:04] You: well, it can be a private sandbox
[16:04] Sonja Strom: oh
[16:04] Alexicon Kurka: I love emtyness when building
[16:04] Sleazy Writer: or you can build something that's not physically plausible ..
[16:04] You: indeed Sleazy
[16:05] Sleazy Writer: a sandbox (if you're nice to neighbours like Rose)
[16:05] You: so you can have a cottage «on teh grounds and a spaceship above
[16:05] Sonja Strom: ok, i see.
[16:05] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[16:05] You: ok, can we vote on 512 m for skybox height?
[16:05] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[16:05] Sleazy Writer: aye
[16:05] Sonja Strom: aye
[16:05] Jon Seattle: Someone built Serenity (not in the CDS though..)
[16:06] Alexicon Kurka: aye
[16:06] Rose Springvale: aye
[16:06] Brian Livingston: brb
[16:06] Jon Seattle: aye
[16:06] You: aye
[16:06] Brian Livingston: aye
[16:06] You: hmmm, we're 10 now, so passed at 6 votes
[16:07] Sonja Strom: What is Serenity?
[16:07] You: ok guys
[16:07] You: commercial function
[16:07] Tanoujin Milestone: the map visibility line seems to be around 400m altitude, we are save then. so, skyboxes allowed above all parcels?
[16:07] You: ah yes, Tan is right
[16:07] You: sorry
[16:07] Tanoujin Milestone: ups, sorry ,next point
[16:07] Jon Seattle: The spaceship from "Firefly", a very good western / science fiction series once on TV
[16:07] You: no no
[16:08] You: you're right
[16:08] You: skyboxes pover all parcels?
[16:08] Sonja Strom: ok
[16:08] You: except commons, of course?
[16:08] Sleazy Writer: let's vote
[16:08] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[16:08] Sleazy Writer: aye
[16:08] Alexicon Kurka: aye )
[16:08] Jon Seattle: sure
[16:08] Michel Manen: aye
[16:08] Brian Livingston: aye
[16:08] Sonja Strom: This is to allow skyboxes above all parcels?
[16:09] You: aye
[16:09] Rose Springvale: aye
[16:09] You: yes, Sonja
[16:09] Sonja Strom: aye
[16:09] You: passed
[16:09] Rose Springvale: wow! we are cooking!
[16:09] You: ok, now it is commercial function
[16:09] Sonja Strom: : - )
[16:10] Rose Springvale: what does the nfs covenant say?
[16:10] You: are we allowing it at same time with a primarily residential function?
[16:10] Michel Manen: well
[16:10] You: hmmm, have to see, but i think it separates by zones
[16:10] Michel Manen: as long as the outside look is respected what is inside should not be restricted
[16:11] Brian Livingston agrees with Michel
[16:11] Michel Manen: i sont think we should look beyond the front doors
[16:11] Sleazy Writer: With direct TP there shouldn't be much need for advertising
[16:11] Rose Springvale: hmm, i'd still like it to maintain it's agrarian theme
[16:11] Michel Manen: sure
[16:11] Michel Manen: on the outside
[16:11] You: NFS defines by zones
[16:11] Tanoujin Milestone: i think marketplatz stresses commercial function, inside walls allows it, valley i dont know...
[16:11] Michel Manen: but if someone wants to sell hatsstands inside..
[16:11] Michel Manen: why not?
[16:11] Brian Livingston: I'm not aware of a restriction on it in NFS
[16:11] Sonja Strom: Could you give an example of what a store would look like in those conditions?
[16:12] You: Brian, Zone O in NFS doesn't allow commercial
[16:12] Michel Manen: it could be an approved build with a discrete sign on it
[16:12] Brian Livingston: Oh, nm then
[16:12] Sonja Strom: ok
[16:12] You: i agree with michel that the character of the sim should be respected
[16:13] Brian Livingston would love to see a farm stand of sorts
[16:13] Rose Springvale: me too brian, and a vineyard
[16:13] Sonja Strom: yes!!
[16:13] You: Brian, i was just thinking that people could sell trees and plants
[16:13] Sonja Strom: especially by the Monastery.
[16:13] Rose Springvale: vegetables!
[16:13] Rose Springvale: delia has those
[16:13] You: and that would be in character, if tehy kept the tropicals in a conservatory
[16:13] Tanoujin Milestone: horse meat, right sleazy?
[16:14] Sleazy Writer: heheh
[16:14] Sleazy Writer: it's rural
[16:14] Rose Springvale: butcher, baker, candlestick maker...
[16:14] Rose Springvale: but what about .. parts for Serenity?
[16:14] Rose Springvale: or..
[16:14] Sonja Strom: yes, the repair station...
[16:14] You: ehehe, those would have to go inside the barn
[16:14] Sonja Strom: the garage...
[16:15] Rose Springvale: well, so long as it's in theme, i think it might be fun to have commercial through out
[16:15] Rose Springvale: give people a reason to wander
[16:15] Michel Manen: agreed
[16:15] Sonja Strom: i agree
[16:15] You: so hmmm
[16:15] You: what about
[16:16] Sleazy Writer: Do we need any extra text to 'preserve the theme'?
[16:16] Alexicon Kurka: I would prefer a small commercial center without restrictions in the products
[16:16] Jon Seattle: Sonja, you are defying the physical space metaphor a bit
[16:16] You: 'though primary function is residential, commercial function is allowed if
[16:16] Alexicon Kurka: than allowing everywhere commerce with a lot of restrictions
[16:16] Rose Springvale: well
[16:16] Rose Springvale: i'd rather see it more encouraging
[16:17] Rose Springvale: Agrarian functions ..
[16:17] Rose Springvale: hmm
[16:17] You: ' falling with the theme of the sim, or, failing that, be kept in interior spaces'
[16:17] Tanoujin Milestone: Moon Adamant: 'though primary function is residential, commercial function is allowed if falling with the theme of the sim, or, failing that, be kept in interior spaces
[16:17] You: thanks Tan )
[16:17] Tanoujin Milestone:
[16:17] Rose Springvale: i'd strike the first phrase
[16:17] Alexicon Kurka: ok I agree with this formulation
[16:17] Sleazy Writer: I agree with Rose
[16:17] Rose Springvale: "though primarily residential
[16:18] Rose Springvale: just allow it
[16:18] You: hmmm, ok
[16:18] You: i accept your amend
[16:18] You: so votes please on
[16:18] Jon Seattle: makes sense
[16:18] You: commercial function is allowed if falling with the theme of the sim, or, failing that, be kept in interior spaces
[16:18] Michel Manen: sorry ineed to run
[16:18] Rose Springvale: that works for me
[16:18] Sonja Strom: bye michel
[16:18] Sleazy Writer: bye Michel
[16:19] Yogeswari Padar: bye michel
[16:19] Alexicon Kurka: bye michel
[16:19] Sleazy Writer: "falling with the theme" sounds a bit odd to me (as a non-native speaker ..)
