Government Question Hour Transcript 12 April 2015

[Patroklus Murakami]

Patroklus Murakami: i've turned the recorder on for chat by the way
Patroklus Murakami: so we will put the transcript on the forums
Lilith Ivory: I can use both too but am not in a very talkative mood today
Patroklus Murakami: i'm happy either way
Lilith Ivory: oh so if I want to curse I do it in voice yes?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Oui
Patroklus Murakami: that's right lilith
Lilith Ivory grins
Patroklus Murakami: ok, so coop. any questions?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I am curious as to where we are with the current projects you have in the works
Patroklus Murakami: ok. which ones specifically?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: It seems the new sim has stalled, and I was wondering about the LA updates
Patroklus Murakami: so i'll take the last one first. the updates have been requested from the Land Use Commission. so the action is with them to commission the upgrades and get them built
Patroklus Murakami: the new region process is also partly with the LUC at the moment. let me find a relevant email
Lilith Ivory: Hi Calli
Patroklus Murakami: hi calli
Lilith Ivory: Hi Callis dogs
Hanta Multiple Rug 08: Restricted to owner only!
Callipygian Christensen: I cant see yet lol
Callipygian Christensen: hi everyone
Bells Semyorka: Hi Calli
Patroklus Murakami: yes, the new region is mostly with the LUC for consdieration. i need to look at the tier rates and overall income which I have yet to do
Callipygian Christensen: and I realized on seeing thisa announcement that I hadn't posted the trasncript from y Q hour - so apologies and will get it to you for the Exec forum Pat
Patroklus Murakami: thx calli. does that answer your questions coop?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: It does.
Callipygian Christensen: was the question - did Calli become a space cadet? lol
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Not this time
Patroklus Murakami: did you have any other questions of us coop? we seem to be blessed with exec and SC gov reps but you're our only citizen in attendance!
RogueGeek Cooperstone: It seems the Dean survived the session yesterday
Lilith Ivory grins
Callipygian Christensen: Apprently proving my ongoing (fill in something insulting) in the process *nod*
Callipygian Christensen: Did you have any questons about that meeting Coop?
Callipygian Christensen: Question hour is gov't, any of us
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I started making a list of previous Chancellors and RA members. Out of curiousity, how long have you been an elected official of any capacity Pat?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I'm up to the 12th session, and the notes get dodgier as I go back
Patroklus Murakami: for a fair chunk of the time I've been here coop. probably about half the time. i was on the RA a few times, chancellor after the byelection briefly and was on the SC for a time
Callipygian Christensen: I dropped you your own copy of that transcript , if you were asking about it Coop
RogueGeek Cooperstone: The only question I have for you Calli is what is the deal about showing up for SC sessions if you send in a card?
Callipygian Christensen: You mean the disagreement on whether someone sending a petition needs to be present?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Maybe I missed it, but Felicia was questioned, and I didn't see that Nolligan was asked
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Yes
Callipygian Christensen: It stems from a funndamental difference between the SC and the other arms of gov't.
Callipygian Christensen: RA and Execare *expected* to be swayed by the wil of the people..that is the point of representation and executive service
Callipygian Christensen: The SCs task is to objectively interpretand apply Conistiution and laws, and specifically *not* be swayed by emotional debate or desire
Callipygian Christensen: So a petition to the SC is a request to interpret a law or some part of the constiution, and may a include a request for actions...
Callipygian Christensen: Interpretation doesnt require , imo and histocially in practise, the presence of the petitioner
Callipygian Christensen: becasue, even if half the citizens of CDS showded up and said 'we dont agree with that line in the Constitution' our only reply should be 'then change it, but for now it stands'
RogueGeek Cooperstone: If the petition is sufficient on it's face it shouldn't require any help
RogueGeek Cooperstone: to be heard
Callipygian Christensen: yes - and it isn't a courtroom..we arent a judiciary
Callipygian Christensen: In the case yesterday, the other otpion was 'do not deal with it'..
Callipygian Christensen: try to call a special meeting (with the likelihood of only 3 presnt as these things go)...
Callipygian Christensen: or addres it at theMay meeting...
Callipygian Christensen: the bottom line is that no matter which route we took, someone could find reason to complain.
