SC meeting Nov 8 8.00 AM SLT - transcript

Announcements by the Dean of the Scientific Council

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Callipygian
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SC meeting Nov 8 8.00 AM SLT - transcript

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[08:09] Delia Lake: Call to order of the meeting of the SC, November 8 at 8:09 am
[08:10] Delia Lake: approval of the agenda?
[08:10] Callipygian Christensen: aye
[08:10] Lilith Ivory: aye
[08:10] Delia Lake: the first item is confirming the candidates for the 34th term
[08:11] Delia Lake: our call for candidates drew a single candidate for chancellor and only 3 candidates for the 5 RA positions
[08:11] Delia Lake: therefore we will not be voting this time
[08:12] Delia Lake: the candidate for chancellor is Samara Barzane (Kyoko).
[08:12] Callipygian Christensen: thankyou Kyoko
[08:12] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): >hides<
[08:12] Lilith Ivory: yes, thank you
[08:12] Delia Lake: yes thank you!
[08:13] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): remember I'm older and crankier ;)
[08:13] Delia Lake: aren't we all
[08:13] Callipygian Christensen: arent we all
[08:13] Callipygian Christensen: LOL
[08:13] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[08:13] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane) giggles
[08:13] Delia Lake: I've never been one to suffer fools and have notiiced that I have less patience in tat regard than I used to even
[08:14] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane) is taking notes
[08:14] Delia Lake: According to the official census conducted on October 9, Kyoko is and was a citiizen of the CDS in good standing
[08:16] Delia Lake: Therefore I propose that we certify Samara Barzane has met the requirements to be Chancellor of the CDS for the 34th term of government (December 1, 2020 through May 31, 2021)
[08:16] Callipygian Christensen: One question?
[08:16] Delia Lake: yes?
[08:17] Callipygian Christensen: I believe we found, back a few years, that the chncellor takes office as soon as elected - so if we certify Kyoko now, I think that means she immediately becomes Chancellor?
[08:17] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): please NO!
[08:18] Lilith Ivory: I think Kyoko needs to be sworn in to become chancellor
[08:19] Delia Lake: hmmm there was that. I would suggest that we separate the certification from the actual acclamation that takes the place of voting. I'm trying to remember the exact wording. do you know or do we have to check
[08:19] Callipygian Christensen: well back when that ruling was made it was to settle a matter of contention - I believe we can probably accept a 'agreed day of transition' as long as it is on or before Dec1?
[08:19] Callipygian Christensen: Ill check..carry on while I grab it
[08:19] Delia Lake: just checked. we're ok
[08:19] Delia Lake: CDSL 21-04 The Chancellor Term Constitutional Amendment