[16:19] Jon Seattle: Bye Michel
[16:19] Tanoujin Milestone: gone like a flash
[16:19] Brian Livingston: The structures still falling within the sim theme?
[16:19] Rose Springvale: yes, brian!
[16:19] Sleazy Writer: that sounds better
[16:19] You: yes, Brian
[16:19] Jon Seattle: within is better
[16:19] Brian Livingston: It was a little ambiguous
[16:20] Rose Springvale: oh, i figured we'd clean it up a bit when we sit down to edit
[16:20] Brian Livingston: I suppose bui.lding typologies come into play later on when we get to plot types, correct?
[16:20] You: yes lol
[16:20] Brian Livingston: Ok, then sorry. Aye!
[16:20] Rose Springvale: are we voting?
[16:20] You: yes lol
[16:20] Sleazy Writer: Okay so the new text is : "commercial function is allowed if falling within the theme of the sim, or, failing that, be kept in interior spaces"
[16:20] You: please vote on Sleazy's version
[16:20] Sleazy Writer: aye
[16:20] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[16:20] Rose Springvale: aye
[16:21] You: aye
[16:21] Brian Livingston: aye
[16:21] Alexicon Kurka: aye
[16:21] Sonja Strom: aye
[16:21] Sleazy Writer: gold medal for everyone
[16:21] You: passed
[16:21] You: ok
[16:21] Moon Adamant checks notes
[16:21] Sonja Strom wants a silver medal instead.
[16:21] Alexicon Kurka: are the zones defined?
[16:21] You: in a sec, Alex
[16:21] Jon Seattle: aye
[16:21] Tanoujin Milestone: WE are still on the sim wide, but getting there, i hope
[16:21] Jon Seattle: is too late.
[16:21] You: i don't think we need to discuss plausability of the ground sctructures
[16:22] Sleazy Writer: no
[16:22] You: ok, let's discuss Zones then
[16:22] Rose Springvale: thisis an action committee jon lol
[16:22] You: yup, you guys are only leaving when we sort this through
[16:22] You: i hope you brought your camping bags
[16:22] Brian Livingston: Lockdown the Sim!
[16:22] Sleazy Writer: yes - stay put please
[16:22] Sonja Strom: do we get paid?
[16:23] Tanoujin Milestone: ah, Moon, Trees, Textures, Materials: under Zones?
[16:23] Rose Springvale: sure sonja.. hehehe
[16:23] Sonja Strom: L$4 for 15 minutes?
[16:23] Rose Springvale: lol
[16:23] Alexicon Kurka: so I need serious defense systems when attending a meeting
[16:23] Rose Springvale: inflation!
[16:23] You: ok
[16:23] You: Materials is wide too
[16:23] You: let's discuss that now
[16:23] Sonja Strom: ok, ok L$2 / 15 minutes.
[16:23] Sonja Strom: : - )
[16:23] You: i propose the CN formulation here:
[16:24] You: 'All materials must be pre-industrial'
[16:24] Rose Springvale: is that what NFS has though?
[16:24] You: and then to refine that if need be at each zone
[16:24] You: NFS doesn't define materials
[16:24] Rose Springvale: hmm
[16:24] You: (i remember that from writing teh CN covenants)´
[16:24] Tanoujin Milestone: NFS has this bauhaus contrast theme, ROse
[16:24] Rose Springvale: does the monastery have glass?
[16:24] Sleazy Writer: (NFS talks about bavarian-ness)
[16:25] You: ah, glass is pre-industrial, if you suggest that large panes of glass must have adequate framing
[16:25] Alexicon Kurka: I like the CN formulation
[16:25] Sleazy Writer: Glass is pre-industrial .. just not large pieces of it
[16:25] Rose Springvale: i remember when building my office that the pre industiral gave me fits
[16:25] You: like these windows here
[16:25] You: tehy're huge
[16:25] Rose Springvale: kk... so this structure would be okay?
[16:26] Sonja Strom: but made of small pieces.
[16:26] You: but they have the partitioning, like a chapel's hmmm lacking word
[16:26] Rose Springvale: panes?
[16:26] You: yes, could be
[16:26] You: coloured glass
[16:26] You: really lacking teh word
[16:26] Rose Springvale: yes, i understand... stained glass
[16:26] You: stainglass
[16:26] You:
[16:26] You: thanks )
[16:27] Rose Springvale: yw :0
[16:27] Rose Springvale:
[16:27] Rose Springvale: but is this building pre industrial?
[16:27] Tanoujin Milestone: bukk's eye pane?
[16:27] You: yes
[16:27] Sonja Strom: I would say so.
[16:27] Tanoujin Milestone: ah,, k
[16:27] Rose Springvale: okay ..then that's fine
[16:27] Sonja Strom: middle ages.
[16:27] You: well, a tad neogothic, but yes, the feel is pre-industrial
[16:27] Rose Springvale: wb michel
[16:27] Michel Manen: tks
[16:27] Sleazy Writer: wb
[16:27] You: i just want to avoid concrete, etc
[16:28] Sonja Strom: yes, moon seems right.
[16:28] Rose Springvale: i think the whole idea of AM is transitions
[16:28] You: wb Michel
[16:28] Rose Springvale: so as long as it's between 40 bce and whatever century NFS is..
[16:28] You: yes, but it's transitions between roman and neo-gothic
[16:28] Michel Manen: 16th?
[16:28] You: exactly Rose
[16:28] Michel Manen: lol
[16:28] Rose Springvale: the question is
[16:29] Alexicon Kurka: its a wider range than the other two sims
[16:29] Rose Springvale: do we want to limit the NFS side of AM to NFS century builds, and CN to CN centure?
[16:29] You: my motion here is: though i love Lloyd Wright's Fallingwater, i don't want it in middle of AM
[16:29] You: ah, that's for zones proper lol
[16:29] Michel Manen: no
[16:29] Rose Springvale: yes...
[16:29] Rose Springvale: sorry. sits on hands again
[16:30] Rose Springvale: that's not a motion btw lol
[16:30] Michel Manen: sorry i meant i dont agree to split it architecturally in the parts
[16:30] You: here we are just discussing a general clause to cover all possibilities that we won't touch at the zones' materials, if any
[16:30] Michel Manen: three
[16:30] Alexicon Kurka: I think that such a wide range is unappropriate
[16:30] Alexicon Kurka: we should narrow it somehow
[16:30] Rose Springvale: well Alex...
