Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

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Timo Gufler
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Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

Post by Timo Gufler »

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I hope, that nobody feels, that I'm pushing too many proposals. At moment we don't have any decision about the next sim, and I want to show my proposal for the NFS West in addition to the NFS East one too.

The sim would be a rural one. It would be a sparsely populated blend of Alpine and Bavarian styles. There are two parcel zones, the smaller alpine ones on the mountains and the bigger Bavarian ones on the valley. Besides the alpine rivers, hills and lakes, the stone bridge (die Steinbrücke) is the major attraction to the sim. There is also a tower (der Turm) located in the southwest part of the sim. It would be wished, that the road network of the NFS sim can be expanded to the new one by turning a narrow piece of private land to a public one. If the land owners don't want this, the road have to be rerouted. Water level of the sim should be 97 m, making the lower lake as a real water area.

This is a draft and not meant to be the final truth, but just an opening for the discussion about the sim planning. I believe, that there are many among us, who have brilliant ideas and visions about the new sim.

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Re: Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

Post by Sudane Erato »

Timo, your drawings and ideas are really wonderful, and your ability to portray them with shapes and elevation lines makes them excitingly visible. Thank you!

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Re: Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

Post by Cadence Theas »

Hi Timo, what a nice design, just as nice as the NSF East. The only suggestion I would make to it is to add a few more properties, otherwise it could become a sim for just the rich and famous :lol:

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Re: Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

Post by Timo Gufler »

Cadence Theas wrote:

Hi Timo, what a nice design, just as nice as the NSF East. The only suggestion I would make to it is to add a few more properties, otherwise it could become a sim for just the rich and famous :lol:

Hi Cadence, Aren't we all rich, beautiful and famous? ;) Actually the price of living there depends on the sim type. I made some preliminary calculations based on Monastery, which is a homestead with about 25% of the prims dedicated to the public land and the rest for the private parcels + the special monastery building itself. The following analysis shows one possible scenario:

Code: Select all

Public infrastructure   950 prims
Mountain parcels        100 prims x4
Valley parcels          480 prims x5
------------------------------------
Total                  3750 prims

The normal parcels in the Monastery sim support 234 prims. Tiers are relative to the prim limits, making the cost structure quite similar. Naturally the ratio between the mountain and valley parcel could be different. In case of a full sim, there should be around twice as many parcels, that would make it look less rural and might require a different "geographic story". But what do we want? :)

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Re: Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

Post by Rosie Gray »

I like your designs for both NFS West and NFS East Timo!

The only problem about your suggestion for the water level in NFS West is that it creates issues visually with the adjacent sims if you don't have the water levels all set at the same level. It could be a 'trade-off', if that's what we want, but it is something to think about.

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Re: Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

Post by Sudane Erato »

Rosie Gray wrote:

The only problem about your suggestion for the water level in NFS West is that it creates issues visually with the adjacent sims if you don't have the water levels all set at the same level. It could be a 'trade-off', if that's what we want, but it is something to think about.

I agree with Rosie's point. When standing on a sim with water level set at 100, it looks like water off sim is all at 100, while stepping over to a sim set at the default level of 20, the water will jump down. It's probably better to leave all the SL water at 20 and create a really nice artificial water surface. I've done a lot of experiments with that and would be happy to do more.

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Timo Gufler
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Re: Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

Post by Timo Gufler »

Thank you for the comments, Rosie and Sudane. I got the idea of different water levels from two different locations in the Linden mainland, where dam separates two sims from each others. I'm not sure, if I understood the described visual issue correctly. Can you see it in the following locations? I crossed the region edge several times and didn't notice anything unusual.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Canard/179/7/60 (dam in Nascera with huge difference)

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ganymede/248/155/57 (dam in Sansara with lesser difference)

Naturally, artificial water would be a solution, even if not as elegant as true water.

Update: Here is a nice waterfall featuring the same method.

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Re: Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

Post by Rosie Gray »

Hi Timo... I went to your first LM in Canard and had a look. It does show the same problem that changing the water level between adjoining sims creates. If you stand on Canard, where you gave the LM to, and pan your camera out to the adjoining sim where the water is lower, then bring your camera down lower towards the water there, you will see that it appears that you are 'under water', in regards to the sim you are standing on. It's hard to explain, and as I mentioned perhaps it's an acceptable flaw. We did have the water set higher in NFS for a while so that the edges of the sim didn't look so high from the water table. But, in the end reverted it back because of this issue.

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Timo Gufler
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Re: Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

Post by Timo Gufler »

I visited in Canard sim again and was able to reproduce the problem, you described. You don't notice it unless you first zoom out and then lower the camera below the water level of the sim, where you are standing. How significant would this problem be in a valley-like sim as opposite to hill-like like sim NFS? We have two options:

  1. Keep water level at 20 m and make the lowest lake with an artificial prim water (or forget the idea of lakes completely). No problems for photographers. Water looks less good and is not suitable for water activities, that require floating physics.

