See http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1838 for a non-normative (unofficial) index of the action items and main points from this meeting.
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Transcript of 25 April 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= "You", below)
Topic separators "----" inserted to separate agenda items
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[2008/04/26 8:59] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Neufreistadt/44/82/123
[2008/04/26 9:00] You: Good morning.
[2008/04/26 9:00] You: Or whatever's applicable MT :)
[2008/04/26 9:01] MT Lundquist: afternoon lol
[2008/04/26 9:01] You: Jon, how are you?
[2008/04/26 9:01] Jon Seattle: Hi Jamie :)
[2008/04/26 9:01] Jon Seattle: too busy :)
[2008/04/26 9:01] ThePrincess Parisi: exuse me please
[2008/04/26 9:01] Serra Anansi gave you To JPalisades: From his humble servant, Miss Serra.
[2008/04/26 9:01] Moon Adamant: hello everyone.
[2008/04/26 9:02] You: Let me take a second and send pings in the appropriate directions :) Good morning Prin
[2008/04/26 9:02] Jon Seattle hugs Moon
[2008/04/26 9:02] Jon Seattle: chat lag
[2008/04/26 9:02] You: Moon :)
[2008/04/26 9:02] Moon Adamant hugs Jon
[2008/04/26 9:02] ThePrincess Parisi: i need to be sort of excused a mintue jame sorry
[2008/04/26 9:02] ThePrincess Parisi: brb
[2008/04/26 9:03] Jon Seattle: Hi Justice :)
[2008/04/26 9:03] Justice Soothsayer: Hi
[2008/04/26 9:03] You: :) hello all - a moment while IMs are flying, please
[2008/04/26 9:04] MT Lundquist: back
[2008/04/26 9:05] Moon Adamant: hi Justice :)
[2008/04/26 9:05] You: Right. Waiting for Prin to return from BrB I think
[2008/04/26 9:06] You: I've pinged Beathan; Sonja gave regrets and is busy with RL commitments all weekend I think
[2008/04/26 9:06] You: the proposed agenda is here:
[2008/04/26 9:07] You: http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1816
[2008/04/26 9:08] Yogeswari Padar: hi guys
[2008/04/26 9:08] MT Lundquist: hi
[2008/04/26 9:08] Jon Seattle: Hi Yoge :)
[2008/04/26 9:08] You: While not yet in session, let me note two other things informally
[2008/04/26 9:08] You: (hello all)
[2008/04/26 9:08] You: 1. Polls close today
[2008/04/26 9:09] You: and 2. There's been some chat in the Forums about whether we ought to meet today (i.e., before they do)
[2008/04/26 9:09] Jon Seattle had better pay attention to #1 :)
[2008/04/26 9:09] MT Lundquist: when do the polls close
[2008/04/26 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: back
[2008/04/26 9:09] Jon Seattle: Noon SLT
[2008/04/26 9:09] Justice Soothsayer: 2 hours 51 mins
[2008/04/26 9:09] You: Just informationally, Jon, do you basically dump the DB results to Clauide at the end of the polling period? How's that actually work?
[2008/04/26 9:09] MT Lundquist: back in a minute
[2008/04/26 9:10] MT Lundquist: i need to vote
[2008/04/26 9:10] You: We have BV and TPP, and MT's out for a sec :)
[2008/04/26 9:10] Jon Seattle: Well, I download the votes and run the program that does the calculations. I then send the whole package, votes, program, and results to Claude via email.
[2008/04/26 9:10] You: thanks for the clarification
[2008/04/26 9:10] Beathan Vale: I'm not out
[2008/04/26 9:11] You: yes, and hello Beathan
[2008/04/26 9:11] You: soon as MT returns I suggest we begin - or in 3 mins if earlier
[2008/04/26 9:11] You: let's see. hm. Let me ask a delicate question - but one which is meant for constructive reasons.
[2008/04/26 9:12] Jon Seattle listens
[2008/04/26 9:12] You: Jon, there've been various bills and proposed bills about 'voting security' and the like. Nevertheless, if in future times we get into policy chats about the voting rules -- are any of the former results availability in detail in anonymized form? The sort of data that would allow multiple dispassionate people to say, ah, if we changed the rule *thus*, the results would have been "X". ...?
[2008/04/26 9:13] You: I just don;t know if we destroy them, or archive them, or what.
[2008/04/26 9:13] Jon Seattle: Ah, the votes I download will have no identifiers and be in random order
[2008/04/26 9:13] Jon Seattle: Claude can release them if he wishes
[2008/04/26 9:13] Jon Seattle: I support releasing them, and also the program that does the calculations
[2008/04/26 9:13] You: so the data's available, in short, if the various partries wished. Got it.
[2008/04/26 9:13] You: thanks
[2008/04/26 9:14] Jon Seattle: Indeed.
[2008/04/26 9:14] You: Hm - did we lose ThePrincess?
[2008/04/26 9:14] You: I will IM her then call us to order.
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[2008/04/26 9:14] You: OK, a litle slow, but we are called to order.
[2008/04/26 9:15] You: agenda here - http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1816
[2008/04/26 9:15] You: subject to the members :)
[2008/04/26 9:15] You: 1a - Would all present please assent to being included in the transcript - I assent.
[2008/04/26 9:15] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/04/26 9:15] Jon Seattle: I assent
[2008/04/26 9:15] Justice Soothsayer assents
[2008/04/26 9:16] MT Lundquist: i assent and apologise for being temporarily absent
[2008/04/26 9:16] You: Thank you ..will need recording assents from Beathan and Yogi
[2008/04/26 9:16] Beathan Vale: assent
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[2008/04/26 9:16] You: 1b
[2008/04/26 9:17] You: Any propsoed changes to agenda as posted? I note several itesm *may* be either just quick discussion, or skipped today
[2008/04/26 9:17] You: not hearing any
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[2008/04/26 9:17] You: 1c ...
