Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th anniversary!

discussions related to planning the 10th Anniversary of CDS

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by Callipygian »

cleopatraxigalia wrote:

I think that we don't even have to do the bonds to do this ! We will be buying a new sim anyway. So it's only the balance of the three months of tier. That is way under 1000 us dollars and the last I heard we have accumulated and sitting in the bank in excess of $ 15,000 us dollars ?? Not sure if that is exactly the balance atm , perhaps Sudane can say. Is the money Sudanes personal money if it is then . Ooops. I'm way off base. But if it's the cds money. .. I cannot think of anything better to spend less than 1/10 of it on.. I am sure it will be repaid many times over in the long run. No bonds. Just do it !

Cleo

If this is a joke, you might consider adding some smiley faces so that new citizens reading it don't take it literally and think that Sudane mixes her personal finances with those of CDS.

If this is not a joke, it's rather embarrassing that as a member of the RA you seem repeatedly unable to locate the CDS financial statements (the last time I recall you asking where they were was at a RA meeting, and the URL to them was provided again) or realize that those reports are about CDS funds.

For the benefit of anyone looking for CDS financial reports, they are on the portal and can be found here:

http://portal.slcds.info/index.php/bran ... treasurer/

Calli

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by cleopatraxigalia »

Cally,

Thank you for always pointing out more detailed information.
Yes .. over 3 million lindens in our account is well over 12,000 us dollars, almost 15k total actually. Add in working capital and value of sims.. wow the valuation is even more. But, Since the linden exchange rate varies and the number fluctuates somewhat I thought I'd estimate for us.

Thank you also for clarifying that Sudane doesn't mix her own money in here. Actually I was shocked at Gwyns response about how the treasurer would be so upset about us spending money on this .. to me Gwyn's statement insinuated that the treasurer would have such a fit, seemed as if it were her own money or that what she thinks we should spend is the most important factor... . So then I thought maybe I got something wrong, so I asked. Mostly to clarify Gwyns statement.

For the record I have none not one shred of evidence of any kind that Sudane has ever done anything but volunteer time and devote her efforts toward the running of CDS. To say I think otherwise is in error.

I still hold by my statement, which was this...CDS has plenty of money to spend on a 10th year celebration without asking citizens to cough it up via bonds.

Gwyn's idea has another flaw in my opinion ..1. the bond idea, not necessary.. but 2. how sad that we have a 10 year celebration and spend hoards of money promoting CDS and have no where to put new citizens.. if we want Gwyns idea .. lets do it, but lets also buy a sim that we can bring new citizens in to as well.

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by Gwyneth Llewelyn »

Haha Cleo, before Sudane starts yelling at me, let me just clarify this a bit :)

I'm sorry if I led you to believe that Sudane would have a fit because she doesn't want the CDS to spend any money! — which might imply that somehow our beloved Treasurer is piling up money for money's sake or something like that.

No, if we have survived for a decade, even though there have been very rough months, was mostly due to "fiscal responsibility" — and this means being very, very careful with what we do with our reserve fund. With the current reserves, we are able to go for at least a year, perhaps more, even if suddenly everybody left the CDS and never came back again. This is what also allows us to go "slowly ahead", and, if there is an absolute need, keep whole regions closed and land sales locked, because we can afford it.

Now, I understand these are two separate issues. One is fiscal responsibility: making sure we have a HUGE reserve fund that we won't touch, in case things start slipping out of control. That's perfectly acceptable. We used to maintain 3 months in reserve; now we have way more than that, and, for one, I'm a bit surprised at how rich the CDS actually is.

The other thing is using the pretext that we cannot predict the future by simply piling up money and more money but never investing it back into the CDS. That's more in the realm of politics: how much should the CDS expend reasonably in order to grow in a sustainable way, but also be allowed to make improvements, advertising, great events, and so forth? Within the limits — of keeping at least a 3-month-reserve — I believe that there is room for government to announce reasonable ways of investing the CDS money. And "reasonable" here mostly means well-fundamented ideas with the sanction of the Treasurer.