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I'm waiting to see what is decided on the 'what is enough' question
Callipygian Christensen: Since the petition requested removal from office, among man other things, dealing with sooner rather thnan later seemed apropos.
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I can agree with that
Callipygian Christensen: I will also point out, since no one seems to have yet, that JerryDon is posting a decision comment from a petition that was not his..
Callipygian Christensen: and then applying the existence of that decision t o his own.
Callipygian Christensen: Civildebate would go much better if people ensured they were stating things accurately
Bells Semyorka: Lovelies, I am heading to the amphitheater. Hope to see you all soon hugs
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Bye Bells
Patroklus Murakami: see you shortly bells
RogueGeek Cooperstone: When have the facts ever stopped anyone from arguing anything here?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Just saying
Callipygian Christensen: There is some truth to that indeed lol
Lilith Ivory grins
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Of course, there is a point where bellicose from all quarters seems to be the rule of the day
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Since there are no RA folks here...guess I'll have to sit on that one.
Callipygian Christensen: Yo've read a lot of old history in the Forums Coop..the CDS motto could easily be 'plus ce change..'
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I did see that the questions of how to handle unruly meeting goers is coming up
RogueGeek Cooperstone: the mottoe should be either "Lets get ready to Rumble" or "I'll be back"
Callipygian Christensen: If you have a question for RA Coop, you can still state it here on the transcript and it can be sent on to them to address, right Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: that has tended to be an issue mostly for the RA meetings.
Patroklus Murakami: yes calli. we can pass on qns to the RA for an answer
Callipygian Christensen: Coop, yes..we do need a term for leaves frequently but is never really gone' lol
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I was counting how many times some folks have stomped out in a huff, only to return later
Patroklus Murakami: yeah, that happens quite a bit
Patroklus Murakami: we used to have a rule forbidding 'departure ultimatums' in the constitution because in the early days it was considered to be very disruptive
Patroklus Murakami: "if I don't get my way, I'll leave!"
Patroklus Murakami: can't quite recall why we got rid of it but... we did
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Too many to keep track of?
Patroklus Murakami: haha! no, i think that we were in a more mature phase were it happened less often. and we had grown so that one individual storming off had less impact
Lilith Ivory: (or all became so lazy nobody thought about leaving anymore )
Callipygian Christensen: There is at times a 'tail wagging the dog' effect - I mean to post about that in reply to Josie if I have time later on the Forums
Callipygian Christensen: Josie said 'wouldnt it be better not to have this recalamation law and give the Chancellor dsicretion'..
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Since the census came out, is there a way for a normal person to compare notes, see who actually owns land...like going down to the tax office
Patroklus Murakami: i think i used to argue for things like that calli
Callipygian Christensen: which is what was in place for 9 years, until that law was written in response to a few very volcal voices saying 'but the Chancellor can show favouritism or be puntive'...
Patroklus Murakami: there is the land scanner coop which tracks who bought and sold land. we also have the hippo web tool but access is restricted to a number of land managers
RogueGeek Cooperstone: so the answer is no
Patroklus Murakami: it is used for setting land for sale. locking parcels and so on so access can't be made wider
Lilith Ivory: I wonder if the land scanners are set to public as I remember for a while they were
Callipygian Christensen: and a few more moderate voices saying, well they may ahve a good point...andsuddenly we have a law based on the beliefs of a very small group of people, replacing a system of long standing - the one Josie is describing.
Callipygian Christensen: Coop - the land scanners can be touched by anyone iirc
Patroklus Murakami: http://www.tospitimou.com/landscanner/v ... 5&month=04
Callipygian Christensen: I believe Widget has also been keeping an ongoing record - access to that may be an answer too
Patroklus Murakami: yes, i think it's on the portal. let me look
RogueGeek Cooperstone: That is not a list of ownership, only transactions
RogueGeek Cooperstone: it is
Lilith Ivory: that makes me wonder if widget is suppoest to give out this list to interested citizens?