Enacted 26 October 2014

Amend the Constitution, Article II, Section 5.2 to read: Chancellor terms begin on June 1 and December 1, concurrent with the term of the RA. In the event of a by-election or vacancy caused by a resignation, the Chancellor takes office immediately upon election.
[08:21] Callipygian Christensen: we must have amended that at some point lol
[08:21] MystiTool HUD 1.3.0-freebie: Entering chat range: Aliasi Stonebender (18m)
[08:21] Aliasi Stonebender entered chat range (18.05 m).
[08:21] Callipygian Christensen: ignore me from here on itn :)
[08:21] Delia Lake: that's the latest I see
[08:22] Aliasi Stonebender: (hey folks - sorry I'm late.)
[08:22] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): *to
[08:24] Callipygian Christensen: yes, we amended iit in 2016
[08:24] Delia Lake: lets give Aliasi a minnute to catch up
[08:24] Callipygian Christensen: hi aliasi
[08:24] Aliasi Stonebender: (yeah, had alarm set, smashed snooze out of sheer habit)
[08:24] Lilith Ivory: I so know this habit :)
[08:24] Delia Lake: do you have that amendment, Calli? I didn't see it
[08:25] Callipygian Christensen: its in the laws under chancellor term to amend the consitution
[08:26] Delia Lake: hmmm. that's what I copiied off the website
[08:26] Delia Lake: it says 2014
[08:27] Callipygian Christensen: one sec
[08:27] Callipygian Christensen: oops..you are right..26th of '14
[08:27] Callipygian Christensen: the Great Rift year lol
[08:27] Delia Lake: loll
[08:28] Delia Lake: ok. sometimes in the past we have had coflicting law postings. and we may not yet have caught all of them
[08:28] Delia Lake: ok. so I think we're good then.
[08:29] Callipygian Christensen: yes
[08:30] Delia Lake: I propose the SC certify Samara Barzane as qualified to take office as Chancellor for the 34th term of CDS governement (Dec 1, 2020 through May 31, 2021)
[08:31] Lilith Ivory: I second that
[08:31] Delia Lake: any other discussion?
[08:31] Delia Lake: all in favor?
[08:32] Aliasi Stonebender: Aye
[08:32] Lilith Ivory: aye
[08:32] Callipygian Christensen: aye
[08:32] Delia Lake: aye
[08:32] Delia Lake: thank you again Kyoko.
[08:32] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane) bows humbly
[08:32] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): you are welcome
[08:32] Delia Lake: Now to the RA. We have 3 candidates for 5 RA seats
[08:33] Delia Lake: Tanoujin Milestone, Almut Brunswick, and Rosie Gray
[08:34] Delia Lake: All three are citizens in good standing and were so according to the October 9 census
[08:35] Delia Lake: I propose that the SC certiify Tanoujin, Almut, and Rosie as qualified to hold the office of RA member in the 34th term of the CDS governnment
[08:36] Lilith Ivory: I second
[08:36] Delia Lake: discussion?
[08:36] Aliasi Stonebender: This also seems self-evident, so not much discussion on my part.
[08:37] Delia Lake: all in favor?
[08:37] Lilith Ivory: aye
[08:37] Callipygian Christensen: aye
[08:37] Delia Lake: aye
[08:38] Aliasi Stonebender: aye
[08:38] Delia Lake: thank you. I will post those on the forum
[08:38] Delia Lake: second item on the agenda is the need for a by-election to fill the RA seats that will be vacant on Dec 1
[08:39] Lilith Ivory raises her hand
[08:39] Delia Lake: yes, please, Lil
[08:40] Lilith Ivory: I found a precedence about by-election in this case was we had nearly the same situation in november 2012
[08:40] Delia Lake: ok
[08:40] Lilith Ivory: minutes and transcript about how we solved this issue can be found here:
[08:40] Lilith Ivory: https://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3943
[08:40] Lilith Ivory: I proposed we deal with the by-elections of the 34th term in the way we have done it 8 years ago
[08:41] Lilith Ivory: we just need to tweak the dates a little
[08:41] Lilith Ivory: done
[08:41] Callipygian Christensen: I believe we had a change to the byelection laws after that though
[08:42] Callipygian Christensen: the changes simplified things - for example, we can use the most recent census
[08:42] Lilith Ivory nods
[08:42] Delia Lake: that this has happened before and we now find ourselves iin this situation again, leads me to conclude that we should amend the laws to address this situation precisely
[08:42] Lilith Ivory: we can either use the census taken on oct 17 or create a new one like we have done 2012
[08:43] Delia Lake: I've posted the relevant docs that I found here. https://forums.slcds.info/viewforum.php ... 22ceff2a0b
[08:44] Delia Lake: the problem I see is that if we use an Oct 17 census for a mid-Dec electioon, we are liikely to disenfranchise people who became ciitizens in Nov
[08:44] Lilith Ivory: this is why I suggested we create a new census
[08:44] Callipygian Christensen: Delia - that is why the time period for challenges is there
[08:45] Delia Lake: since this is the second time this has happened,
[08:45] Lilith Ivory: we anounce today we will create a new census next sunday and work with this one
[08:45] Callipygian Christensen: anyone wishing to have themself added can challenge - we've had that happen in a previus byelectin iirc
[08:45] Lilith Ivory: (exactly like we did 2012
[08:46] Delia Lake: yes but isn't the challenges period for ensuring that people who were actually citizens on Oct 17 are on the list? what about people who became citizens on Nov 2?
[08:47] Callipygian Christensen: in this case, their challenge is valid..it doesnt specify why a challenge occurs, just a timeframe for them
[08:48] Aliasi Stonebender: To be fair, it's fairly trivial to see who is a citizen, in the sense of a currently up to date payment, with very little effort.
[08:48] Callipygian Christensen: in the same way someone may well challenge a name on the list who has left CDS
[08:48] Delia Lake: to me the date sequence that Calli laid out in 2012 makes sense. I'd like to have it put into the law by amendment, and also dates for May-June