[2008/04/26 9:18] You: any citizens (nonRA members) who want to get in queue now for any of the posted agenda items?
[2008/04/26 9:18] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/04/26 9:18] You: not hearing any, that's fine
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[2008/04/26 9:18] You: 1d
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: Routine request: if anyone sees flaws in the posted transcripts or summaries, please let me know - or just make a corrective posting -- but if you do the latter, please let me know, so I see it
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[2008/04/26 9:19] You: 1e
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: Future meetings (smile)
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: I've proposed, on the Forums, that I poll the 7 members as soon as the byelection results are announced
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: and post the results and proposed a next meeting
[2008/04/26 9:20] Jamie Palisades smiles and shrugs - any thoughts?
[2008/04/26 9:20] Beathan Vale: good proposal
[2008/04/26 9:20] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/04/26 9:20] You: Some may note that Arria used a free web polling device to set the debate time, as between the participants
[2008/04/26 9:20] You: :) I will see if I can adapt that
[2008/04/26 9:20] You: one more comment
[2008/04/26 9:21] You: I would like to see us stick with a fixed time - and I would DEARLY like to see us go biweekly
[2008/04/26 9:21] You: Your interim LRA thinks he is seeing evidence of meeting fatigue :D
[2008/04/26 9:21] You: but this is a matter for the 7 seated reps to sort out, shortly :)
[2008/04/26 9:21] Beathan Vale: it's been a rather bruising session
[2008/04/26 9:22] MT Lundquist: i agree we wait until the 7 are seated
[2008/04/26 9:22] You: Indeed. And thanks. Anything else on meetings?
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[2008/04/26 9:22] You: 1f then
[2008/04/26 9:22] You: which is consent items
[2008/04/26 9:22] You: and I have none. Anyone?
[2008/04/26 9:23] Beathan Vale: Any opposition to Conflict of interest?
[2008/04/26 9:23] MT Lundquist: none
[2008/04/26 9:23] You: Hmn - there are 2 or 3 bills BV, so I have a slot for it on this agenda
[2008/04/26 9:23] You: I suspect at least some chat will be needed
[2008/04/26 9:23] You: also Prin should be here for that if possible
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: I put the LRA bill next, as that might read directly on the pending elections ...
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: which also is true about C of I
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: .. so...
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[2008/04/26 9:24] You: 2
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: LRA
[2008/04/26 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: shiuaakss
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: by way of procedure
[2008/04/26 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: no i dont wanna go every other week
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: (:) WB TPP)
[2008/04/26 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks i will leave again
[2008/04/26 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: none of nucare voted
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: OK, let's chat with new RA about that
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i htought we had til next week
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: eh?
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: w.e i dont care
[2008/04/26 9:25] Jamie Palisades smiles ...
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: item 2
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: LRA bills
[2008/04/26 9:25] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: we have the March bill
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: (see mny agenda - the URI is in there)
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: and mT has updated it
[2008/04/26 9:25] MT Lundquist: well its been posted on the forum
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i know
[2008/04/26 9:25] MT Lundquist: as people have seen and commented
[2008/04/26 9:26] You: this week, yes, so that's the first one we take up I think
[2008/04/26 9:26] MT Lundquist: there are 2 proposals
[2008/04/26 9:26] You: Your ball, MT
[2008/04/26 9:26] MT Lundquist: both intended to balance power in cds
[2008/04/26 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: whos out of order jamie or MT
[2008/04/26 9:26] Jamie Palisades smiles and points to MT as the person who has the floor, and this bill
[2008/04/26 9:26] MT Lundquist: the first is to ensure that the ra is led by consent of ra members
[2008/04/26 9:27] MT Lundquist: ensuring that the RA meetings are constructive and benificial to CDS
[2008/04/26 9:27] MT Lundquist: the second is to balance the power to citizens
[2008/04/26 9:27] MT Lundquist: to ensure they have a direct voice in government and to balance the power of the ra to some extent
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: so election of lra by the ra
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: and direct election of chancellor by citizens as one package
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: oh
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: and the bill has been discussed by most ra factions before the final version was draw up
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: may i answer one of justices comments
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: on the forum
[2008/04/26 9:29] You: certainly
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: he said he didnt see a motivation that was constructive for interwtwining the two
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: and he said ..........
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: that it was for devisive purposes
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: but..
[2008/04/26 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: the reason is the two balance each other
[2008/04/26 9:30] Yogeswari Padar: point of order
[2008/04/26 9:30] Beathan Vale: intertwining the two was at my insistence -- because I did not want to take away a role that served the entire CDS in an elected rather than selected capacity without replacing it with a similar role
[2008/04/26 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: and that only one
[2008/04/26 9:30] Yogeswari Padar: the person you are quoting is "way" at present
[2008/04/26 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks beathan
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: quoting?
[2008/04/26 9:31] Yogeswari Padar: perhaps you could wait until he returns?
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: its in the forum
[2008/04/26 9:31] Moon Adamant: common pooliteness :)
[2008/04/26 9:31] Moon Adamant: let justice speak also
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: im sure he can read back
[2008/04/26 9:31] You: :)
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: and speak when he returnes
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you moon
[2008/04/26 9:31] Moon Adamant: i hold my peace :9
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie should i wait
[2008/04/26 9:32] You: Prin? You have any more for now? Justice can speak if & when he wishes
[2008/04/26 9:32] You: You;re here, it;s on the record :)
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: well i want ppl to know clearly that our motivation was not as accused by the opposition
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: on the forums
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: for log rolling
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: but infact to GIVE to the people
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: the power they deserve
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: amen
[2008/04/26 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: ad the LRA loses a bit of control, via the largest faction
[2008/04/26 9:33] You: ok. Done?