Lilith Ivory: and if I for example have permission to answer questionf if person x or y is still a citizen
Callipygian Christensen: citizenship is public knowleged Lilith
Lilith Ivory smiles andn nods
Callipygian Christensen: you are certainly able to answer that
Patroklus Murakami: the problem coop is that we have two systems being used for land ownership - the yellow patches and hippo
Patroklus Murakami: we can only make our system work by using tools such as the land scanner which timo developed for us
Patroklus Murakami: so having an up-to=date list of who owns what at any point is quite tricky to achieve
RogueGeek Cooperstone: There are commercially available scanners
Patroklus Murakami: it's why we do the census manually according to a schedule for elections and by-elections
RogueGeek Cooperstone: and most estates have Hippos or others
Patroklus Murakami: could you let us have the links to them coop? that would be potentially helpful. tho i think sudane would already know of anything that might be useful to us
Callipygian Christensen: I knowTimo has been working on a system that combines everything in a way that provides what CDS needs.
RogueGeek Cooperstone: I'll look who made mine
Patroklus Murakami: yes, he has calli
Callipygian Christensen: the issue is usually that estates in general have a different use for the info than CDS, so they dont always provide what is needed in a 'one stop shop' way
Patroklus Murakami: tho personally i think we should just do away with land 'ownership' and use hippo on its own....
Callipygian Christensen: That removes the fundamental basis of CDS citizenship Pat
Callipygian Christensen: Not saing it is a good or bad idea..but pointing out that it pretty much removes the structure of citizenship as it is now
RogueGeek Cooperstone: one of the long standing deals is citizenship is tied to land ownership
Patroklus Murakami: not really calli. what we call 'ownership' is not really that
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Explain
Patroklus Murakami: the main defintion is 'having title' to land
Patroklus Murakami: just change that to mean 'up to date in tier payments' and you've solved the problem. having two systems is unnecessarily complex in my opinion
RogueGeek Cooperstone: it is because some things have to be played on LL rules
Callipygian Christensen: can thehippo track changes and provide records to show continuous 'title'?
RogueGeek Cooperstone: and you have to have two systems
Lilith Ivory: one might think paying one time to own a parcel, NOt deeding it to group any pay the tier is not asked for too much
RogueGeek Cooperstone: That is how it works in every other estate I've lived in. an EM sets the land, you buy it then pay a hippo meter
Patroklus Murakami: hmm. good qn calli. we can check hippo day to day but it does not really show continuous title
Callipygian Christensen: I suspect the optics would make peple even more suspicious of the possibility of their land being 'taken'
Lilith Ivory: what do you mean with that Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: And honestly, I am old fashioned enough tht if my name isnt on the land, I dont feel any attachment to it
Patroklus Murakami: that's the main issue calli - resistance. and ppl don't see the costs of our current system. it takes up huge amounts of lilith's time for example
Patroklus Murakami: ppl make mistakes buying and selling land all the time and it takes a lot of effort just to make things right
Callipygian Christensen: Pat - I am not defending this system..it sucks...
Callipygian Christensen: but I am not sure making us appear to be another 'feed the meter' estatte is the solution
Lilith Ivory: well, that?s right of course , people buy the land and "forget to pay tier or pay tier and don?t think about buying the parcel
RogueGeek Cooperstone: it is the same reason there has to be a single estate owner
RogueGeek Cooperstone: some things are governed by the Lab
Callipygian Christensen nods..LL limitations because the CDS model isnt the same as the primary ones they support
Patroklus Murakami: we are a bit of an oddity. and not one that's always on their radar
Callipygian Christensen: There are some very simple solutions, all of which would have the naysayers up in arms
RogueGeek Cooperstone: especially nowadays
Patroklus Murakami: (shall we wrap up in three mins? then we can go to the concert!)
Callipygian Christensen: A person coudld beocme a ctizen by posting a bond..
Lilith Ivory smiles and nods
RogueGeek Cooperstone: Some sims are doing that by annual payment
Callipygian Christensen: once that is held for the required number of days..citizenship is anonounced - from that pont on, or from time of depositing it, they need to pay tier on a parcel
Callipygian Christensen: you only have to track the tier maintenance then
Callipygian Christensen: but I dont see that really being less work - what do you do about people who like a change of view every few months and move about a lot within the estate?
Lilith Ivory: ok I`ll run and put my raincoat on
Lilith Ivory: see you later I hope
Patroklus Murakami: yes. let's all go to Colonia Nova to get wet!
Callipygian Christensen: and if someone lets their tier box expire , do they lose their land instantly to someoen wandering by who goes..oh!
Callipygian Christensen: I have to put on my wellies!
Patroklus Murakami: thx for coming folks. i'll stop the recorder now and post the transcript later