[16:30] Rose Springvale: i disagree
[16:30] Michel Manen: k
[16:30] You: Alex, on the zones' discussion
[16:30] Rose Springvale: because when i go to the alps
[16:30] Michel Manen: it happens
[16:30] Rose Springvale: there is a lot of diversity
[16:31] You: let me give you an example
[16:31] You: we will define, say, roofs, walls, etc
[16:31] You: but maybe we won't define statues
[16:31] You: (say)
[16:31] You: so imagine that soemone wants to put a plexiglass statue in teh garden
[16:31] You: we have then a general clause regulating that
[16:32] Alexicon Kurka: in reality the mix is done sometimes on a building level and not in zones
[16:32] You: mind that in any case, a waiver can be asked to the Chancellor
[16:32] Sonja Strom: is it possible for us to determine a desired cultural approach?
[16:32] You: hmmm
[16:32] You: well, let me jump then
[16:33] Alexicon Kurka: there are less older buildings than newer ones for example
[16:33] You: to my definition of zones, and quote from there
[16:33] You: mind that Sleazy and Tan also have a proposal for zones, which falls roughly on same limits
[16:33] You: if you look at the plan on the ground
[16:33] You: you will see that the plots are identified by a key XY0
[16:34] Alexicon Kurka: yes I see some small zones indeed
[16:34] You: X relates to the plot types in Jon/Dnate proposal
[16:34] You: Y relates to zone
[16:34] You: 0 is the number of parcel
[16:34] Sonja Strom: sorry, i don't see the XYO
[16:34] Sonja Strom: in the map on the floor?
[16:34] You: at each plot, Sonja, the string identifying it
[16:34] Sleazy Writer: she means 2 letters and a number
[16:35] You: yes
[16:35] Sonja Strom: ah, OK
[16:35] Sonja Strom: i see it.
[16:35] You: ok, so A B C D are plot types
[16:35] You: U S H and Zone M are zones
[16:35] You: U is Urban Core, and is nearer to CN
[16:36] You: S is Slope, up to Monastery level
[16:36] You: H is High Plots, nearer to NFS
[16:36] You: Monastery has its own zone, M
[16:36] You: and teh public space is Commons - C
[16:36] Alexicon Kurka: thanks for explaining
[16:36] Tanoujin Milestone: clever thanks, Moon
[16:36] Rose Springvale: i'm sorry i didn't get back today to see posts.. urban?
[16:37] Rose Springvale: why do meadows and farms have any urban core? i thought we covered that
[16:37] You: oh Rose, it's just a handy expression
[16:37] Sleazy Writer: Moon, please explain why you see a need for 3 zones (and a M)
[16:37] Sleazy Writer: instead of just 2
[16:37] You: translating directl from portuguese
[16:37] Rose Springvale: hmm
[16:37] You: i can change it to Village or Lower Plots
[16:37] Rose Springvale: anything but urban, as tha tis the opposite of the intent
[16:38] Brian Livingston: Or change H to something else and make those H for Hamlet
[16:38] You: ok, i'll change that
[16:38] Brian Livingston: Or Village, that works as well
[16:38] You: good thinking Brian
[16:38] You: Sleazy
[16:39] You: three zones allow me to have a more roman area and a more fachwerk area, with something in between
[16:39] Sleazy Writer: I think we can safely leave the plots as they are and not call it 'urban'
[16:39] Sleazy Writer: V for village seems okay
[16:39] Rose Springvale: i think that is a good plan Moon
[16:39] You: and to answer Alex's question
[16:40] You: i had defined for the Village
[16:40] You: quoting:
[16:40] You: Buildings in this zone can incorporate classical elements such as columns, entablatures and pediments in their design.
[16:41] You: as for materials, an example
[16:41] You: Roofing elements must be terracota tile or terracota shingles
[16:41] You: in the village
[16:41] You: since CN only has terracota roofs
[16:41] You: but as you go up the slope in CN
[16:41] You: AM* sorry
[16:41] Rose Springvale: no thatch?
[16:41] Sonja Strom: wood?
[16:41] You: you are allowed shingles in other materials, thatch, etc
[16:42] Rose Springvale: hmm
[16:42] Rose Springvale: as this area adjoins the part of CH without the terracotta..
[16:42] Rose Springvale: i'm curious about that
[16:42] Tanoujin Milestone: so the u (that is V) zone adapts to cn
[16:42] Alexicon Kurka: mmm I see there is a lot of though put in this plan
[16:42] Sonja Strom: this Village will be at the edge of the town in CN, or?
[16:42] You: yes, Village meets CN
[16:42] Rose Springvale: behind my office and along there Sonja
[16:42] Sleazy Writer: The Italian alpine houses form sonja's pictures had terracotta (though darker than CN)
[16:42] Rose Springvale: on the other side of the river
[16:43] Rose Springvale: my office is neo classical though.. no terracotta
[16:43] You: but all of CN has terracota, excepting that bit
[16:43] Alexicon Kurka: so the village will be a suburb outside the walls of CN
[16:43] Rose Springvale: and i'm thinking of the other structures
[16:43] Rose Springvale: along that strip.. no terracotta
[16:43] Rose Springvale: we'll be the eyesore in the middle of the roman town
[16:44] Rose Springvale: shouldn't it be similar to the zone at the CN edge?
[16:44] You: so you preserve a continuity, even if you have exceptions
[16:44] You: ah Rose
[16:44] You: but you see
[16:44] You: that zone at CN has a completely free covenant
[16:44] Rose Springvale: lol sooo....
[16:44] You: you guys built all of you in theme
[16:45] Sonja Strom: what, for example, if someone wanted a barn?
[16:45] You: well, this is actually a complex matter
[16:45] You: of course i can't preview that the river area at CN will keep its classic look
[16:45] Rose Springvale: hmm, i really thought we had to !
[16:46] You: but i am judging from the fact that it has done so in more than one year
[16:46] Michel Manen: well
[16:46] You: and Sonja, i don't disallow barns
[16:46] Michel Manen: the cross river area is in barbarian germania and the building codes are more relax from what i remember
[16:46] Sonja Strom: so it would have an exception, perhaps?
[16:46] You: what i am saying is that if the resident wants, he can use classical elements
[16:47] Rose Springvale: i'm confused
[16:47] You: (hopefully in a point manner)
[16:47] Sonja Strom: yes
[16:47] Sonja Strom: i believe most people would be sensitive to make their buildings fit the others in the theme...
[16:48] Sonja Strom: Naturally, the problem might be those few who would want something completely different from them.
[16:48] Rose Springvale: that is the point of covenants.. they dont' need to build here lol
[16:48] Sonja Strom: Star Wars comes to mind.
[16:48] You: lol, yes
[16:48] Alexicon Kurka: I like the clause about classical elements is as dangerous as hopeful, diversity comes with a risc
[16:49] You: Alex is right
[16:49] You: sad but true
[16:49] Sonja Strom: yes, exceptions can always be allowed later.
[16:49] Sleazy Writer: Alexicon: are you proposing to use a CN text for the 3rd sim?
[16:49] Sleazy Writer: or: for the CN -side of the 3rd sim?
[16:49] You: there is an alternative, mind
[16:49] Rose Springvale: wait.. there are lots of themed sims...