What I meant with "Sudane is going to have a fit if we start spending money like there is no tomorrow!" was mostly because Sudane's extremely cautious about suddenly putting some money in things that will have absolutely no return in investment, using the argument: "hey, we're rich anyway, so we can also be spoiled". It's her job to let Government be cautious and think twice about excessive spending. If Government overrules caution and starts going on a spending spree, Sudane most certainly will have a fit — and that's actually why we hire her to be a Treasurer! To "have fits" when Government is spending too much!

When I wrote this crazy proposal, I humbly admit I hadn't looked at our finances. Fully trusting not only the Treasurer, but also previous governments, I knew that we have the legal reserve fund of at least three months — I certainly had not suspected that we had reserves lasting us a whole year, even if we didn't get a single L$ from tier. And working under those assumptions, I estimated that buying and paying tier for 3 months (1 building + 2 exhibiting) for the 10th Anniversary Commemoration Region ('Democracy Fair') would deplete our reserve funds considerably, since during those three months, we would not get any direct income from holding the anniversary commemorations. We would have to pay about L$450,000 or more for those 3 months, plus the cost of hiring extra event hosters, some advertising, etc. The reserve funds ought to be around L$800,000 or something like that, so, spending over half of that would be "risky", specially because it wouldn't really be an "investment". At best, it would be "advertisement", but it would take us a long time to get ROI on those L$450-500k.

Thus, being concerned about fiscal responsibility, I reasoned that it would be best to get a "subscription"-based model to sponsor the "temporary" region. That way, we would not require expending any money out of our reserve fund. And that would also mean that, in the worst-case scenario (we really had to shut the region down, and not a single new citizen would have joined the CDS), we would not be worse off than when we started. I imagine that we could "crowdfund" L$10k from each citizen on average (not everybody would be able to pay that much, I know), we'd have enough to support 'Democracy Fair' for the required three months.

After looking at our finances, though... it's clear that we have way more money than I ever imagined... and in that case, I would definitely be more than fine to drop the "crowdfunding requirement" and just get it all paid out of our CDS cash account. I mean, unless I'm reading that information wrongly, we would just be expending 25%-30% of our cash reserves — leaving us at least 6 months (way over the limits set on law!) of a reserve fund that would even pay, during that time, for the new sim, while we think what to do with it after 'Democracy Fair' is over.

I mean, I think that's more than reasonable! But I'm very fine with having Sudane explaining to me why we shouldn't touch the reserve fund at all, and abide by her decision; in that case, Plan B — crowdfunding! — would be the appropriate way to get this rolling.

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by Gwyneth Llewelyn »

Oh, and Cleo, you're right: if we're able to attract more potential citizens with 'Democracy Fair', it would be nice to set them up immediately on an otherwise empty region (meaning: one with plots for sale!). That would mean adding two new regions. Woot!

My only concern is that we are unable, in only five months, to plan for not only one, but two regions. Granted, 'Democracy Fair', not needing to be "in-theme" and not even requiring to be 'part' of the landscape, might be much easier to plan (but not to build!). The second additional region is a completely different issue!

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by JerryDon Lane »

Here is an idea that came out of a discussion I had with the Catz the other evening. I think it's a good one.

I have a lot of neighbors that love to sail and we enjoy this as well. Sailing is also very popular across SL in general.......I think these revisions would better CDS and make it even more attractive to potential new residents.

Let's upgrade the facilities that we already have in place for this. We could start by widening some of our waterways just a bit in some areas to make them more accessible to boaters.

We could also very easily expand the LA beach-line running South along the West coast of LA into Monastery, make it a narrow, navigable waterway, then all the way down the West side on Monastery into the new Sim. This would inconvenience only one resident, Bromo's "The Little Chapel" in Monastery and perhaps he wouldn't even mind having the Chapel be waterway on one side and mountainous toward the rear.

The new Sim would be named NFS Coastline (or something similar).....same theme as NFS, but taking it to islands.

we picture the new Sim as very similar to the Florida Keys in the U.S.--A string of islands beginning with a large one and tapering into smaller ones. With our "Key West" being a small island with docks reserved strictly as a party/island--park.