[2008/04/26 9:33] You: :)
[2008/04/26 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: the ppl can choose that he
[2008/04/26 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: Chanellor
[2008/04/26 9:33] Beathan Vale: <--- needs coffee -- brb
[2008/04/26 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: has that power and more
[2008/04/26 9:33] Beathan Vale: but first -- I move that we continue this one week
[2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: and that the chancellor does NOT have to be tied for the sake of theRA vote
[2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: it gives the popluatoin MORE choice
[2008/04/26 9:34] Beathan Vale: it is a Constitutional amendment and we lack the attendance needed to pass such without SC scrutiny
[2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: More power
[2008/04/26 9:34] Beathan Vale: and Lord preserve us from SC scrutiny ;-)
[2008/04/26 9:34] You: hm
[2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: and MORE influence on their community and their government
[2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: for the record
[2008/04/26 9:34] MT Lundquist: i thought we have 7 day vote
[2008/04/26 9:35] You: let's let TP finish her remarks, then deal with that, BV
[2008/04/26 9:35] MT Lundquist: then we have 5
[2008/04/26 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: as our absent RA person knows and believes
[2008/04/26 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: should be
[2008/04/26 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i am done
[2008/04/26 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks
[2008/04/26 9:36] You: OK thanks. I have a few procedural items, and BV's suggestion. Can we move straight to those, before more chat about the substance?
[2008/04/26 9:36] Jon Seattle: Hi Gwyn :)
[2008/04/26 9:36] MT Lundquist: hi Gwyn
[2008/04/26 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi hi :)
[2008/04/26 9:36] Yogeswari Padar: hi gwyn!
[2008/04/26 9:36] You: (Yogi, Gwyn, please assent to recording.)
[2008/04/26 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: jon?
[2008/04/26 9:36] You: MT, I have a question, just for clarity -- Your post (thread 1806 from 23 April) looks like it has two parts - a bill headed "Election of LRA by the members of the RA" .. with the actual text after the line "Amendment" ... and then, some lines down, a second part headed "Direct Election of Chancellor".. again, with specific amending language after the explanation. SO: do I have it right that you are moving to enact both halves at once? Just want to make sure :)
[2008/04/26 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/04/26 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, record at will, Mr LRA!
[2008/04/26 9:37] MT Lundquist: yes the aim is to have both together
[2008/04/26 9:37] MT Lundquist: as one bill
[2008/04/26 9:37] You: OK.
[2008/04/26 9:37] MT Lundquist: i just separated it for clarity
[2008/04/26 9:37] Beathan Vale: I have indicated that I am opposed to considering them separately
[2008/04/26 9:38] You: Thanks. Good to have that clear. "Package deal." But before you have made a motion to adopt it - which we haven't had yet - Beathan moved to delay it a week. I think?
[2008/04/26 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: because when you take one away you give it to the other
[2008/04/26 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: so they ahve to be the same
[2008/04/26 9:38] You: Beathan? Are you suggesting a delay to next meeting?
[2008/04/26 9:38] Beathan Vale: if both the Chancellor and the LRA has an electoral mandate -- it is unclear who is electoral head of state; if neither do, we have no person represented the entire CDS
[2008/04/26 9:38] Beathan Vale: I think so -- we should have 5 in attendance then
[2008/04/26 9:39] MT Lundquist: why would the 7 day vote not count
[2008/04/26 9:39] Beathan Vale: if we pass this 4 with 1 abstain -- it is not a clear Constit vote
[2008/04/26 9:39] Beathan Vale: well -- a 7 day vote could do it too
[2008/04/26 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: whos abstaining
[2008/04/26 9:39] You: OK just to clarify, note that without 5 votes in favor, some of our more, er, conservative, rightwiong legalists :D might dispute that a constitutional amendment is effective
[2008/04/26 9:39] You: hm
[2008/04/26 9:39] Beathan Vale: Sonja not here -- and I was not aware that anyone had requested a 7 day vote
[2008/04/26 9:39] You: Prin? Here's the thing: Sonja did not request a 7 day vote
[2008/04/26 9:40] Walking Sounds Copy/Trans SFD V2 copy mod trans: Couldn't find sound 1
[2008/04/26 9:40] You: and so far as I know -- help me out here people, the 7 day rule predates me -- no one but the member can ask for a 7 day hold for that person. Si?
[2008/04/26 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/26 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i ask for this for sonja
[2008/04/26 9:40] Beathan Vale: I think that we can even set a 7 day vote for ourselves if we want more time
[2008/04/26 9:40] You: kk so we can have four votes today, or 5 to 7 next nmeeting, I guess
[2008/04/26 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/26 9:40] You: hmm
[2008/04/26 9:41] Beathan Vale: so -- I amend my motion to allow for a seven day vote
[2008/04/26 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: and we dont have to vote at all if we dont want
[2008/04/26 9:41] MT Lundquist: seconf bv
[2008/04/26 9:41] You: Ok, good, we have a motion and second :) Jamie likes clarity of process
[2008/04/26 9:41] You: now
[2008/04/26 9:42] You: BV as motion proponent, tell me :D if we, a quorate 4-out-of-5 RA enter a 7 day vote today, 2 hours before polls close ...
[2008/04/26 9:42] You: ... then 7 days later, we get 4 of 5 votes in a 7-member RA ...
[2008/04/26 9:42] You: :) I have two questions
[2008/04/26 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn 's mind explodes.
[2008/04/26 9:42] Beathan Vale: ah -- I see
[2008/04/26 9:42] Beathan Vale: yeah -- that is a serious problem -- better to just wait a week
[2008/04/26 9:42] You: Indeed. Keep the shrapnel please :D ... (1) can the new 2 vote? and
[2008/04/26 9:43] You: (2) wouldn't the 2/3rds be 5, then, anyway, due to the 7 seats been filled? :D
[2008/04/26 9:43] You: yah
[2008/04/26 9:43] You: you may withdraw your motion, or we can vote on it :)
[2008/04/26 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i need a few seconds sorry
[2008/04/26 9:43] Beathan Vale: yes -- but I think that the SC is ready to rule that 2/3 is 5 in any case
[2008/04/26 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: can we hold a second
[2008/04/26 9:43] You: NP - I think we all do
[2008/04/26 9:44] Beathan Vale: I would rather not have the leadership of the RA held in the balance on a Cosntitutional test case
[2008/04/26 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i would
[2008/04/26 9:44] Beathan Vale: lol
[2008/04/26 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: well i would
[2008/04/26 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn would side with Beathan too
[2008/04/26 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and why, Princess??