[16:50] You: and that is doing a covenant that is more similar to NFS valley
[16:50] Rose Springvale: what is that?
[16:50] You: which is very little restrictive in terms of appearance
[16:50] You: let me see the wording
[16:51] Sleazy Writer: (Btw Rose > terracotta doesn't need to be red .. it can be shades of brown as well .. which look more rural)
[16:51] Rose Springvale:
[16:51] You: hmmm this NFS covenant isn't update
[16:51] Sonja Strom: it is complex...
[16:51] Rose Springvale: i like wood and thatch in the country too though
[16:52] You: i am sure that the O region in NFS states something to the effect that buildings must look germanic
[16:52] Tanoujin Milestone: the wiki one is valid, are you on th nfs info covenant?
[16:52] Tanoujin Milestone: they are different
[16:52] You: i am at http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-ind ... d+Covenant
[16:52] Alexicon Kurka: Sleazy no I wouldnt use the Cn formulation, it would make the wide range even more difficult to bridge
[16:52] Sonja Strom: is it the Villa Quarter?
[16:52] Sleazy Writer: (terracotta , but very rural : http://www.tuscanyumbria.com/images/hol ... zaapt2.jpg )
[16:53] Rose Springvale: hmm
[16:53] You: i am sure the NFS covenant says that, because we thought on that a lot when building Diderot's house
[16:53] Jon Seattle: The valley covenent was weakened.. it was much more strict before the change
[16:53] Rose Springvale: point of clarification?
[16:53] Michel Manen: yes counsellor? grins
[16:53] Rose Springvale: the D lots are going to be Guild built, correct?
[16:54] Rose Springvale: didn't we vote on that sunday?
[16:54] You: yes, tehy are
[16:54] Sonja Strom: I don't see anything like that Moon.
[16:54] Rose Springvale: mews?
[16:54] You: exactly, Sonja, that's why i am holding a doubt that this is THE covenant
[16:54] Sonja Strom: ah.
[16:55] You: unless, like Jon says, it has been changed since
[16:55] Tanoujin Milestone: Moon, the bavarian recommendation for zone0 is on http://neufreistadt.info/id26.html
[16:55] Rose Springvale: if that is right.. then we have 9 lots not counting the monastery
[16:55] Sleazy Writer: uhm, Moon, what exactly isn't right on the Wiki?
[16:55] Rose Springvale: 6 in this section
[16:55] Tanoujin Milestone: looks like the covenant was simplified
[16:55] Rose Springvale: only one other on the NFS side
[16:55] Jon Seattle: Yes, greatly
[16:56] You: sighs
[16:56] Rose Springvale: i'd like us to have a general broad theme, with a building committee to agree...
[16:57] Rose Springvale: there are so few lots when you take out the d lots
[16:57] Sleazy Writer: Moon .. could you please structure this into a vote -- or focus the conversation to something else?
[16:57] Tanoujin Milestone: hmmmm, lets first listen to moon and her zone plan, and battle the visions later, i would like to have the whole picture
[16:57] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[16:57] Sleazy Writer: (yes .. sorry if I interrupped ..)
[16:57] You: well, it's hard to structure as yet hmmm
[16:57] You: let me try and resume

[Moon Adamant]

[16:57] Alexicon Kurka: it takes time to understand good enough to formulate improvements for me
[16:58] You: we have proposals that imply a stratification of styles throughout the sim
[16:58] You: we also have a proposal to have a broad theme, and an approval commitee
[16:58] Michel Manen: i like the broqd theme with the commiteee
[16:58] You: mind that the approval committee can exist on both proposals
[16:58] You decline EZ-Poster from Sudane Erato.
[16:59] Sonja Strom: both proposals?
[17:00] You: açlso, i would like that Tan and Sleazy would present their proposal for zones
[17:00] Tanoujin Milestone: the zones, as they are, make a lot of sense to me, do they work for both proposals?
[17:00] Tanoujin Milestone: oh, Sleazy, would you?
[17:01] Sleazy Writer: Yes, our idea was to have 2 zones: Moon's "U" zone is "Italian Alpine", and the rest is "general ALpine" for those general plots, only the AH1 plot would have some more rules to prevent a disney castle .. and the DH1-4 plots would stay as they are because they're pre-built .. So roughly two zones
[17:02] Rose Springvale: hmm
[17:02] Rose Springvale: but
[17:02] Rose Springvale: CN is geman based too
[17:02] Michel Manen: thats way too complrrx
[17:02] Michel Manen: i dont agree
[17:02] Sleazy Writer: MM > it has a zone less than Moon's plan
[17:02] Michel Manen: general theme and comitte is best imho
[17:03] Sleazy Writer: but I like Moon's division into zones too
[17:03] Michel Manen: simple and flexible
[17:03] Tanoujin Milestone: can we work with the zones Moon designed?
[17:03] You: sorry btw to the people i keep sitting on
[17:03] Rose Springvale: lol
[17:03] Tanoujin Milestone: we have plot names then, makes it easir to discuss
[17:03] Michel Manen: why do we need more tha one general theme?
[17:03] Rose Springvale: i was wondering if you and sonja wer playing musical charis
[17:03] Jon Seattle: I much prefer Moon's proposal over the general committee
[17:03] You: well, they can be defined in terms of alpine styles
[17:04] Michel Manen: i dont its way to rigid
[17:04] Rose Springvale: moon... this is an issue i keep coming up agains..
[17:04] You: mind only that in my sketch, zones command appearance, and plot types will command stuff like max height, etc
[17:04] Rose Springvale: against.. is CN italian or germanic?
[17:04] Tanoujin Milestone leans back and listens
[17:04] Rose Springvale: i thougth it was based on Cologne
[17:04] You: CN is a roman city in the rhein
[17:04] You: on the*
[17:04] You: but it is out of time and space
[17:05] Michel Manen: i think general theme and committee offers the best mix between coherence, simplicity and flexibility
[17:05] Brian Livingston: I'm curious to see where teh committee would fit into the CDs structure. Part of the executive branch?
[17:05] Sonja Strom: CN is not like modern-day Cologne.
[17:05] Michel Manen: yes brian
[17:05] Rose Springvale: no, like roman cologne
[17:05] Sonja Strom: Perhaps in Roman times, I am not certain about that.
[17:05] Sleazy Writer: Brian .. I think if you look at finding volunteers; the Chancellor and 1 or 2 caretakers would be the committee
[17:05] Rose Springvale: that is what i used to design my office
[17:05] Sonja Strom: But it is clearly Roman, not Germanic in style.
[17:05] Rose Springvale: the guild would be the committee
[17:06] Sleazy Writer: BUt a committee could also get a bit subjective .. "I don't like the way this looks"
[17:06] Sonja Strom: I like it, btw.
[17:06] You: well, i must say that i think that a committee will delay teh unavoidable
[17:06] Yogeswari Padar: goodnight everyone!
