Anna Toussaint: ok, let;'s get started folks
Shep Titian: So we three might be egless by the end of thisw!!
Anna Toussaint: has everybody had a chabce to see the agenda
Anna Toussaint: chance?
Patroklus Murakami: yes ty anna
Shep Titian: Yes 
Anna Toussaint: any corrections, additions, gripes or bitches?
Pip Torok: i have ...
Patroklus Murakami: none from me
Anna Toussaint: k
Anna Toussaint: what. Pip?
Shep Titian: none
Anna Toussaint: Pip?
Anna Toussaint: going once, going twice ,...
Pip Torok: only to ask for speaking to oldbiz 1
Anna Toussaint: oh, ok
Anna Toussaint: so we're all happy with the agenda?
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Anna Toussaint: I'd like to thank Shep for putting it together, btw, and apologize to the RA for my absences lately
Shep Titian: YW
Anna Toussaint: computer problems and a move have kept me busy
Anna Toussaint: but the computer has been fixed
Anna Toussaint: hi, rosie
Shep Titian: Hi Rosie hun
Patroklus Murakami: hi rosie
Rosie Gray: hi everyone, sorry to be late
Lilith Ivory: Hi Rosie
Pip Torok: good and congrats, Anna
Anna Toussaint: ok, who's goiung to speak for these agenda items?
Anna Toussaint: Pip for #1, know
Pip Torok: me on OB1 as ive mentioned
Patroklus Murakami: happy to speak to my items
Anna Toussaint: I know
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: k, Calli dropped me a note
Anna Toussaint: CalliL?
Anna Toussaint: Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: I hope to speak to all notion on the floor today..and to save time, here is a link to my reponse to Pat's amended motions for today
Callipygian Christensen: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... =45#p19805
Anna Toussaint: great, thanks!
Delia Lake raises her hand re New Business regarding the SC
Delia Lake: and also the Balance of Power Act
Anna Toussaint: ok, got it,. Delia, thanks!
Lilith Ivory is not sure yet but might want to speak also
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Anna Toussaint: thanks, Lil, Soro?
Soro Dagostino: I will likely want time to speak.
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: any citizen concerns?
Anna Toussaint: RA members concerns?
Patroklus Murakami: none from me
Anna Toussaint: which is kinda redundant,. I guess
Anna Toussaint: Rosie is here to take care of our mouse problem
Anna Toussaint:
Shep Titian: nope am fine
Anna Toussaint: As Beathan is not here, we'll do a seven-day vote
Rosie Gray: ?
Anna Toussaint: ok, on to old business
Anna Toussaint: Calli, would you speak to the SCs decision regarding the legality of the last meeting?
Callipygian Christensen: Ok Anna
Callipygian Christensen: The SC found the meeting of April 28th t be invalid, therefore any business conducted during that meeting is also invalid
Callipygian Christensen: done
Anna Toussaint: thank you, Calli
Patroklus Murakami: i move we revote on the proposal to limit the RA to five seats
Anna Toussaint: so that is why we are revisiting old buisiness items 1 and 2
Anna Toussaint: ok, is there a second?
Rosie Gray: I will second that motion
Anna Toussaint: discussion?
Pip Torok raises hand
Anna Toussaint: pip?
Pip Torok: i ask the RA to reconsider OB1 for the same reason as i support revoking OB2 ..
Anna Toussaint: by reconsider, you mean vote it down this time?
Pip Torok: and that is the practical difficulties of working with only a quorate limit of 5 ..
Anna Toussaint: ah
Anna Toussaint: ok
Pip Torok: in the background of current financial constraints and consequent apathy done
Rosie Gray: can you expand on the practical difficulties, Pip?
Patroklus Murakami recalls that we had the most difficulty getting quorate meetings when we had larger RAs
Pip Torok: yes .. given the smallish number of registered voters and the infrequency (as today) of many ppl logging-in .. done
Anna Toussaint: actually, we have a quorate meeting now ...
Patroklus Murakami: i move that we vote on this. i can repost the original CA if you like
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend article 1 section 2 of the constitution so that instead of "The number of representative seats in the RA is equal to the odd whole number nearest to 10% of the population, rounded down, with a minimum of five seats and a maximum of forty seats." it reads "The number of representative seats in the RA is equal to five"
Pip Torok: the question is .. how often will we have one in any given term
Anna Toussaint: we have had them in every meeting
Patroklus Murakami: our record has been pretty good this term - with five members
Anna Toussaint: Pat has moved to call the question ...
Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
Pip Torok: i conceded that with the observation that
Shep Titian: second
Pip Torok: it depends on the RIGHT choice of ppl on the RA
Anna Toussaint: true
Anna Toussaint: but there is a motion to call the question, so all in favor say "aye"
Pip Torok: i should say the RIGHT combination of ppl and how they cooperate
Shep Titian: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Pip Torok: (sorry)
Anna Toussaint: all opposed vote naye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes nay
Anna Toussaint: the ayes have it
Anna Toussaint: we will vote on the original motion
Anna Toussaint: all in favor, vote "aye"
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Shep Titian: aye
Anna Toussaint: the chaIr votes aye
Anna Toussaint: the constitution has been amended
Shep Titian:
Anna Toussaint: by a vote of 80% of the RA
Anna Toussaint: now onto old business item #2
Patroklus Murakami: i move that we repeal CDSL 13-07 Term Limits Act
Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
Shep Titian: second
Anna Toussaint: discussion?
Anna Toussaint: anybody in the gallery care to comment?
Rosie Gray: I'm still reading Calli's post
Anna Toussaint: k
Callipygian Christensen: Rosie..that is relevant to later stuff
Delia Lake raises her hand
Rosie Gray: ah okay
Rosie Gray: sorry, yes Term Limits
Anna Toussaint: Delia?
Delia Lake: I don't feel overly strongly about this but just want to put out that sometimes it's good for politicians to have a break from a position for a term and then return with fresh eyes
Rosie Gray couldn't argue with that
Anna Toussaint: thank you, Delia
Anna Toussaint: anybody else want to speak to this?
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: all in favor, say "aye"
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Pip Torok: only to say that theses breaks can be taken without needing to enforce termlimits
Shep Titian: Aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Anna Toussaint: all opposed say "nay"
Anna Toussaint: the chair vote "nay"
Anna Toussaint: there is a seven day vote
Rosie Gray: ahem
Anna Toussaint: and as a constitutional amendment, it requires 60%
Anna Toussaint: yes>
Anna Toussaint: did I screw up?
Patroklus Murakami thinks it's only a bill
Rosie Gray: lol, no
Patroklus Murakami: so, has passed
Rosie Gray: think I maybe did
Anna Toussaint: ah, is it?
Anna Toussaint: I thought the term limits were constitutional
Patroklus Murakami: no, just a bill
Anna Toussaint: shows why I shouldn't be on the SC
Shep Titian: I'd agree .. constitutional
Anna Toussaint: but if they're not in the constituion, then they're not
Anna Toussaint: she says intelligently
Shep Titian: lol
Patroklus Murakami: the original was a bill, not a Const Amendment
Anna Toussaint: so, the motion has passed with three votes "aye"
Anna Toussaint:
Shep Titian: Good
Anna Toussaint:
Patroklus Murakami: i'm sure the SC will let us know if we got it wrong
Anna Toussaint: I would HOPE so ...
Patroklus Murakami waits for anna
Rosie Gray: oh oh
Patroklus Murakami: oh, we lost her 
Rosie Gray regurgitates some rat meat to chew on
Shep Titian: Lmao
Patroklus Murakami: now *that* has never been said in an RA meeting before!
Rosie Gray: ?
Patroklus Murakami: shall we give her a minute to relog?
Rosie Gray: I think we should
Pip Torok: and maybe never again? .. :]
Patroklus Murakami: *lot* to get through today...
Rosie Gray: yay!
Shep Titian: And Breathe
Patroklus Murakami: wb anna
Shep Titian: wb hun
Pip Torok: wb
Callipygian Christensen: I cant even bring myself to say the usual 'did you bring enough for evveryone?'
Anna Toussaint: sorry bout that
Anna Toussaint: sorry bout that
Shep Titian: * listens to the crunching of tiny bones 
Anna Toussaint: where were we?
Patroklus Murakami: i move the revised 'Scientific council affirmation procedures act' outlined here:
Patroklus Murakami: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... =45#p19802
Shep Titian: Teehee
Patroklus Murakami: new biz item 1)
Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
Shep Titian: I believe old business was concluded
Anna Toussaint:
Anna Toussaint: thanks
Rosie Gray: so seconded
Anna Toussaint: ok, discussion?
Patroklus Murakami: may i?
Anna Toussaint: yes
Patroklus Murakami: so, we have two reform proposals related tot eh SC to consider
Patroklus Murakami: the first is this bill, the second a constitutional amendment
Patroklus Murakami: the bill can pass without needing the CA
Patroklus Murakami: the purpose of the bill is to make sure that candidate SC members are always considered by the RA and a vote taken (in line with the constitution)
Patroklus Murakami: it closes the loophole left by NL 4-8 where this oversight could be bypassed
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: by accident or design
Anna Toussaint: are you finished, pat?