[2008/04/26 9:45] You: :) then you can each vote differently :) May I suggest that Beathan, then Prin, then any citizens, speak for up to 2 mins., then we vote?
[2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i think its a good bil
[2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and i dont want to second guess SC and not do it because of that
[2008/04/26 9:45] You: the motion being, 7 day hold
[2008/04/26 9:45] Beathan Vale: I withdraw my motion
[2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and i KNOW that it is exactly what sonja sings all day
[2008/04/26 9:45] You: ok
[2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: that the people get the power
[2008/04/26 9:45] Beathan Vale: let's just vote on the bill -- it will be confusin no matter what we do
[2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: DPU and sonja are for letting the ppl have a say
[2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and this does that
[2008/04/26 9:46] You: That would work
[2008/04/26 9:46] MT Lundquist: ok i propose the bill
[2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: thats why
[2008/04/26 9:46] You: either we vote now - or not, kids. MT or Prin, do you wish to move the adoption of MT's bill at this time?
[2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: but im only one person
[2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: well sort of two
[2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: but really one
[2008/04/26 9:46] Beathan Vale: and if we can't pass it now -- for some reason -- we can revise it and try again
[2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe three or four
[2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/04/26 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :D
[2008/04/26 9:47] Jamie Palisades smiles: ah - we have amotion and second (perks up)
[2008/04/26 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i said second
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: it was just in a bunch of number talk
[2008/04/26 9:48] You: any one wish to speak further to it? I do, but will wait my turn if there are others
[2008/04/26 9:48] You: :)
[2008/04/26 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: well i want to say that i think this is crucial to our survival and our call to make sure the population
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: has a great deal of power choice and control over the government
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: this is a movee,ent in that direction
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: it follows the evolution of CDS
[2008/04/26 9:48] You: (me notes Prin, then Gwyn, then me, so far)
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: the old way is archaic
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: in my opinion
[2008/04/26 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: and the new way takes in to consideration our new found participation
[2008/04/26 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: stable membership
[2008/04/26 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: and growth
[2008/04/26 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: .. ill stop
[2008/04/26 9:49] You: TY. Gwyn?
[2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I just wanted to underline,
[2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that no matter what gets decided today (or not)
[2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's ALWAYS better to have a decision by the RA
[2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which becomes an amendment -- or law
[2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: instead of relying on the SC to "interpret" things.
[2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: uh um
[2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: ALWAYS
[2008/04/26 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So as a matter of principle, I'd always recommend voting on laws/amendments instead of leaving things "Undefined"....
[2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: is never true
[2008/04/26 9:51] You: sh :)
[2008/04/26 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, always, Princess. The will of the people should be more impºortant than the will of a few ;)
[2008/04/26 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that's all, thank you Mr LRA :)
[2008/04/26 9:51] Beathan Vale: in this case, "Always" might be true
[2008/04/26 9:51] You: others? Prin?
[2008/04/26 9:51] You: Beathan? MT?
[2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: the SC should not be there then? no i think clarifying things is sometimes necessary
[2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and i think that her assumptions are false
[2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: so her statement is false too
[2008/04/26 9:52] Beathan Vale: TP - necessary -- but it is better if the RA is clear and complete
[2008/04/26 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: we are not saying that the RA wont decide this
[2008/04/26 9:52] Beathan Vale: interpretation of the law is always more messy than law making
[2008/04/26 9:52] Moon Adamant: her?
[2008/04/26 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that's a logical fallacy, Princess, if my assumptions are false, everything which I say is true ;)
[2008/04/26 9:52] Moon Adamant: sorry, who?
[2008/04/26 9:52] Yogeswari Padar is confused
[2008/04/26 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I'll leave the mathematical proof as an exercise :) )
[2008/04/26 9:52] You: :) a little free chat here probably is no harm, but does anyone have any *new* points relevant to the motion?
[2008/04/26 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i think you are being quite disrespectful gwyen
[2008/04/26 9:53] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/04/26 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: and inapporpriate and i call fro a
[2008/04/26 9:53] Beathan Vale: call the question
[2008/04/26 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: warneing of her
[2008/04/26 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: im in an RA seat and i expect you to not talk to me that way here
[2008/04/26 9:53] You: Prin I could not tell if you had more to say about the motion, ...
[2008/04/26 9:53] You: but on the point of order
[2008/04/26 9:53] You: I thikn we can stop now without action, if we all stop not :)
[2008/04/26 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont but i dont apprecaitae that from the gallery
[2008/04/26 9:53] You: now
[2008/04/26 9:53] Moon Adamant has heard no unpoliteness
[2008/04/26 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: and you too moon
[2008/04/26 9:54] Yogeswari Padar hasn't either
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: OK. Prin;s objection to Gwyn's comment is noted. Can we move on?
[2008/04/26 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: that faction knows no way to act but to attack
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: ...
[2008/04/26 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: sick of it
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: ...
[2008/04/26 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: on
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: right, thx
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: I woud like to speak on the motion
[2008/04/26 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmativ ... ve_premise (I can't argue against facts)
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: :)
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: Gwyn hush
[2008/04/26 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)
[2008/04/26 9:55] You: smile not, smart pants, you shouldn;t interrupt either :)
[2008/04/26 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's called "defense of honour", Mr LRA.
[2008/04/26 9:55] Justice Soothsayer: back
[2008/04/26 9:55] You: well hm - do we have the Code Duello in force yet? .....