[17:06] Tanoujin Milestone: bye, Yoge
[17:06] Sleazy Writer: Night Yoge
[17:06] Michel Manen: what is unavoidable moon?
[17:06] Jon Seattle: Goodnight Yoge
[17:06] Sonja Strom: bye
[17:06] You: well, lol, i am a bit of a coward when commenting other peopel's work
[17:06] You: i never can say 'that sucks!'
[17:07] Sonja Strom: not me LOL!
[17:07] Alexicon Kurka: moon means a woild mix of styles
[17:07] Rose Springvale: but
[17:07] Michel Manen: im very goof at saysing Thats crap
[17:07] Alexicon Kurka: wild*
[17:07] Rose Springvale: sucks isn't the criteria
[17:07] Michel Manen: i had a brilliant teacher
[17:07] You: i assume the committee will be cowardly like me
[17:07] Rose Springvale: if it fits theme
[17:07] Rose Springvale: then we shouldn't have the right to veto just because we don't like it
[17:07] Michel Manen: noo
[17:07] Brian Livingston: I think a committe would actually serve as a barrier and result in subjective decisions, claims of favoritism and so on, where as a clearcut theme keeps everyone on teh same page
[17:07] Sleazy Writer: I agree with Brian
[17:07] Michel Manen: i dont agree at all brian
[17:08] Sonja Strom: i agree with Brian.
[17:08] Tanoujin Milestone: i notice we loose track
[17:08] Michel Manen: lol
[17:08] Rose Springvale: i tend to agree, but i 'd rather have a broader theme
[17:08] Sonja Strom: Then exceptions can be decided on later.
[17:08] You: i may agree with Brian
[17:08] Sleazy Writer: I like a committee for the looks .. but it doesn't seem something that would work in the CDS
[17:08] Rose Springvale: not comfortable with italian on one part
[17:08] You: then hmmm
[17:08] You: what about a compromise?
[17:08] Sonja Strom: Rose, CN looks Italian to me.
[17:08] Rose Springvale: yes, i know
[17:08] Rose Springvale: but not my side of the river
[17:08] Sonja Strom: OK, Roman, yes that's true.
[17:08] Alexicon Kurka: If CN wouldnt look italian I wouldnt be there
[17:08] You: we have a brod theme, and a comittee, but keep the rules as work rules for teh committee?
[17:09] Rose Springvale: and that is adjacent to this
[17:09] Michel Manen: oh yes i forgot wewre a bureucracy not a democracy.. long live long paperwork and down with votes in committees lol
[17:09] Brian Livingston: A committe to oversee requests for variances?
[17:09] Rose Springvale: michel hush lol
[17:09] Michel Manen: anyway this has gone way too long for me.. sorry i need to runl.l bye bye for now al L(
[17:09] You: thanks Michel
[17:09] Tanoujin Milestone: bye, Michel
[17:09] Sonja Strom: bye
[17:09] You: he's too fast
[17:09] Brian Livingston: But that is currently part of the Executives responsibility and its workign fien so far
[17:09] You: what about the compromise solution?
[17:09] Sleazy Writer: bye
[17:09] Sonja Strom: Committees can also become very bureaucratic...
[17:09] Brian Livingston: what is the compromise?
[17:09] Brian Livingston: Very much so, Sonya
[17:10] You: keep a broad theme and a committee to be decided
[17:10] Jon Seattle: Well, my worry is that a general "theme" without specifics would not be maintained. Look at the NFS valley for example. And this is very visible space.
[17:10] You: but have rules for the committee to decide upon
[17:10] Rose Springvale: what about a theme with guildelines
[17:10] Brian Livingston: Asa builder, I would cringe having to wait for committee approval
[17:10] Sleazy Writer: Moon's variety seems like a committee doing the work that the chancellor does now .. not a bad solution .. that means that e.g. Tanoujin could give (minor) waivers for covenants .. seems an effective way to work
[17:10] Rose Springvale: no,i am withdrawing the committee idea lol
[17:10] Tanoujin Milestone: me? lol
[17:11] Tanoujin Milestone: yes, ty...
[17:11] Rose Springvale: you are right, it wouldn't work the rright way here
[17:11] Sleazy Writer: R > hehe don't like Tanoujin's taste?
[17:11] You: Sudane has also suggested
[17:11] Rose Springvale: lol
[17:11] Sleazy Writer: (or Dnate's ..)
[17:11] You: a procedure tehy adopt at SLNE
[17:11] Rose Springvale: dnate's
[17:11] Rose Springvale: yes, that works ..
[17:11] Rose Springvale: but
[17:11] You: and that is, that the building be built high first
[17:11] You: then approved, then lowered
[17:11] Tanoujin Milestone: build in the sky, approve, settle?
[17:11] Rose Springvale: oh that part
[17:12] You: it also requires an approval
[17:12] Rose Springvale: i have a problem with taht.. and i own there too
[17:12] Brian Livingston: Difficult with the terrain
[17:12] Rose Springvale: the problem is
[17:12] Sleazy Writer: Moon > that's difficult if you want to adopt your house to the slope! in fact .. I think it's a bad idea :-/
[17:12] Rose Springvale: you put in all the work
[17:12] Rose Springvale: and they can say no
[17:12] You: yes, Sleazy, you are right
[17:12] Alexicon Kurka: buildings should be judged on the ground in this case, as we allow a lot of diversity
[17:12] Sleazy Writer: We *want* people to be original with the terrain .. I hope ..
[17:12] Tanoujin Milestone: hi Beathan
[17:12] Rose Springvale: even with their thre step process
[17:12] Sleazy Writer: Hi Beathan
[17:12] You: hi Beathan
[17:12] Beathan Vale: hello
[17:12] You: permission to record chat?
[17:12] Rose Springvale: is there a reason to distiguish the zones?
[17:13] Beathan Vale: record away
[17:13] Rose Springvale: can't we all be alpine?
[17:13] Brian Livingston: Hiya Beathan
[17:13] Jon Seattle: Hi Beathan
[17:13] Tanoujin Milestone: ok, wait, what happened? Moon started to explain rules for the village zone
[17:13] You: well, Rose, the main issue is linking with CN
[17:13] Tanoujin Milestone: now we talk about broad theme or what? i dont get the problem
[17:13] Sleazy Writer: Rose .. AM *is* alpine.. we jsut want to segregate spaghetti gobblers from wurstfressers
[17:13] Rose Springvale: but since we link to an unrestricted zone...
[17:13] Tanoujin Milestone: yes?
[17:13] You: of course, you can follow the Great FL Wright's recommendations, and make people PLANT trees
[17:14] Sleazy Writer: okay that was a bit too strong
[17:14] Tanoujin Milestone: Rose?
[17:14] Rose Springvale: it just doesnt' make sense to me to restrict more in the more open sim
[17:14] Rose Springvale: thatn the adjacent lots
[17:14] Tanoujin Milestone: ok, so you want the v zone with low restrictions, like the south part of cn
[17:14] Tanoujin Milestone: right?