Patroklus Murakami: one more thing
Anna Toussaint: k
Patroklus Murakami: it opens up nominations to all citizens. the sC would provide advice to the RA on candidates but would not be able to filter them as at present. done
Anna Toussaint: Soro?
Soro Dagostino: I believe the process is constitutional. And needs that vote to pass.
Anna Toussaint: does it modify the constitution?
Patroklus Murakami: NL 4-8 is a bill, not a constituional amendment. this is not a constitutional amendment either
Patroklus Murakami: unless you want to argue that NL 4-8 was unconstitutional?
Soro Dagostino: Respectfully disagree.
Delia Lake raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: Delia?
Patroklus Murakami: actually i need to correct a mistake in my presentation. i may have misled you (including soro)
Anna Toussaint: first Delia, then Pat
Delia Lake: although the bill may be positioned as a replacement/negation of the Affirmation law, it also would materially affect the constitutionally described right of the SC tas a "a self-selected meritocracy. Its governmental role is to interpret and enforce the constitution. "
Anna Toussaint: done?
Anna Toussaint: Pat?
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Anna Toussaint: first Pat, then Soro
Patroklus Murakami: apologies, my presentation contained an inaccuracy
Patroklus Murakami: the bill *does not* alllow anyone to nominate sc members
Patroklus Murakami: that is in the constitutional amendment
Anna Toussaint: good ,... I thought I was missing something
Anna Toussaint:
Anna Toussaint: Soro?
Patroklus Murakami: what i intended to say is - regardless of whether we continue with the current 'self selection' or refrom the system, teh bill ensure that every candidate faces a vote of confidence by the RA
Soro Dagostino: I agree with the point made by Delia.
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Delia Lake raises her hand again
Anna Toussaint: Calli?
Soro Dagostino: The "legislation" intrudes on the constitutional right of the SC to appoint its own members.
Patroklus Murakami would like to hear *how* this bill affects the constitutuion. it does not
Anna Toussaint: oh, sorry ... thought you were done
Callipygian Christensen will wait for the exchange between Pat and Soro to end
Patroklus Murakami: done
Anna Toussaint: k
Soro Dagostino: done.
Anna Toussaint: Calli?
Callipygian Christensen: I posted a link earlier to my thoughts on both the bill and amendment
Callipygian Christensen: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... =45#p19805
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Callipygian Christensen: I believe this bill potentially cripples the SC for long periods of time, sets the scene for a refusal to affirm based on reasons not related to upholding the Consitution..
Callipygian Christensen: and will ultimately discourage good candiates from standing
Callipygian Christensen: In addition, the -no vote = fail' just rpelaces the ability for the RA to subvert the process in the way it claims the SC has done
Anna Toussaint: Pat, would you comment on how you feel the SC has subverted the process?
Callipygian Christensen: I dont believe amending this bill is the answer..I believe it should be defeated and a join committee should dvelop a practical, clear replacement
Callipygian Christensen: done
Anna Toussaint: thank you ... sorry
Anna Toussaint: the chair will remind the body that originally, we had settled on a joint committee
Soro Dagostino: /raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: i think the SC is *able* to subvert the process by proposing candidates at a time when they know the RA will find it difficult to meet. the 30 day rule then kicks in and the RA is unable to provide a vote of confidence *as in the constitution*
Anna Toussaint: I believe that is still in effect
Anna Toussaint: has that ever happened?
Patroklus Murakami: hold on a minute. the RA is free to bring forward its own proposals
Callipygian Christensen: what times does the RA find it 'difficult to meet'?
Anna Toussaint: it is
Patroklus Murakami: this was in my manifesto and beathan's
Patroklus Murakami: and i have met with the SC on several occasions
Anna Toussaint: but, we agreed on a joint committee
Anna Toussaint: what are the results of that?
Patroklus Murakami: it is clear we could not find a proposal acceptable to all
Delia Lake raises her hand in objection
Anna Toussaint: Delia?
Delia Lake: we never met as a whole committee of 4!
Patroklus Murakami: 2. The RA discussed the Scientific Council. It was proposed that Calli and Delia (for the SC) and Beathan and Pat (for the RA) should work together on draft proposals for discussion on reforming the way the SC does its work.
