[08:02] Delia Lake: I call to order the meeting of the SC, Sunday, 6 Nov 2022 at 8:02 am
(present Delia, Lilith, Calli and citizens, Leslie Allendale and Moon Adamant)
[08:05] Delia Lake: The first order of business is to acclaim the Candidates for the CDS goverment elected offices for the 38th term as the official Slate of Officers for that term.
[08:05] Delia Lake: Here they are.
[08:05] Delia Lake: 1 Chancellor: Moon Adamant
5 Representative Assembly (RA): Almut Brunswick, Sandy Burgess, Gwyneth Llewelyn, Agatha Macbeth, and Jerry McNally
[08:06] Callipygian Christensen: I move that we acclaim the incoming candidates as posted
[08:06] Lilith Ivory: I second
[08:06] Delia Lake: All in favor?
[08:06] Delia Lake: Aye
[08:06] Lilith Ivory: aye
[08:06] Callipygian Christensen: aye
[08:06] Delia Lake: They are now the incoming officers. Thank you
[08:07] Delia Lake: Second on the agenda is remembering Soro. This is the first time in our history that we have had a member of the SC die while in office
[08:09] Delia Lake: Soro served on the SC I believe for 12 years, including a term as Dean. While we officially removed Soro from this body, it has been suggested that we might want to put up a photo of Soro here in Chambers.
[08:10] Lilith Ivory: this is a good idea and I would suggest to ask Emilia for a newer picture of Soro
[08:10] Delia Lake: comments and suggestions regarding Soro?
[08:10] Callipygian Christensen: I think that would be a good thing
[08:11] Delia Lake: Good suggestion, Lil. I don't have any photos. I will ask Emilia. In case she does not have one, do either of you have one we might use? I looked and do not have any.
[08:11] Lilith Ivory: I only have ancient pictures of Soro 
[08:12] Callipygian Christensen: I only have ones with his partner at the time - Emilia will no doubt have one.
[08:14] Delia Lake: Since Emilia is currently inworld I just sent her and IM asking
[08:15] Delia Lake: Emilia is looking for a photo she took of Soro here in the SC
[08:17] Lilith Ivory: nice 
[08:17] Callipygian Christensen: thats a nice one
[08:17] Delia Lake: it is perfect
[08:17] Callipygian Christensen: I can download it, trim it and frame it
[08:17] Callipygian Christensen: add his name on the frame
[08:18] Lilith Ivory: great
[08:18] Delia Lake: Thank you, Calli. I was just about to ask that and maybe credit for the photo to Emilia?
[08:18] Callipygian Christensen: of course
[08:18] Callipygian Christensen: Ill Im her for permsision to do that
[08:19] Delia Lake: very good
[08:20] Delia Lake: I look forward to seeing the photo framed and hung
[08:21] Delia Lake: Next on our agenda is the newly passed revised CDS Constitution.
[08:23] Delia Lake: It is appropriate in a democracy to review all foundational operating documents periodically and revise them when they no longer serve. I am one who I would say is careful and conservative in this respect
[08:23] Delia Lake: While conditions do change, wide swings in laws and regulations of any community make understanding and compliance difficult if not impossible
[08:24] Delia Lake: The RA did modify and change some of the ways our 3 branches operate in respect to each other
[08:25] Delia Lake: We have read and commented on these changes previous to their recent vote. Is there more we would want to say now that the changes have been adopted?
[08:26] Delia Lake: https://cdsdemocracy.org/cds-constitution/#article-iii
[08:27] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[08:27] Delia Lake: yes please, Calli
[08:28] Callipygian Christensen: If as part of updating this we are going to actually start following it accurately, will we be taking over the posting of laws - which would mean that a law is not posted until after the timeframe for us to rasie concern?
[08:28] Delia Lake: So it would seem
[08:28] Callipygian Christensen: I believe the practise has been for the RA archivist to ost laws has it not?
[08:29] Lilith Ivory: yes so far the RA archivist has posted the amended and new laws
[08:29] Delia Lake: That is my understanding as well, Calli. At least for many years and probably not ever has the SC posted the laws
[08:31] Delia Lake: I'm starting a notecard of comments.