[2008/04/26 9:55] You: OK
[2008/04/26 9:55] You: Justice -
[2008/04/26 9:55] Justice Soothsayer: yes, Jamie?
[2008/04/26 9:55] Justice Soothsayer scrolls back
[2008/04/26 9:56] You: we have a motion and second to approve MT's bill, and you had comment son the forum about it. Do you wish to speak to therm? 2 mins - I will wait my turn, as you were gone.
[2008/04/26 9:56] Justice Soothsayer: thanks Jamie
[2008/04/26 9:56] You: then I;d like to talk. Then I;d like to get other comments, and *vote*
[2008/04/26 9:56] You: go pls
[2008/04/26 9:56] Justice Soothsayer: I will refer all to my forum post. I think this should be 2 separate bills.
[2008/04/26 9:56] Justice Soothsayer: At this time, it might make sense to move forward with the LRA bill.
[2008/04/26 9:57] Justice Soothsayer: But direct election of the chancellor is such a fundamental altering of our representative democracy that I think it would make more sense for a fuller debate
[2008/04/26 9:57] Justice Soothsayer: engaging all of the citizenry.
[2008/04/26 9:58] Justice Soothsayer: And giving the proponents to fully explain what may be broken that should be fixed.
[2008/04/26 9:58] Justice Soothsayer: Thanks for listening.
[2008/04/26 9:58] Justice Soothsayer returns the floor to Jamie
[2008/04/26 9:58] You: thx
[2008/04/26 9:58] You: OK. My comments - noting that we are over time, but I won;t aks the RA to extend formally unless anyone else has comments after mine, and we just have our vote and close it out.
[2008/04/26 9:59] You: I like the bill. I think we should go in that direction. But I think it's unseemly to make a big big set of constitutional changes like that *just* before we have our 2 new members seated. Not illegeal! We DO have that power in my view. Just unwise, as a policy matter.
[2008/04/26 9:59] You: it might *look* to some like we're playing keep-away with it and keeping the newly seated members from voicing views.
[2008/04/26 9:59] You: So I will abstain when we vote - which has this affect
[2008/04/26 9:59] You: 1. The thre eof you still can pass this now
[2008/04/26 9:59] You: 2. It might be a valid constitutional amendment
[2008/04/26 10:00] You: 3. Though some troglo - er - conservativ - er - long time membes may argue to the SC differently
[2008/04/26 10:00] You: 4 I think they'd be wrong :) but I'm not on the SC - or even the frctaion of it that would, in any decent world, not be recused
[2008/04/26 10:00] You: and finally
[2008/04/26 10:01] MT Lundquist: if you are about to abstain Jamie then i with draw the bill this week and ask that it is considered next weekwhen your objections are removed by events
[2008/04/26 10:01] You: That's fine with me, but up to you
[2008/04/26 10:01] Beathan Vale: good
[2008/04/26 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: thank u
[2008/04/26 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i would likek to speak still to what justice says
[2008/04/26 10:01] Beathan Vale: but I do want to address Justice's comments briefly before we move on
[2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: and that one, someone voting for RA seats.. will not necesarrily vote teh samae faction in a vote for chancellor and infact the chancelor can be no faction so that point is moot
[2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: also they are intwined cos one takes power away and one gives it back
[2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: done bV
[2008/04/26 10:02] You: ok then
[2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: hehee
[2008/04/26 10:02] You: any more chat on this item at this time?
[2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: bv does
[2008/04/26 10:02] Beathan Vale: the measures are intertwined at my insistence for these reasons
[2008/04/26 10:02] Beathan Vale: yes -- me
[2008/04/26 10:03] You: And Prin, right?
[2008/04/26 10:03] You: BV first please
[2008/04/26 10:03] Beathan Vale: First, with regard to direct election of chancellor -- this is not an undebated item
[2008/04/26 10:03] You: oh hang on - sorry :P I forgot - we are way over time. Any RA memebr object to a 5 minute extenion? (If not, please talk BV)
[2008/04/26 10:03] Beathan Vale: by my reckoning, we have actively, as a community, debated this change for three RA terms
[2008/04/26 10:04] Beathan Vale: the need for the change became most apparent this term -- when there appears to have been some strange machinations and unseemly horsetrading in the Chancellor election
[2008/04/26 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/04/26 10:04] Beathan Vale: not sure what happened -- but it seemed strange
[2008/04/26 10:04] Beathan Vale: but the larger point it is that historically the LRA has had the role of elected head of state -- has the best claim to an electoral mandate
[2008/04/26 10:05] Beathan Vale: that is an important role -- but changin the way the LRA is selected will remove tht role
[2008/04/26 10:05] MT Lundquist: raises hand
[2008/04/26 10:05] Beathan Vale: we should not remove it without replacing it -- thus my insistence of linking the LRA change with the direct election of Chancellor
[2008/04/26 10:05] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/04/26 10:05] You: (I have BV, then Prin, then MT)
[2008/04/26 10:05] You: Prin?
[2008/04/26 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: im done
[2008/04/26 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i did mine while you were thinking
[2008/04/26 10:05] You: kk
[2008/04/26 10:05] You: :) MT
[2008/04/26 10:06] You: anything more?
[2008/04/26 10:06] MT Lundquist: a final point the current election of the chancellor is made by ra mambers
[2008/04/26 10:06] MT Lundquist: these members are by definition faction members
[2008/04/26 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: but
[2008/04/26 10:07] MT Lundquist: the election of the chancellor can have non faction participants
[2008/04/26 10:07] MT Lundquist: so i believe that moving to direct elections will allow better opportunities for independant candidates
[2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: well its more than that
[2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: its a fatal flaw
[2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: it means that the independent by justices logic
[2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: has NO
[2008/04/26 10:08] You: any more on this one?