Patroklus Murakami: from 7 january meeting
Delia Lake: we met me, Pat and Calli, and Calli met with Beathan
Anna Toussaint: yes, I remember
Delia Lake: but never during this term did we meet as the whole committee.
Delia Lake: When Reform of the Scientific Council was raised in the RA this term, the RA set up a committee to look into this matter. Assigned to this Committee was Pat, Beathan, Calli and Delia (me). During this past term we did not meet ever as a whole group. We did discuss 1 on 1 and 3 together but not as all 4 together, so there are no official findings out of this Committee. It is my opinion that if this were such a burning issue that it must be accomplished this term, folks could have made a more concerted effort to find time for working out SC reforms as a committee. Instead, RA members have rushed to propose and pass their ideas of what constitutes SC reform circumventing the democratic process of the Committee which in the past has included public hearings regarding matters of a significant Constitutional change.
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
Anna Toussaint: was there a specific reason it did not meet?
Patroklus Murakami: difficult to find a time for all four of us to meet. very different time zones for some of us and limited availablity
Delia Lake: I was willing to meet at many different times and many different hours. even what would normally have been my sleeping hours
Patroklus Murakami: i don't accept this is a valid reason not to consider SC reform
Delia Lake: Calli, you were trying to arrange meeting times and may wish to speak to that
Patroklus Murakami: also, there was a difference in interests
Anna Toussaint: Calli has been trying to speK
Anna Toussaint: speak
Patroklus Murakami: i'm interested in reforming the SC as an institution
Anna Toussaint: Calli?
Delia Lake: excuse me Pat? setting up a RA committee, then circumventing it is not a valid reason not to push ahead?
Patroklus Murakami: others want to reform sC procerures
Callipygian Christensen: thank you Anna
Anna Toussaint: Calli has the floor
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Delia Lake: you! determined that there was a difference in interests all by yourself. Pat
Callipygian Christensen: There was 'fault' on both sides of the join commitee if fault must be found
Callipygian Christensen: Time diferences, availability, lack of response, RL cutting in to time to research and draft..
Callipygian Christensen: I will take the blame for that, since i was the one trying to arrange meetings
Callipygian Christensen: Instead of both 'sides' circling the wagons and laying blame, can we cut the rhetoric and accept, the committee did not meet and did not do its job..
Callipygian Christensen: reinstaet it * with timeframes* and lets get a true picture of what people see as good reform
Callipygian Christensen: 'we wont ever agree so why bother' is not a good reason to pass major legilation in haste imo
Anna Toussaint: as far as I know, it has not been DE-instated
Anna Toussaint: Pat?
Anna Toussaint: who is correct, btw, that a motion may be brought at any time by any RA member
Callipygian Christensen: I speak for myself as Dean, and state that the SC desires good reform of its roles and processes, but does not accept the right of another branch of govt to dicatet hose changes completely
Anna Toussaint: and there is one one the floor, and we will vote on it if it is not withdrawn
Soro Dagostino: me/raises hand
Anna Toussaint: sorry Calli, I jumped the gun
Callipygian Christensen: Done
Anna Toussaint: pat, then soro
Delia Lake raises her hand again
Patroklus Murakami: having met with beathan, delia and calli (tho not all together) it became clear to me that we would not be able to reach a consensus. the SC is an unelected body and some members want to preserve their privileges and resist reform. so it became clear to me that the RA would need to act. i posted proposals in line with my manifesto and we discussed this on the forums.
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: it is the right of the ra to consider constitutional reform and it is not bound by the SC on this. we do not need to ask permission to do what we were elected to do. and i'm afraid that calli's proposals just kick this to the long grass.
Patroklus Murakami: done
Anna Toussaint: Soro, then Deliam, then Treb
Soro Dagostino: Madame LRA . . .
Anna Toussaint:
Soro Dagostino: I submit the action requested in the motion on the floor is a constitutional matter.
Soro Dagostino: I note that as a member of the SC I will ask that it be flagged for review by the SC.
Anna Toussaint: well. if the RA votes it, the SC can declare it unconstitutional
Anna Toussaint: L:)
Anna Toussaint:
Anna Toussaint: Done, Soro?
Soro Dagostino: Done on that issue -- unless Pat speaks to it again.
Anna Toussaint: Delia?
Delia Lake: 2 different issues regarding this here from me. firstly, I take issue with Pat's statement above. The only meeting, in fact the only discussion I had with him this term was with Calli present as well. since Beathan could not make it the 3 of us agreed to have a purely informational discussion--i'm looking right now at my transcript of that meeting.