Also, after sailing the Norway Sims we were very impressed with the use they have made of automatic draw bridges....as your boat approaches a bridge.....it opens, bells go off and/or you get a red stop light telling you to wait and then it will shortly open, then you get a green light once it is open. why not replace all our bridges that go across a navigable waterway with these draw bridges?

Finally, I could see a small waterway going from the new Sim into NFS, perhaps along the West road and culminating in a small lake with docks.

That gives us the best of all worlds here in CDS. The best in themed homes, countryside, charming villages, mountainous regions, beachfront and waterways for our boaters.

It's an idea.....think it would work???

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by Gwyneth Llewelyn »

I like the idea very much :) You're right, sailing communities are all the rage in SL (they have been for a long time). Adding a few new fishing spots would also feel right!

What we would need to do is to repeal the act that establishes the next sim as being "Neufreistadt West". Or — if we're bold enough — we could go for your idea for the Anniversary Region. I would find it much more interesting if, instead of a huge plaza (the more traditional way of having such things in SL!), we'd have something like the Florida Keys — islands automatically become exhibit areas, and bridges cross from one area to the next. I tend to like those kind of environments in SL very much! (although I believe that the last one I visited was done by Moon Adamant some 6 or 7 years ago hehe).

Then, after the Anniversary celebrations are over, the exhibits could be removed, but the islands (and the bridges!) would stay in place and be parcelled.

In the mean time (sneaky, sneaky ole me...) we could also work on Neufreistadt West, to do what Cleo suggested: have parcels ready for eventual visitors who are enthralled by the Anniversary commemorations and immediately wish to buy a plot here :)

(Aye, my crazy let's-add-one-sim-plan has been upgraded to let's-add-TWO-sims in a not-so-subtle way!)

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by Garnet Psaltery »

I'm in favour of making sailing easier and pleasurable. The draw bridges are a nice feature idea.

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by Bagheera »

I heard secondhand that Delia had mentioned it would be nice to have a drawbridge for the LA bridge. One of the things that was nice about the bridge Ceasar built is the prims he used - quite serendipitiously - jive very nicely into a drawbridge design.

I had been working to create a drawbridge out of Ceasar's bridge using the Zedg-netics APS system. The animations are done but, because of the complexity of the animation, it is taking a few tries to "dump" the script that will run it.

Since Pat has indicated some changes need to be done to the bridge, I have paused until further notice - but making drawbridges is definitely something that can be done (and fun to figure out).

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

Well, I've been waiting for someone else to bring out the straitjackets and lead Gwyn to a padded cell but... I see no takers so I'd better step up :)

I have two questions:

  • 1. How much is this going to cost? and
    2. Who is going to do the work?

Until we have satisfactory answers to those questions I think we need to cool down a little.

Here's what I like about the ideas so far:

We should be thinking about a new sim and I'm pretty confident that we could design, build and market one to open in time for our 10th birthday in September. I like the idea of showcasing our democracy, events, recruitment, citizen booths but... we already have five beautiful sims in which to host these activities. Why don't we make the best of what we already have?

The fundamental problem with Gwyn's proposal, as I see it, is that we would need to build a new sim not once but twice! :) And for the period that the exhibition is on we are paying for a sim but not getting any income. I have serious doubts that we could pull off not one but two sim builds in the time available. I am very sceptical that we have enough volunteers to make this happen and then staff it throughout and I think that financially it looks like a way to burn our reserves unnecessarily.

So, I would favour taking many of the positive ideas laid out here and making them happen throughout the CDS over the next five months. Celebrating our 10th anniversary by welcoming new citizens into our newest sim is a possible outcome but we will need a lot more than just the money needed to buy a new sim. Right now, I'd like to get the LA rebuild completed since this is a task that was first mooted two years ago.

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by Gwyneth Llewelyn »

I'm disappointed, too, I think people take me too seriously :) Or perhaps everybody is half as insane as myself...