[08:31] Callipygian Christensen: I think that was added some years back but cant recall when, and really it should be an SC role, but either way we should clarify where the resonsibility lies and have that amended if there is a desire for the RA archivist to continue
[08:32] Lilith Ivory: good idea
[08:32] Delia Lake: How do we want to handle this? Send an official notecard to the LRA, Flag it? What would be most constructive do you think?
[08:33] Callipygian Christensen: Article 3, 1, c is the line
[08:33] Callipygian Christensen: I think a card pointing out the wording, that it was not changed and could the RA decide if it wishes to amend
[08:34] Delia Lake: Thank you. I agree. Lil?
[08:34] Lilith Ivory: I agree too
[08:34] Lilith Ivory: but we might have to wait till the new RA got seated
[08:34] Delia Lake: true
[08:35] Delia Lake: I expect that the RA for this term may have 1 more meeting but usually they have introduced something then voted during their following meeting
[08:35] Callipygian Christensen: Also, I still do not like 'the Judicial branch' , but so it goes.
[08:36] Delia Lake: I don't like that either. And the term is used in laws as well
[08:36] Callipygian Christensen: It's a constitutional amendment possibly so would need clear posting and notification - almost certainly best to deliver it to the incoming RA
[08:36] Delia Lake: That makes sense to me too
[08:37] Lilith Ivory nods in agreement
[08:40] Delia Lake: a second issue is that the RA did not accept the recommendation of the SC that RA members should be required to state their rationale for voting not to confirm a candidate the SC puts forth for filling a vacancy on the SC
[08:41] Delia Lake: That requirement is in CDSL 16-07 though
[08:41] Delia Lake: The LRA will invite the candidate to appear at the next meeting of the RA to be interviewed in regards to their perceived likelihood to uphold the Constitution, and to receive a vote of confidence from the RA. RA members are expected to consider any candidate based on their ability to perform the duties of an SC member, not on any personal friendship or enmity. RA members will give a brief rationale for their vote and the candidate will be considered confirmed by a simple majority.
[08:41] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Delia here but don't think there is anything we can do
[08:42] Callipygian Christensen: that is not a valid law though
[08:42] Delia Lake: that's the point though
[08:43] Delia Lake: it is posted as a law but can't be
[08:43] Callipygian Christensen: Indeed, giving a rationale was always intended as part of any change to the process, but the LRA spoke adamantly against any RA member being publically accountable for any vote they cast
[08:43] Lilith Ivory: we need to remind the incoming RA again to amend CDSL 16-07 - or trash it
[08:43] Callipygian Christensen: they cant amend it Lilith
[08:44] Lilith Ivory nods
[08:44] Delia Lake: no, it should be removed as an active law because it can't be
[08:44] Delia Lake: that process was never completed
[08:44] Callipygian Christensen: it never actually became a law and should never have been posted - and we've asked for its removal a number of times iirc (which might be a good argument for someone other than RA members posting and managing the laws on the website lol)
[08:46] Lilith Ivory: I fully agree
[08:46] Lilith Ivory: it can not be that an invalid law stays in our code of laws for so long
[08:47] Delia Lake: other than the stating of the rationale for RA confirmation of a nominee to the SC, is there anything else in that law that we would recommend be instated?
[08:47] Delia Lake: 16-07 has been on the active list for 10.5 years but it is not legally valid
[08:48] Lilith Ivory: we all should be able to trust that laws in our code of laws are legally binding
[08:49] Delia Lake: we have time to consider what I previously said because we will not send this notecard until after Dec 1
[08:49] Delia Lake: yes, Lil, that's a very, very important point!
[08:50] Callipygian Christensen: Personally, considering the years its been since that was written that 'law' should be removed and any desired changes to the process of selecting SC members be revisited.