[2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: NO chance of becomeing chancellor
[2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: so it MUST be tpu the peopel
[2008/04/26 10:09] You: sorry :) can we limit any further to 60 secs? we atre way over time
[2008/04/26 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: the ppl must vote for chancellor if we have ppl who can run for chanceloor who are not factin meembers
[2008/04/26 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/04/26 10:09] You: ok
[2008/04/26 10:09] You: next item hm?
----
[2008/04/26 10:09] You: 3
[2008/04/26 10:09] You: conflicts of interest
[2008/04/26 10:10] You: we have a number of threads going, let me just indetiofy them
[2008/04/26 10:10] You: 1. a PMRobert Walpole citizen bill, discussed at 12 APril meeting
[2008/04/26 10:10] You: and Sonja made the point then that it might actually be 2 bills
[2008/04/26 10:10] You: 2. My proposal also mentioned them
[2008/04/26 10:10] You: then
[2008/04/26 10:11] You: (URI in the agenda today)
[2008/04/26 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: well i have a problem with term linits
[2008/04/26 10:11] You: 3. a comment from the debates -
[2008/04/26 10:11] You: about maybe changing the oath of office.
[2008/04/26 10:11] You: OK done with the landscape. Comments? Motions? Prin?
[2008/04/26 10:11] You: comments on term limits?
[2008/04/26 10:11] Moon Adamant: afk
[2008/04/26 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: well
[2008/04/26 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i am not really sure about this for all of us.. id like to know what pl think.. my faction has them already
[2008/04/26 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: term limits i mean
[2008/04/26 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: the rest i am very good with
[2008/04/26 10:13] You: If you are done, let me ask - is anyone planning to ask for a bill to be brought by motion today? I'm not - and if no-one is this, can be a short chat :)
[2008/04/26 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: i think the limitation of switching roles
[2008/04/26 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: like i think that what gwyen and justice just did is awful
[2008/04/26 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: and completly morally unethical
[2008/04/26 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: and also should be illegal
[2008/04/26 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/26 10:14] Moon Adamant: back
[2008/04/26 10:14] You: I'd expect they may wish to respond -- just to be clear, you mean running for RA while sitting on SC, I assume
[2008/04/26 10:14] Beathan Vale: I have one comment
[2008/04/26 10:14] You: Is Prin done?
[2008/04/26 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: she is for now
[2008/04/26 10:15] You: OK, BV?
[2008/04/26 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (me next?)
[2008/04/26 10:15] You: (OK)
[2008/04/26 10:15] Beathan Vale: I oppose passing the commulative mandates bill as presented until after this election -- as doing so would cast doubt on most of the candidacies
[2008/04/26 10:16] Beathan Vale: I also don't think that it is such an awful thing for a person holding one office to run for another -- that seems routine -- although such person should recuse from official acts concerning the election in which they are a candidate
[2008/04/26 10:16] Beathan Vale: however, I also see no problem with putting the kind of restrictions Walpole proposes in place -- in the future
[2008/04/26 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: but they didnt
[2008/04/26 10:17] You: (I think Beathan's still talking)
[2008/04/26 10:17] Beathan Vale: In the passed -- we have had too much turnover in government; we appear more stable at the moment -- so I see no reason not to create a revolving door process
[2008/04/26 10:17] Beathan Vale: that is all
[2008/04/26 10:17] You: (I have Gwyn, then Prin if she has more.)
[2008/04/26 10:17] You: Gwyneth?
[2008/04/26 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well
[2008/04/26 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm not sure if I have much to add after Beathan's comment, but basically:
[2008/04/26 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) For the record, nothing forbids people to *quit* one branch of Government to go to another
[2008/04/26 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if they feel they can do more productive work there.
[2008/04/26 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both Justice and myself resigned from the SC.
[2008/04/26 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And so did Pat, before he became LRA
[2008/04/26 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi hold us her hand
[2008/04/26 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) For the record too, I'm also fully supportive of better rules
[2008/04/26 10:19] Beathan Vale: actaully Pat overlapped as a nonvoting member of the SC for quite a spell while on the RA
[2008/04/26 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to clearly define how "terms" are counted
[2008/04/26 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, technically, yes, beathan, but the SC did not met
[2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 3) my only concern is just one: the elections are over in an hour and a half
[2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: eliminating candidates one hour and a half before the polls close is a BIT out of order :)
[2008/04/26 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and .. indeed you and just ice qit but only AFTER you had voted for laws that ALLOWED yu and your faction to do what you did.. and mde the laws to make it happen
[2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But, then again, the RA has all the power to do it.
[2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for interrupting me again, Princess. I appreciate it.
[2008/04/26 10:20] You: ...
[2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And thanks, LRA, I'm finished.
[2008/04/26 10:21] You: Interruptions do see to be a plague here
[2008/04/26 10:21] You: and as Prin points out I;m not immune either
[2008/04/26 10:21] You: any other comments on this?
[2008/04/26 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: for the record the citizens need to be clear and research your "facts" gwyen
[2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: you were in the SC making rules as you were at the same time .. you
[2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: you were listining in on faction meetings voting
[2008/04/26 10:22] Beathan Vale: I want to propose an amendment removing paragraph 3 from the noncummulation bill
[2008/04/26 10:22] You: hmmmm
[2008/04/26 10:22] Moon Adamant: that's a serious accusation
[2008/04/26 10:22] You: hang on all for a sec please
[2008/04/26 10:22] You: ty
[2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: and then making rules that let you run for a seat that many think you should not be ale to do
[2008/04/26 10:22] You: now
[2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i know
[2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: i only said
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: rsearch
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: dont believe blindly
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen has twisted some things
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: lsten moon
[2008/04/26 10:23] Beathan Vale: I want to replace it with "this bill shall come into effect at the end of the current term of the RA; all terms of office shall coincide with the term in the RA
[2008/04/26 10:23] You: Prin is noting a personal objection to anyone who acts as SC election adminbistrator and RA candidate in a ballot simultaneously ...