I'm glad you're bringing me back to my senses :-)

The first question is the way simplest to answer: 1 new region for US$1000, 3 months of rent (one building, two for visitors) — that's another US$885, if my maths don't fail me, and if LL hasn't changed their pricing lately. Plus costs for changing the region's name after the event. Eventually, there would be building costs, and I imagine that we should also advertise — not necessarily on LL's login screen, which is insanely expensive, but on popular websites and forums like SL Universe.

The second question is tougher to answer. But — as you can see — 'Democracy Fair' doesn't require the same amount of planning as regular regions, because I propose it to be more conceptual. But you're right! It requires to be rebuilt a second time!

That's what I like on JD's proposal. Let it be a "multiple island" region, with bridges to the mainland. So there is the need for some nice landscaping. That's the base of the work, and which will persist once 'Democracy Fair' is over.

'Democracy Fair' has a few 'mandatory' buildings, as said — things like the central area, stage, meeting places (could be open air) for RA, SC, museum/exhibit areas, gardens. And there will be roads and signs to do as well. This really requires a team of builders to do, and some sort of plan to have a certain consistency. But — and this is the important part — we're not talking about strict covenants for a historical replica here, but modern (or post-modern) design, most of which wide open (no need for roofs!). Think minimalist and elegant.

The rest of the areas are, as I suggested, 'Citizen's Booths'. It means that everybody is allowed to build whatever they wish — no restrictions, except for prim limits, and the usual 'common sense' rules in the Covenant (e.g. no spinning cubes spewing particles all over the place). Citizens may join parcels together and do collaborative builds (using more prims that way). Someone like me who is worthless as building could simply join their plot to someone else to build. The whole point would be to have fun building inside a giant sandbox! The only 'requirement' would be that the building/booth is somehow evocative of our anniversary, but the details are left for citizens to decide by themselves.

Once the Democracy Fair is over... the Citizen's Booths are removed... and so are the temporary meeting places, the exhibit areas, the arena, the central area. The landscaping, the roads and the bridges might remain in place. Now would be the time to re-parcel the region according to a 'standard' plan and just start selling plots :)

So, yes, this means building things twice, but for Democracy Fair, it would be way simpler.

It's also true that once the Fair is over, we would be another month with it closed in order to rebuild and reparcel it. But — here is the thing — I suggested that the contest for doing the plan for that region would happen during Democracy Fair itself.

Now, as for your other arguments. "We already have five beautiful sims to host these activities". Indeed we do, and spreading things around the sims would also be a way for visitors to get a feeling of the different themes, and, as such, persuade them easier to join our community. But, alas, we will have to fight lag as well, and it won't be so easier, for potential visitors (who might not be in our groups!), to figure out where to go. A new 'central' region (central to the event, that is), has the huge advantage that people only need to type 'Democracy Fair' on the map and teleport there to attend events. They could be on a group, sure, or signing up to one of these nifty boxes that spam people when an event is due, and have a huge screen listing all the events that are going to happen during those two months. Way simpler to manage! And one thing doesn't exclude the other — Oktoberfest, for example, would probably be better served 'in-theme' and that means the Neufreistadt Marktplatz. In a sense, this would be the same model that Linden Lab does for their own WInter Holidays planning: a central area for the main events (sponsored by them) and lots of peripheral events, held by residents, who thus contribute for the overall celebrations.

Now, financials (besides the already-mentioned costs for the region): I agree that this is expensive! I'm still willing to say that we would not need to 'burn our expenses' — as we have plenty, and crowdfunding is still a solution! — but definitely invest into a promotional event that, for a change, gets thousands of visitors (over a period of two months, of course). This is 'advertising' at a scale we never done before. Will we recoup the costs? Probably not! I'm quite aware of that! But we won't celebrate a '10th anniversary' a second time; this is the only time we can do it, and I say, let's do it in a grand style!

(Also, that actually works as an argument: most people in SL who live in communities are tired of listening to their landowners complaining how hard it is to make money from rentals and such; many might have moved several times in the past few years, as communities collapse and die. We, by contrast, are so rich with our very successful management model that we can waste money just to have fun and not worry about the actual return of investment — well, at least, once every ten years!)