  2. Raise water level to 97 m (or whatever altitude the lowest lake will be). Photographers can have problems, if they zoom out and shoot pictures from special angles, that make the camera go under sim's water levels. Water looks beautiful and is suitable for water activities.

A simple workaround for the photographers is to move to the neighbor sim and use camera controls to focus on the original standing location.

Which option would we be happier with (a or b)?

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WHY NOT HAVE BOTH NSF EAST AND WEST?

Post by Cadence Theas »

In a conversation with Tor about which sim we would like to see first, it occurred to us that it might be possible to have both under Timo's scheme, NSF East as a full sim, and NSF West as a homestead. If NSF West proves itself to be sustainable in the long term, then it could be upgraded to a full sim. Both of Timo's designs for NSF West and East are so attractive that it would be nearly impossible to say which one should be first!!

I felt, that to avoid all and any future problems with NSF West and the possibility of a sim upgrade, the covenant to NSF West could state: that in the event of a sim upgrade the CDS government reserves the right to temporarily appropriate properties in NSF West, and that the current owners would have first option on the upgraded sim. Obviously, the covenant of the upgraded NSF West sim would no longer have this clause. But if people buy a property knowing that at some point in the middle or distant future their land might be temporarily appropriated to upgrade the whole sim to theirs and everyone else's benefit, then it would avoid the drama that the LA sim reform did. This clause would only appear in the NSF West homestead covenant, NOT in the other CDS sim covenants, nor in the upgraded NSF West covenant.

I underlined that parts that might be wrongly interpreted, so that this posting does not create any drama or alarmist thinking.

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Timo Gufler
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Re: WHY NOT HAVE BOTH NSF EAST AND WEST?

Post by Timo Gufler »

Cadence Theas wrote:

In a conversation with Tor about which sim we would like to see first, it occurred to us that it might be possible to have both under Timo's scheme, NSF East as a full sim, and NSF West as a homestead. If NSF West proves itself to be sustainable in the long term, then it could be upgraded to a full sim. Both of Timo's designs for NSF West and East are so attractive that it would be nearly impossible to say which one should be first!!

Ohhh, I didn't imagine, that you would consider implementing both of my proposals instead of only one of them! Thank you. :) Still, the real challenge for us will be building them to look attractive.

The option to upgrade from homestead to fullsim has its advantages and disadvantages. We could test the concept with a lower total cost and then upgrade to a new sim type, that would bring more prims for money and add new parcels. After the upgrade price of prim would be lower too. I'm just concerned, if that would change the character of the sim too much, possibly alienating some old residents and many new ones too, that like a landscape of low population density. The upgrade from homestead to full sim would suddenly multiply the available prims for the private parcels by about five (15000-950)/(3750-950). As full sim prims are cheaper than homestead ones, we could add 55% more prims to the old parcels without touching their tiers. Still, that would leave around 10,000 unused prims worth of over US$300 to be used by new private parcels. 10-15 new parcels should be enough to cover them with reasonable tier levels. The major question is, would the sim look suffer as result of multiplying its parcel count?

There is another point of view too. If the NFS West as homestead proved to be successful, why not add another one next to it, instead of trying fix something, that's not broken?

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Timo Gufler
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Re: Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

Post by Timo Gufler »

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Here is a quick alternative plan, how the map could look with 11 new parcels. The lime-colored houses are the new ones.

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Delia Lake
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Re: Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

Post by Delia Lake »

Nice design, Timo. Thank you for starting off this discussion with a well done map. I do have a problem with the bottom road position on your map connecting NFS and NFS West and request that it be moved to a different location.

It would be wished, that the road network of the NFS sim can be expanded to the new one by turning a narrow piece of private land to a public one. If the land owners don't want this, the road have to be rerouted.

That particular road extension looks like it goes right through the south wall of my house taking it out, or possibly slightly south of the house wall cutting off my house from my attached pasture. That wouldn't work well for me. Let's look at other sites for that road connection sometime when you are inworld.

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Re: Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

Post by Timo Gufler »

Delia Lake wrote:

That particular road extension looks like it goes right through the south wall of my house taking it out, or possibly slightly south of the house wall cutting off my house from my attached pasture. That wouldn't work well for me. Let's look at other sites for that road connection sometime when you are inworld.

Ohh, thanks for pointing this out, Delia. My intention was to draw the road along the border between your and Pen's parcels, but evidently should have checked out the map more carefully. If either of you are ready to turn a small patch of your land into public land and the government accepts the change in parcel map too, the road could go there. If you don't like the idea, it's better find an alternative route. After all, the picture above is just a proposal. I'm sorry for the inaccuracy.

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Re: Proposal for NFS-west new sim design

Post by Delia Lake »

A road/path on the boundary of Pen's and my properties going through the woods there would be fine with me if I didn't loose prims by doing that. It would mean moving my pasture pond a little to the north but that would be ok.

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