[2008/04/26 10:23] You: I think that observation of Prin's is perfectly appropriate in a legislative body
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: now that pat is gone.. i have the.............
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: most votes by citizens, i bevlie i am called to say what i think
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i am supposed to say what i think
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: and thats what i think
[2008/04/26 10:24] You: but let's not beat it to death by reptetition, or departing from polite tones
[2008/04/26 10:24] You: I thikn Prin's had her say
[2008/04/26 10:24] Moon Adamant: i can but agree with the LRA
[2008/04/26 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who did "acts as SC election adminbistrator and RA candidate in a ballot simultaneously"?
[2008/04/26 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: its the truth that gwyen was in the SC and in the faction causeing our disruption this term making rules that allower HER to run for RA
[2008/04/26 10:24] You: and I invite Gwyn or Justice tpo say anythign else by way of appropriaet rebuttal if they wish - then let;s get to process and BV's point
[2008/04/26 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: was that false gwyen.. no it wasnt
[2008/04/26 10:24] You: Prin can you please say yuor final word now and then indicate you;re done
[2008/04/26 10:25] You: (my alternative is to go to 60 sec time limits and ejections .. of anyone :) ... or ask the RA to adjourn immediately)
[2008/04/26 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i hope all the citizens know the truth and seeek it out thats all im done
[2008/04/26 10:25] You: Thanks.
[2008/04/26 10:25] You: Gwyn did you have something else brief?
[2008/04/26 10:25] Justice Soothsayer: thanks, Jamie. I'll just say that Gwyn and I both became candidates AFTER the SC decided the challenge to the by-election - which, by the way, we upheld what the RA did. Nothing further from me.
[2008/04/26 10:25] You: acknowl, Justice
[2008/04/26 10:26] Jamie Palisades waits for more, and sees none
[2008/04/26 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd like just to know who was at the same time a candidate for the RA and a supervisor of the elections... that's all from me too.
[2008/04/26 10:26] You: OK. I'd like that to go to Forums please
[2008/04/26 10:26] Beathan Vale: Gwyn -- they do that all the time in Zimbabwe
[2008/04/26 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks.
[2008/04/26 10:26] You: BV. you proposed an amendment
[2008/04/26 10:26] You: but we have no motion
[2008/04/26 10:26] Beathan Vale: lol -- Florida and Ohio too
[2008/04/26 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: that is an irrelevant point to ward off your truth of what you did
[2008/04/26 10:26] You: so
[2008/04/26 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, what *exactly* am I being accused of?
[2008/04/26 10:26] Jamie Palisades notes a need for fire extinguishers
[2008/04/26 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: not accused of but the FACT
[2008/04/26 10:27] You: excuse me all
[2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: that you were in teh SC, and the faction making rules.. oh gosh just read back
[2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: nothing
[2008/04/26 10:27] Beathan Vale: but -- luckily -- our folks are too busy and too ethical
[2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: an appearance of conflict of interest ok
[2008/04/26 10:27] Beathan Vale: (almost did a Freudian slip and said "too busty"
[2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: stop peeking beathan
[2008/04/26 10:27] You: Each of Gwyn and Prin is one more out-of-order snipe away from me asking the RA to censure you :) if they refuse, I will simply leave the rom and wish you the best
[2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: im done
[2008/04/26 10:27] You: I'd advise being slow to comment
[2008/04/26 10:28] You: thank you Prin
[2008/04/26 10:28] You: Gwyn, you have the floor if you are NOT done
[2008/04/26 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd like to know what the "facts" are of which I'm "accused" of.
[2008/04/26 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since either these "facts" exist, and then someone should mention them to the SC,
[2008/04/26 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or they don't and then I'll have to file a suit for libel and defamation ;)
[2008/04/26 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi holds up her hand
[2008/04/26 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's all.
[2008/04/26 10:29] You: This is not a court, so my advice is, do not expect resolution here. You disagree. Fine. Take action as you see fit - elsewhere.
[2008/04/26 10:29] You: and Gwyn is done.
[2008/04/26 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
[2008/04/26 10:29] You: More from you that's in order, Prin?
[2008/04/26 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: the point is you WERE the SC.
[2008/04/26 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: and id like to end it, make this go to forums
[2008/04/26 10:30] You: Seems to me you two are disagreeing on several factual matters - which we will (ahem) NOT resolve here. May we close this topic now.
[2008/04/26 10:30] You: We are over time on the agenda item.
[2008/04/26 10:30] You: Would any RA members object to us taking 3 more minutes to process Beathan's idea about a motion or amendment?
[2008/04/26 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: sok
[2008/04/26 10:31] You: if no objetcion, BV - you were amending, but there's no motion. Did you want to move to adopt a piece of the PMRW bill now?
[2008/04/26 10:31] Beathan Vale: I move to amend 3 of the cumm mandate bill
[2008/04/26 10:32] Beathan Vale: we cannot disqualify candidates an hour befroe the voting closes -- that is crazy -- and disenfranchises many citizens
[2008/04/26 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: oh i agree
[2008/04/26 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: but we can keep this abuse happening again
[2008/04/26 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: from happening
[2008/04/26 10:32] Beathan Vale: we can have this going forward -- and we can agree to disagree about what happened -- but let's have the process play out
[2008/04/26 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/26 10:33] You: hmmm - so for clarity, you are moiving that we ADOPT an amended form of the Non-Cumulation of Mandates Act ... which is at ...
[2008/04/26 10:33] You: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 766#p10781
[2008/04/26 10:33] You: but with its para 3 (on effective date) changes so that it only takes effect after the current by-election results seat RA members. Yes?
[2008/04/26 10:34] Beathan Vale: yes -- there was some confusion about the rest of the text
[2008/04/26 10:35] You: (I looked at the thread and saw no other stated explicit amendments to that text, shrug - so I guess we are going with it as written, except for your effective date amendment)
[2008/04/26 10:35] You: ok that's a motion. Do we have a second?