[08:51] Callipygian Christensen: As an aside, in one of those 'funny how things come full circle - the drive to create that law was due to a couple of RA members being dissatisfied with the appointment of Soro to the SC
[08:51] Delia Lake: that's what I meant, Calli, and you said it better
[08:52] Delia Lake: yes! I remember that well
[08:52] Lilith Ivory: ah I see
[08:52] Delia Lake: and the primary complaint was that Soro came to the CDS via Al Andalus
[08:53] Callipygian Christensen: As did I - and another interesting thing, the RA members who voted against my joining the SC gave rationales shrug
[08:53] Delia Lake: yes, that's correct
[08:54] Callipygian Christensen: Anyway, for that notecard Lil, just list the removal of that and we'll review SC procedure to ensure it meshes with the constitutional desicription
[08:54] Lilith Ivory: good idea
[08:55] Delia Lake: I do understand the reluctance to give a rationale on every vote. it would in a way put every vote into the category of a popularity contest, or could if our citizenry were that involved and active in government procedures
[08:56] Delia Lake: but in the case of confirming nominees to the SC I feel it is entirely different.
[08:56] Callipygian Christensen: we arent asking for every vote - we are specifically asking for a rationale for ignoring an SC recommendation
[08:57] Lilith Ivory: also it concerns me that all our nominees depend on the trust of RA members who sometimes are only citizens for a few month
[08:57] Lilith Ivory: that shortens the list of possible candidates imensely
[08:59] Delia Lake: Not the least of my concerns is that this term, next term and other recent terms of government, the RA has been put in office by acclamation and not by voting. There has been no requirement that these RA members share any philosophy of governing nor any ideas of what they believe. So without a stated rationale in the SC confirmation process we have a nominee that has gone through a public process of stating their understanding of our Constitution and Laws, but they may be rejected by in effect unelected, self-selected volunteers who may hold a grudge
[09:00] Delia Lake: I'm not saying this would happen but that it COULD legally happen under our current Constitution
[09:00] Callipygian Christensen: I agree Delia
[09:01] Lilith Ivory: exactly what I am thinking
[09:01] Callipygian Christensen: I'd go so far as to say that at times it has been clear that some members of RA, elected or acclaimed, are not overly familiar with our laws and consitution themselves
[09:02] Delia Lake: And maybe I'm a bit over-sensitive right now given that my RL avatar is a citizen of the US where so many States have in effect no voice in voting due to gerrymandering of voting districts, but I did want to get this concern on our official record
[09:02] Callipygian Christensen: so placing the ability to judge an SC candidate's abilit to follow them in their power is questionable.
[09:03] Delia Lake: That is for sure, Calli. There is no requirement that a member of the RA has ever read much less understands our Constitution and Laws
[09:03] Lilith Ivory: I do agree
[09:04] Delia Lake: This is not an attack or disparagement of the current RA by any means. It is a statement of concern and caution to prevent what has come close to happening in the past and is happening in RL governments from infecting our CDS government
[09:05] Lilith Ivory: sadly the way our government gets formed has nothing to do with democracy at the moment - and this concerns me a lot
[09:05] Delia Lake: yes it concerns me also
[09:07] Delia Lake: We are already over an hour. we could continue this meeting but I recommend that we review this over the next month, post to our SC discussions and pick it up again at our next meeting. At that time we can vote on a notecard to pass to the next term LRA
[09:07] Callipygian Christensen: The major reason given for not addressing that rationale concern (in addition to the LRA's personal objections) was that the notification came too late. I think we resubmit the conern to the new RA, and with suitable time for debate perhaps it can be an amendment at that point
[09:08] Lilith Ivory: that is a good idea
[09:08] Delia Lake: I agree, Calli. And that vote was tabled after that comment so that the vote was not actually until 2 weeks later. Lilith and I were both at that voting meeting and again spoke up on the need but to no avail
[09:09] Lilith Ivory: I still don't understand why two RA members changed their vote in the second discussion
[09:10] Callipygian Christensen: oh..and 5-16 became null and void in the spring of 2008 lol
[09:10] Delia Lake: before we adjourn though i do want to raise another issue. That's reviving our Government Question and Information Hour
[09:11] Delia Lake: We have talked about the need to do this in the past
[09:11] Moon Adamant listens
[09:11] Delia Lake: Recently I also spoke with Moon, our incoming Chancellor about it and Moon, I believe you are in agreement, yes?
[09:11] Moon Adamant: totally
[09:13] Delia Lake: Might we SC rotate our time to participate either in a discussion where we host and focus on SC and/or join another government officer in hosting a more general discussion?