[17:14] Rose Springvale: especially since we are working with a transitional theme
[17:15] Rose Springvale: i want the whole sim to have the option to be similar
[17:15] Tanoujin Milestone: similar to what?
[17:15] Rose Springvale: if a bavarian wants to build out my back door
[17:15] Rose Springvale: i dont' think they should have to be roman
[17:15] You: well, some things seem obvious
[17:15] Jon Seattle: Well, the result will be quite a mix, really it will quickly evolve away from anything like an alp or rural..
[17:15] Rose Springvale: that's the diversity in rural settings
[17:15] You: you don't want roman stuff near the monastery plot
[17:15] You: but you may allow it in the Hamlet
[17:15] Rose Springvale: there are monasteries in italy
[17:16] Tanoujin Milestone: Rose, would you like to have no zoning?
[17:16] Sleazy Writer: diversity in such a small 256x256 area is really not as great as it sounds ..
[17:16] Rose Springvale: i'm just in favor of a more natural growth within the time frame and geographic setting
[17:16] Tanoujin Milestone: i only try to understand the issues,
[17:16] You: then may the Hamlet area be defined as just 'antique looking'?
[17:17] You: liek the old NFS valley?
[17:17] Tanoujin Milestone: i am not trying to catch you or whatnot, Rose, just naive questions, ok?
[17:17] Alexicon Kurka: well in practice there are old centers in the old style, sorounted by newer zones
[17:17] Rose Springvale: whatever you all want is fine, that is just my opinion
[17:17] You: yes Alex, and very frequently the newer buildings pillage elemenst from the older ones
[17:17] Tanoujin Milestone: yes, and thats what i try to understand
[17:18] You: that's why you may see a roman column in a medieval building in Italy
[17:18] Alexicon Kurka: moon yes if tehre is some taste in the architectes involved
[17:18] You: ah, yes, that's another ticket
[17:18] You: so what if hmmm
[17:18] You: we define this area here as a mix ON PURPOSE?
[17:19] Alexicon Kurka: so it seems right for me to strictly regulate a tinny old centre and have the rest free
[17:19] Sonja Strom: so long as there is a blend of the existing elements...
[17:19] Tanoujin Milestone: "natural growth within the time frame and geographic setting" = AM as a whole?
[17:20] Sonja Strom: Star Wars buildings should go on another sim.
[17:20] Sonja Strom: There, naturally, they are fine.
[17:20] Alexicon Kurka: alpine was our umbrela
[17:20] Rose Springvale: T> yes... M> since we are looking to bring the two sims together
[17:20] Sonja Strom: exactly.
[17:20] Rose Springvale: i think it could work
[17:20] You: ok, so will we define U zone as a mix on purpose?
[17:21] You: allowing people to choose elements from alpine and classical?
[17:21] Rose Springvale: what do you all think?
[17:21] Sonja Strom: I would not state it so strongly as that.
[17:21] Sonja Strom: But it can be the implication of it.
[17:21] Alexicon Kurka: I like it if we would preserve a tinny part of it, maybe make it public
[17:21] Rose Springvale: alex
[17:21] Sonja Strom: What is allowed is allowed without needing to have an exception.
[17:21] Rose Springvale: the idea of this sim was not to be urban.. to let NFS and CN be the urban centers
[17:21] Rose Springvale: actually
[17:22] Rose Springvale: if we say.. alpine, define time period... list elements of the strict parts of the two sims
[17:22] Rose Springvale: ?
[17:22] Rose Springvale: and remember rural
[17:22] Tanoujin Milestone: ok, ic...
[17:22] Jon Seattle: Rose, too many people will forget and never hear of it before purchasing..
[17:23] You: ok, we can incorporate a time frame and a rural character in teh covenant
[17:23] Jon Seattle: if you are not specific, there will be no want to keep things from changing
[17:23] Rose Springvale: otherwise we end up with extensions of the other two and what in the middle?
[17:23] You: and we can say alpine overall, but i do think you need to define zones a bit further
[17:23] Sleazy Writer: Hi Princess
[17:23] Rose Springvale: but the problem is that already exists at the linking points jon
[17:23] You: hi Princess
[17:23] Jon Seattle: I need to run. Everyone, have a good meeting. Bye
[17:23] ThePrincess Parisi: hi everyone
[17:23] Alexicon Kurka: hi the Princess
[17:23] Sonja Strom: hi, bye
[17:23] Rose Springvale: sigh
[17:23] Moon Adamant hugs Jon
[17:23] Sleazy Writer: Bye Jon
[17:23] Rose Springvale: i'm running out of time too
[17:23] ThePrincess Parisi: bye jon
[17:23] Jon Seattle hugs Moon
[17:24] Tanoujin Milestone: Bye, Jon
[17:24] Jon Seattle: Hi / bye Princess
[17:24] Tanoujin Milestone: hi ThePrincess
[17:24] ThePrincess Parisi: hi tan
[17:24] You: yes, we can't be here much longer, it's getting very late for people in CET
[17:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i guessi missed it
[17:24] Rose Springvale: and we have a concert tonight in the ER ...
[17:24] You: eheh, it' sok, we have TONS to discuss still
[17:24] You: s most possibly we will need another meeting
[17:24] Sleazy Writer: Can this be put into a vote before Rose leaves?
[17:25] You: the rest of the things are technical, thank god, and can be resolved quickly
[17:25] You: hmmm
[17:25] You: i think this needs a series of votes
[17:25] Sonja Strom: I think so too.
[17:25] Sonja Strom: Some time to think about it would be good.
[17:25] Sleazy Writer: let's try to do it then
[17:25] Rose Springvale: i suggest we work on some wording and bring it back to committee
[17:25] You: let me try and systematize
[17:26] Sonja Strom: In the mean time we can talk further in the Forum.
[17:26] Rose Springvale: aaarrrrrgggghhhh
[17:26] Rose Springvale:
[17:26] You: hm, yes, Rose, but we should define assumptions
[17:26] Tanoujin Milestone: Rose
[17:26] You: or you may end with a handful of texts that aren't matcheable
[17:26] Sonja Strom: Are we in a hurr?
[17:26] You: so i would think, first of all
[17:26] Sonja Strom: hurry?
[17:26] Rose Springvale: yes!
[17:26] Sonja Strom: why?
[17:26] Rose Springvale: we want this sim for christmas lol
[17:27] Sleazy Writer: heheh, wanna bet?
[17:27] Beathan Vale: and I kind of want the land with the monsastery back -;-)
[17:27] Rose Springvale: moon gave us 15 days for covenants!
[17:27] Sonja Strom: Could we not create it at the same time as we find agreement on such problems?