Personally, I will agree that the fundamental problem is, indeed, having enough volunteers to build a region twice (even if, as said, most of the landscaping and much of the supporting infrastructure might remain). Well, there is a way out of that. Why should they be volunteers? I mean, we can afford to pay them. And by paying I mean something substantial, not L$1000 :) Because I've already established my madness, I'd be more than fine to allocate, say, L$250k just for paying for people to build things, and an hourly fee (to be established) for being in-world at certain times (before announced events start, for instance, and during the duration of the event) to guide visitors. Why not? Why does everything need to be 'volunteer' work? I mean, we even have a long tradition of paying people to work and build awesome things in the CDS — many structures built by the original Guild were, in fact, paid for.

My whole point is that we can do it at least once — forget financials for a while, do something in a grand style, be bold, and show off what we can do :)

Obviously, whatever we might plan, I completely agree that finishing LA has a much higher priority, and, as such, I would never dream of endangering the completion of LA with another new and crazy project. So, I advise no 'serious' consideration of any further planning before LA is finished. In the mean time, not to waste any further time, and since our discussions are always long-winded and take eternities, I think it's still worth discussing what we have in mind to make a truly unique celebration of our 10th anniversary — and start doing it now, before it's too late, and all we're able to do is to hang a big '10' over the Marktplatz...

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by Delia Lake »

Re boating along the LA beach that JerryDon mentioned. The water off the beach is once again swimable and deep enough for canoeing or kayaking. A sailboat of any length might have difficulty turning around there, and damage a mast until the middle span on the bridge gets raised. One could easily kayak or canoe or row from the LA-Monastery sim line along the coast and down the Rhenus to the inlet at the CN-AM sim border.

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by Delia Lake »

Also for those who might not have seen it, there is and has been a public access swimming wedge in the water off the LA beach so you don't need your own swimming ao to swim in our waters.

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by cleopatraxigalia »

Pat

I totally agree with your idea of putting to use what we have now with the tenth year celebration. Let's get the new sim ready for new citizens and do all those nutty things Gwynnie and others said to. Raise a flag to CDS for our tenth anniversary celebration. Let's do it all over our SIX Sims and the Anzere info hub.... Then we only need one new sim now.

But pat you know I cannot totally agree with everything you say! I am going to get out my ruler now. Give me your hand . Please let's all stop living in the past when cds was low on volunteers !! We have gobs of citizens who want to get involved and have hoards of talent and energy. That's why they moved to CDS! To participate and be a part of the community and spread the word is why they are here. I know this was an issue for CDS in the past. But it's not now. I am happy to work with anyone who is having trouble getting volunteers. We will have all the help we need . )))))) it's a new day in CDS. THINK Positive !!!

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by Tor Karlsvalt »

Pat I agree with you completely. As I see it the whole of CDS is a testament to our Resident owned and Democratically governed community. A new sim added to our group of five would be a great monument to our success over these past 10 years.

To Gwyn, I would say that I don't think CDS should ever consider itself so rich that we can waste money. Naturally, our treasure should be used, when the time is right, to allow us to grow.

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Re: Completely insane idea: new region for the 10th annivers

Post by Timo Gufler »

It's great to see enthusiasm about sailing areas in the CDS. As some of you know, my distant dream is to have a port here and connect it to the mainland waters. There has been some discussion about the next sim and a very natural choice would be Neufreistadt West, which is like a missing piece in the puzzle. In my opinion, the CDS has a very unique geography with all the mountains. Forcing it to sea-level too aggressively would make us lose some of our charm. The lowest point of Neufreistadt sim is at around 100 m and the highest hill of Monastery is close to 200 m. Maybe we should have bit more patience and let the NFS West to be a similar sim to NFS itself. As our expansion continues (that should not take another 4 years!) we can make the Bavaria go to lower altitudes and eventually even switch the theme.

If we want to have sailing and even those houseboats, that someone mentioned before, why not blend to Netherlands theme from the Bavaria eventually? Netherlands as a country is criss-crossed with rivers, canals and dikes. There are also all those beautiful windmills and tulips in the countryside, and they are all about a sailing nation. And how about skating on the canals during winter?

But well, better concentrate on the Bavarian sims first.

Just my too cents again.

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