[09:15] Delia Lake: Personally, I think it would be a good idea not only to post for our citizenry but also to cross post with Etopia and the whole of the VWEC Eduverse Consortium. Educate our citizens and potential citizens along with Consortia members
[09:15] Delia Lake: Lil and Calli, what are your thoughts?
[09:17] Callipygian Christensen: 'gov't' question hour suggests access to all arms of gov't and invariably any question that came up would be for the arm that was NOT present..
[09:17] Lilith Ivory: this is a good idea
[09:17] Lilith Ivory: and also I wonder if we (the chancellor) should invite newer citizens directly
[09:18] Callipygian Christensen: I think though that a monthly session, led by the chancellor, with the focu on one other arm would maybe work - that way there are three opportunities during the term to answer/educate
[09:19] Delia Lake: so the regular format would be to have 1 rep from each of the 3 branches? Might we periodically or occasionally do a public meeting deeper dive on the functioning of a particular branch?
[09:19] Callipygian Christensen: and certainly opening it to other eduverse folk is fine - although it will be embarrassing when some of them show up and no citizens bother
[09:19] Lilith Ivory: sadly in the past we always had the problem that no non government members showed
[09:20] Callipygian Christensen: No Delia - I was suggesting one branch, alternating
[09:20] Delia Lake: in the recent past that's so. in the older past though more people did show
[09:21] Delia Lake: Thanks, Calli
[09:21] Lilith Ivory: if I remeber correctly the law states that all three branches have to send a member to those govt question hours
[09:22] Delia Lake: So, Moon, when the new RA is installed, let's have a planning meeting as to how this would run and get it going again
[09:22] Moon Adamant: sure
[09:23] Moon Adamant: i am reading your ideas and concerns, i have some ideas that may help too, and definitely want to hear RA on this
[09:23] Delia Lake: as Chancellor, would you call this planning meeting please?
[09:24] Callipygian Christensen: It does, but since that law is years and years old and describes a formal meeting that we've seen isn't very practical for the purpose..I'd suggest amending that law to reflect a more appropriate process
[09:24] Lilith Ivory: good idea, especially as a lot of former chancellor refused to follow that law
[09:24] Delia Lake: I agree, Calli. one more law to recommend amending to fit with today
[09:25] Lilith Ivory: I kept reminding them - in vain
[09:26] Delia Lake: imo we will never have more candidates if people don't understand the basics of our democracy
[09:26] Callipygian Christensen: well there were discussions about the whole transcript thing - that it was too formal a process etc etc..so a review is a good thing
[09:26] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[09:27] Delia Lake: it's https://cdsdemocracy.org/faqs/nl-7-1-go ... -time-act/
[09:27] Delia Lake: originally passed in 2007 and updated in 2020 but again not followed
[09:29] Delia Lake: I also think the transcript requirement should be removed. while it's helpful for people who could not attend to read a transcript in this case it's almost counter productive. the point is to get people talking together
[09:29] Delia Lake: and to be able to ask questions without feeling like they should already know
[09:30] Lilith Ivory: I agree and also not everyone wants to have his comments posted on the forum
[09:31] Delia Lake: I don't have anything else that can't be continued either on the SC discussion page or during our next meeting, Do either of you, Calli or Lil?
[09:32] Lilith Ivory: not from my side atm
[09:34] Delia Lake: Would Sunday, Dec 4 work for you both as our next meeting date?
[09:34] Lilith Ivory: works fine for me
[09:34] Delia Lake: Calli?
[09:35] Delia Lake: Moon and Leslie, thank you both for coming today
[09:37] Leslie Allandale: My pleasure.
[09:37] Leslie Allandale: Thanks for alll you do.
[09:37] Moon Adamant: thank you all!
[09:38] Delia Lake: to be continued
[09:38] Delia Lake: Calli must be afk
[09:38] Delia Lake: Motion to Adjourn?
[09:39] Lilith Ivory: I second
[09:39] Delia Lake: In favor?
[09:39] Delia Lake: aye
[09:39] Lilith Ivory: aye
[09:40] Delia Lake: unless I hear differently from Calli later today, I'll post Dec 4 as our next meeting