[17:27] You: that we should vote in the covenant incorporating Rose's ideas of rurality, timeslot and alpineness
[17:27] Tanoujin Milestone: ah, Beathan, ok... should we pack our things
[17:27] Beathan Vale: no -- it's OK
[17:28] Tanoujin Milestone: i call you back on that later
[17:28] You: uh Sonja, we must really deal with some things previously to buying
[17:28] Rose Springvale: that seems the very basic part Moon..
[17:28] Beathan Vale: I just need some timeline --
[17:28] Beathan Vale: no big deal
[17:28] Sleazy Writer: the monastery nuns are squatting on your land!
[17:28] You: so hmmm
[17:28] Sonja Strom: even the covenants?
[17:28] Rose Springvale: more detail i think is what we are not sure about
[17:28] Rose Springvale: yes?
[17:28] You: then we can agree that your words are part of the general description of the sim?
[17:29] Sonja Strom: We have a general agreement I believe.
[17:29] You: meaning, that it is defined generally as alpine, rural and antique?
[17:29] Sleazy Writer: Moon > I think the approval-committee and the number (and nature) of zones are two different things and can be voted on seperately
[17:29] Sonja Strom: It is only the exact details and wording on which we differ.
[17:29] Rose Springvale: yes
[17:29] You: yes, but let me build from the things we agree upon
[17:29] Rose Springvale: to all of that
[17:29] Sonja Strom: yes
[17:29] Sonja Strom: ok
[17:30] You: everyone agree?
[17:30] Sleazy Writer: on what?
[17:30] Rose Springvale: we've reached the point of diminishing returns here lol
[17:30] You: the sim will be defined as is defined generally as alpine, rural and antique?
[17:31] You: guys, i am trying to give everyone a common base for proposing zoning, or not proposing it
[17:31] Sleazy Writer: aye to that .. though not perfect
[17:31] Sonja Strom: yes, I agree with your overall definition.
[17:31] Beathan Vale: sorry -- have to run
[17:31] Tanoujin Milestone: alpine, rural and antique, thats consensus, right?
[17:31] Rose Springvale: aye
[17:31] Sonja Strom: bye
[17:31] Tanoujin Milestone: aye
[17:31] Tanoujin Milestone: and bye
[17:31] Sonja Strom: aye
[17:31] Alexicon Kurka: aye
[17:31] You: meaning, we won't be able to choose from a proposal that proposes starwars and another that proposes pirate ships
[17:32] You: ok, thanks
[17:32] Rose Springvale: yay!
[17:32] Alexicon Kurka: and bye
[17:32] Alexicon Kurka: well thank you for making me part of this today, I have to leave too
[17:32] You: now, please vote on: There must be a zone differentiation, if minimal, to encompass the transition of themes?
[17:32] Tanoujin Milestone: bye
[17:32] You: bye Alex
[17:32] Sonja Strom: bye
[17:32] Rose Springvale: bye Alex
[17:32] Sleazy Writer: bye Alexicon
[17:33] Rose Springvale: i'll be consistent and vote no
[17:33] Tanoujin Milestone: i see no reason why zones are bad... aye....
[17:33] Brian Livingston: aye
[17:33] Sleazy Writer: i'm almost back
[17:33] Sleazy Writer: reading
[17:33] You: lol
[17:34] Sleazy Writer: aye
[17:34] Sonja Strom: Rose, are you unhappy with the overall idea.
[17:34] Sonja Strom: ?
[17:34] Rose Springvale: no.. i'm happy
[17:34] Sonja Strom: ok, but you voted no?
[17:34] Rose Springvale: just prefer more openness
[17:34] Rose Springvale: not zones
[17:34] Tanoujin Milestone: me not, i have a strong feeling i miss the point , but i want that sim
[17:34] Sonja Strom: are we voting on zones?
[17:34] Rose Springvale: i'd reather see what creative thigns people come up with
[17:35] Rose Springvale: zones limit i think
[17:35] You: yes, Sonja, we are voting on:
[17:35] You: There must be a zone differentiation, if minimal, to encompass the transition of themes?
[17:35] Sonja Strom: ok, sorry, i fell behind you.
[17:35] Tanoujin Milestone: ah, now i get it, Rose, you want freedom of creativity?
[17:35] Rose Springvale: yes
[17:35] Rose Springvale: always!
[17:35] Tanoujin Milestone: at last!
[17:35] Sonja Strom: But there can be variation within a zone, or?
[17:35] You: well, Rose, but people can be creative within rules
[17:35] Tanoujin Milestone: thanks for your patience
[17:35] You: yes, surely
[17:36] You: that's to Sonja
[17:36] Rose Springvale: i know Moon, but .. we don't have to be unaimous
[17:36] Rose Springvale: unanimous
[17:36] Rose Springvale: i promise not to pout:)
[17:36] You: when i say that i can have walls made of stone, brick, wood or stucco, that's justly so
[17:36] You: that you can have variations, but inside one norm
[17:37] Rose Springvale: but that would apply sim wide
[17:37] Rose Springvale: we are talking i think
[17:37] Rose Springvale: about dividing up the sim
[17:37] Rose Springvale: so some build one way
[17:37] Rose Springvale: other build another
[17:37] You: personally, i am more creative with rules, and when i have to project without rules, i make my own
[17:37] Sleazy Writer: So, votes for the zones-or-not vote were: aye (brian, sleazy, tanoujin) .. nay (Rose) ... Moon and Sonja - what are you voting?
[17:37] You: i vote aye, though i understand Rose's concerns
[17:38] Sonja Strom: aye - in favor although I also understand, like you.
[17:38] You: but i will look again at my notes, and try to meet your concerns
[17:38] Sonja Strom: They need not be extremely strict.
[17:38] Rose Springvale:
[17:38] Tanoujin Milestone: yes. lets keep that in mind, not to overregulate
[17:38] You: i must say what worries me the most
[17:39] Sonja Strom: And we can remember, exceptions can always be allowed.
[17:39] You: is the creeping of unwanted textures
[17:39] You: the tendency to make HUGE windows
[17:39] You: and the tendency to overfill plots
[17:39] Brian Livingston: Definitely
[17:39] Rose Springvale: we can look at some of the regulations for that.. again, the way they do it in slne is really harsh. but works
[17:39] You: also, i am worried about having walt disney's castles, but i am philosophical about something which we possibly won't be able to avoid
[17:40] Sonja Strom: yes, and for me sometimes when the buildings next to each other are very different in style...
[17:40] Sleazy Writer: hm .. how long can we keep on voting if this is strictly a Guild thing .. but defacto a citizenry-wide thing?
[17:40] Rose Springvale: why do you all hate disney?? lol
[17:40] You: ehehe
[17:40] Tanoujin Milestone: because of the music
[17:40] Sleazy Writer: okay .. McDonalds are banned in AM, but Disney allowed
[17:40] Rose Springvale: isn't it based on a castle in bavaria??