[2008/04/26 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i would like to talk about the term limit part
[2008/04/26 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean not talk but listen
[2008/04/26 10:35] You: hm well - that's not the current motion
[2008/04/26 10:35] You: can we do Beathan's part first?
[2008/04/26 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/26 10:35] You: anyone second it?
[2008/04/26 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/04/26 10:35] You: OK
[2008/04/26 10:36] You: Discussion - on the overlapping-roles bill, basically
[2008/04/26 10:36] You: I have a Q :)
[2008/04/26 10:36] You: is it a constitutional amendment?
[2008/04/26 10:36] MT Lundquist: i would say so
[2008/04/26 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: it isnt mentioned in the constitution so why
[2008/04/26 10:37] Jamie Palisades gets his lawyer-carnivore thing on and smiles
[2008/04/26 10:37] You: I suspect it should not be viewed as constitutional
[2008/04/26 10:37] You: but that's up to our -- er -- SC :) ...
[2008/04/26 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/26 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn looks for Claude ;)
[2008/04/26 10:38] You: ... who at present has sort of an organic, flexible view about 'founding documents' and what contradicts the spirit of some faint idea from 2006 ... in my personal view :)
[2008/04/26 10:38] Beathan Vale: For clarity -- I think that the amended bill would read: Limitation of Terms Act (Second Draft) 1. No citizen shall serve longer than two consecutive terms in any of the following offices: Member of the RA, Chancellorship, Member of the Architectural Control Department (ACD) (if any); Member of the Chamber of Commerce (if any); or Marshall of the Peace. 2. Members of the RA, SC, Chancellorship, Members of the Architectural Control Department (ACD) (if any); Members of the Chamber of Commerce (if any); or Marshalls of the Peace may not stand for another office enumerated in Paragraph 1 while sitting in one such office or in the term immediately following their departure from such office. 3. This bill shall come into effect after the end end of the current RA session; all terms of government service shall coincide with the term of the RA " -- or somesuch
[2008/04/26 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: how do we define a term
[2008/04/26 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: if i serve a week and quit
[2008/04/26 10:38] Beathan Vale: Also -- we should take out ACD -- as that is no longer part of the private dev bill
[2008/04/26 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: is that a term
[2008/04/26 10:38] Jamie Palisades lives in a nation with a 'written' constitution as opposed to the tribal, it's-in-my-head UK version
[2008/04/26 10:39] Beathan Vale: term is the entire RA session -- not the mere part of the term any givern person chooses to sit
[2008/04/26 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: well i know the person who wrote it meant othewise
[2008/04/26 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: i spoke with him abou this
[2008/04/26 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we have to define it
[2008/04/26 10:40] You: sooo
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: a faction could ..have ppl serve half terms
[2008/04/26 10:40] Beathan Vale: serve any part of a term ...
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: and keep the same ppl in over and over
[2008/04/26 10:40] You: we have the bill text from BV (thank you)
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you beathan
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i think it has to be any part
[2008/04/26 10:40] You: it's been moved and seconded
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: but i dotn think the probalem is any one office
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: its moving to a new one
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: so you cant padd the RA and move to the SC and rule on things we voted on
[2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: take what i saw , in my opinon what gwyen and justice did
[2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: what if we pass a law this week
[2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: then i move to the SC to vote on its effietiveness
[2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: thatts the problem
[2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: not beathan being in RA five terms
[2008/04/26 10:41] You: personally I thik that since it does NOT affect anycurrently seated positions until after the current electiuon cycle is completed, it;s a good test case for our RA and the SC's viwes about how it wants to read our acts :)
[2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: its mving from one positoin to the tnext
[2008/04/26 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: lets say i make a bill vote on it, then go ot the sC the next week and rulle what i voted on and worte was good.. thats the problem and thats wrong
[2008/04/26 10:42] You: if we vote here and give if 4 votes, it will pass RA - and then SC will be forced (if it acts at all) to both decide whether it's constitutional ... and if so .... whether a 5 member RA can pass a constitutional amendment by 4 votes :)
[2008/04/26 10:42] You: I ttink I am agreeing completely with Prin
[2008/04/26 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/26 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: lets vote then
[2008/04/26 10:43] You: let me just read BV's text one more time for boobytraps - while I do, any other comments?
[2008/04/26 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: can you say booby
[2008/04/26 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: or is it a trap
[2008/04/26 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/04/26 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: dont eject me
[2008/04/26 10:43] You: ha ha :P to you Senator Marilyn Monroe
[2008/04/26 10:43] You: or is that a Garbo deal?
[2008/04/26 10:44] Beathan Vale: why is English slang for breasts so often the name of birds? booby and tit ... hmmm
[2008/04/26 10:44] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/04/26 10:44] You: no, no, short witticisms that do not attack people aren't out of order
[2008/04/26 10:44] You: hell, arguably without them CDS would grind to a halt
[2008/04/26 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: put your lips together and blow
[2008/04/26 10:44] You: sigh
[2008/04/26 10:44] MT Lundquist: theres also great tit
[2008/04/26 10:44] You: siiiiiiigh
[2008/04/26 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
[2008/04/26 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: what>
[2008/04/26 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/04/26 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: omg
[2008/04/26 10:44] MT Lundquist: a bird
[2008/04/26 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: are you calling me a bird
[2008/04/26 10:45] You: OK I read it. I have a question. As restated by Beathan this DOES include term limits, yes?
[2008/04/26 10:45] Beathan Vale: yes -- term limits were the core of the proposal
[2008/04/26 10:45] Beathan Vale: I have some heartburn about that -- but I'm willing to try it
[2008/04/26 10:45] Jamie Palisades rifles back to see who spoke in favor of, and against, term limits
[2008/04/26 10:45] You: may I comment?
[continues in next post]