[17:40] Tanoujin Milestone:
[17:40] You: well, i was cgoing to adjourn now
[17:40] You: yes, but the king who made the original castle was mad
[17:40] Rose Springvale: a beautiful castle as i recall!
[17:40] Rose Springvale: ahh
[17:40] Tanoujin Milestone: we hate King Ludwig too,
[17:40] Rose Springvale: so
[17:41] Rose Springvale: we are in SL lol
[17:41] Rose Springvale: we areall mad!
[17:41] Sonja Strom: Thank you for your work Moon, and everybody for being here.
[17:41] You: mind, his cousin built castle too here
[17:41] You: oh, lol, just a sec
[17:41] You: HOMEWORK
[17:41] Sleazy Writer: yes thanks everyone
[17:41] You:
[17:41] Tanoujin Milestone:
[17:41] Sonja Strom: work? oh.
[17:41] Brian Livingston: Homework? Eep!@
[17:41] You: now you guys, in the comfy recesses of your homes
[17:41] You: will look at these two statements
[17:42] You: and think how to solve this zone thingy
[17:42] You: how do you want to proceed next btw?
[17:42] Sleazy Writer: hm .. Princess - are you still awake?
[17:42] You: another meeting?
[17:42] Rose Springvale: yes please
[17:42] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[17:42] You: i think we solved more issues at this meeting than in several pages of forums
[17:42] Rose Springvale: i think it is good to discuss in world
[17:43] Sleazy Writer: didn't you need to vote?
[17:43] Rose Springvale: and we are nice to each other
[17:43] You: oh, i voted aye
[17:43] Sonja Strom: could be, but I am also not afraid of the Forum.
[17:43] Rose Springvale: i am
[17:43] You: guys, i just have a problem here
[17:43] Sonja Strom: It is a way to communicate.
[17:43] Rose Springvale: just one??
[17:43] You: i think that i can't ask the Sec-gen of the CSDF to disband another meeting
[17:44] Rose Springvale: oh
[17:44] Rose Springvale: well
[17:44] Rose Springvale: any night is fine with me
[17:44] Sleazy Writer: no you can't ..
[17:44] You: what day would be good to you all?
[17:44] Sleazy Writer: let's not do it again on Wednesday 3 PM SLT
[17:44] Rose Springvale: i thougt we were adaptign to Jamielol
[17:44] You: lol, and he hasn't showed up!
[17:44] Rose Springvale: monday is slow in sl!
[17:44] You: ah, on mondays i can't
[17:44] Rose Springvale: scratch monday
[17:44] You: BT briefing
[17:44] Rose Springvale: tuesday?
[17:44] You: tuesday can work
[17:45] Rose Springvale: is this too late?
[17:45] Brian Livingston: is thsi next tuesday or the tuesday afterwards?
[17:45] Rose Springvale: next!!
[17:45] You: nest tuesday
[17:45] Sleazy Writer: I'd like Thursday
[17:45] Brian Livingston: Okee.
[17:45] You: i want to have the covenants in 15 days
[17:45] Sleazy Writer: who likes THursday
[17:45] Rose Springvale: hums christmas carold
[17:45] You: thursday can also work for me
[17:45] Rose Springvale: thursday i have a ssinger at Er at 6
[17:46] Rose Springvale: so it is a lot of pressure on me
[17:46] Sleazy Writer: we'll have the meeting at 3 pm slt then
[17:46] Brian Livingston: I'll e-mail any thoughts I have to Moon. I'm on Vacation all next week so I will likley not signing into SL unless i buy that laptop I have my eye on :p
[17:46] You: Rose, we need to start by 3
[17:46] Rose Springvale: but
[17:46] Rose Springvale: yes, and if we go to six
[17:46] Rose Springvale: my family is unfed
[17:46] You: because of people in CET, this is almost 3 AM for them
[17:46] Rose Springvale: lol
[17:46] Rose Springvale: earlier is okay too
[17:46] Rose Springvale: was there a problem with tuesday SW?
[17:46] Sonja Strom: earlier is probably OK with me.
[17:47] You: Sleazy has an issue with Tuesday
[17:47] Rose Springvale: then we have a few more days to meet our deadline
[17:47] You: pokes sleazy
[17:47] Sleazy Writer: yes Thursday is better for me
[17:47] Rose Springvale: and tuesday is better for me. shall we meet both?
[17:47] Rose Springvale: lol
[17:48] You: decide yourselves
[17:48] Sleazy Writer: let Sonja decide or something
[17:48] Brian Livingston: Hows about Saturday :p
[17:48] Sleazy Writer: or princess
[17:48] Sleazy Writer:
[17:48] You: in any case, i agree with starting one hour sooner, at 2 PM
[17:48] Sonja Strom: thePrincess!
[17:48] You: saturday is my only night off in the week Brian
[17:48] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[17:48] Rose Springvale: no saturdays
[17:48] You: that's the only meal i don't have to cook myself!
[17:48] ThePrincess Parisi: i was back and forth sorry
[17:49] Sonja Strom: weekends are not good for me, although sometimes I can make them.
[17:49] Rose Springvale: i think it's tuesday or thursday
[17:49] Rose Springvale: and i'll be gracious and give in
[17:49] Sonja Strom: better for me..
[17:49] You: ehehe, thanks Rose
[17:49] Sleazy Writer: thanks
[17:49] Tanoujin Milestone:
[17:49] You: just in time, i was about to book BOTH nights
[17:49] Rose Springvale:
[17:49] Rose Springvale: phew
[17:49] Sleazy Writer: good idea!
[17:49] Sleazy Writer: hahah
[17:50] You: ok, so Tuesday at 2 PM it is
[17:50] Rose Springvale: 2 pm thursday
[17:50] Rose Springvale: lol
[17:50] Rose Springvale: moon
[17:50] Sleazy Writer: we might even need 2 more meetings ...
[17:50] Rose Springvale: cute
[17:50] You: yes?
[17:50] Sleazy Writer: yes
[17:50] Sleazy Writer: great
[17:50] Rose Springvale: nooo
[17:50] You: lol
[17:50] Rose Springvale: sleazy didn't want tuesday
[17:50] Rose Springvale: it's thursday
[17:50] You: ah, sorry
[17:50] You: thursday
[17:50] You: you know, weekdays in english are very confusing
[17:50] Brian Livingston: A week from Tommorow is the 1 year anniversary of the opening of CN, fwiw
[17:50] Rose Springvale: unless i confused something lol
[17:51] Sonja Strom: yay!
[17:51] Rose Springvale: wow
[17:51] You: in portuguese is much easier, tehy are numbered, first, second, etc
[17:51] You: so thursday next week, at 2 PM
[17:51] Rose Springvale: that is the day we just agreed to meet
[17:51] Rose Springvale: so hmm. i'll plan something...
[17:51] Rose Springvale: can we meet in CN then?
[17:51] You: ok, can we adjourn?