[08:48] Lilith Ivory: I do believe acting like 8 years ago and creating a new census is the best way
[08:48] Callipygian Christensen: But amendment etcapplies to future events
[08:49] Delia Lake: yes. so people in the future would know what the procedure would be
[08:49] Callipygian Christensen: We currently have a law in place, albeit one that considered midterm needs - we are the SC, are we going to ignore existing law?
[08:49] Lilith Ivory: I am all in favour for having this law more clear in future
[08:50] Lilith Ivory: why ignore existing law?
[08:51] Callipygian Christensen: It varies in two places - what census to use, and voting time period
[08:51] Aliasi Stonebender: As said, given a census is not a terribly great effort for us at this time I see no reason why we could not announce one.
[08:52] Delia Lake: so right now the SC has the right and obligation to declare a byelection if all seats are not filled. CDSL 32-1, In a case where the number of candidates declared for the Representative Assembly is less than the number of seats, the Scientific Council may call for a by-election in an attempt to fill any available seat(s). Seats that remain open after one by-election shall remain vacant for the balance of the term.
[08:52] Delia Lake: that's the issue, Calli
[08:52] Lilith Ivory: the land scanner creates a citizen list now every night and it is no big deal to get a census any time we need one
[08:53] Delia Lake: 20-02 gives dates in the procedures
[08:53] Delia Lake: it's not that we can't get a census anytime
[08:53] Delia Lake: it's that 20-02 specifiies dates for what census to use
[08:54] Delia Lake: for a Dec term that earliest date is the end of Jan
[08:54] Delia Lake: that leaves seats oopen for 1/3 of the term
[08:54] Aliasi Stonebender: I'm not sure paralyzing the system because we didn't anticipate changes is necessarily the original intent behind the law, however.
[08:55] Delia Lake: II dont think it was the intent at all. I don't think they considered the situation
[08:55] Lilith Ivory nods
[08:55] Lilith Ivory: the law clearly means we are supposed to use the most current census
[08:55] Callipygian Christensen: /meshrugs. I believe ' the most recent Census will be used' is the relevant statement, the dates for taking the census were just to ensure it was done.
[08:55] Lilith Ivory: so either the one from mid october or a new one
[08:56] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[08:56] Delia Lake: so if we propose an amendment that pretty much follows what Calli laid out in 2012 we cover that now and into the future
[08:56] Aliasi Stonebender: Taking a census used to be a somewhat more involved endeavor. It isn't one now. There's not even a reason for *specific dates* at this point, and I suggest the RA look into amending this in the future. In the meantime, it's left to us to try and make it work.
[08:56] Callipygian Christensen: I think we are mising the point of WHY the 'use an existing census' - it was to shorten the time period of a byelection
[08:57] Callipygian Christensen: with a new census there is a delay for it to occur then a full 14 days to challenge - the intent was to just speed up the process
[08:58] Lilith Ivory: I agree but at the moment we have enough time to create a new census and call for candidates on dec 1
[08:58] Callipygian Christensen: right now that isnt as much a concern as mid-term - but if we are discussing amendments as well, that needs to be considered
[08:58] Delia Lake: and we should request a census right away imo
[08:58] Lilith Ivory: using the old one only makes sense if we want to call for candidates before the 34th term starts
[08:58] Delia Lake: yes, Calli
[08:59] Callipygian Christensen: We need to extend the voting period to the full 168 hours though
[08:59] Delia Lake: I thiink it is problematic to call for a by-election before the officers for that term have been seated
[09:00] Delia Lake: yes, we need the full 168 hours
[09:00] Lilith Ivory: I would prefer to have full RA before they vote for an LRA and the new LUC members
[09:03] Delia Lake: that would be ideal in some ways but would also require declaring actual vacancies when no one has yet been officially seated
[09:04] Callipygian Christensen: I am looking at dates and it appears we could start voting on the ay of transition, the 1st and still meet all requirements. That is a change form the usual Saturday start, but I dont believe there is any law that says we cannot do that in a byelection situation
[09:04] Lilith Ivory: I agree Calli
[09:04] Callipygian Christensen: that would allow a full complement by the 8th if voting is needed
[09:04] Lilith Ivory: we only need to have the polls open on a weekend
[09:05] Callipygian Christensen: if not (which is more likely) acclamation can occur on the 1st
[09:05] Lilith Ivory: sounds like a good plan
[09:05] Delia Lake: if we declared voting on Dec 1 we would need to use a census of Nov 3 or before
[09:06] Callipygian Christensen: announce a census for tomorrow, 14 days takes us to the 23 - campaingingto the 30th,polls open on the 1st?
[09:06] Delia Lake: that seems reasonable
[09:06] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[09:06] Callipygian Christensen: right,,I am out by a week..*sigh*..thus the 'why we wanted to speed things up'
[09:06] Delia Lake: lol
[09:07] Callipygian Christensen: wiat..why the 3rd? that comes from regular election laws
[09:07] Delia Lake: no. 28 days back from Dec 1
[09:08] Delia Lake: just happens to be the date oof the end of the original declaration of candidates but that's an interesting coinsidence
[09:08] Callipygian Christensen: no..you are right (as I think aloud)..so if we call a census now, the earliest we can have plling start is the 8th
[09:09] Callipygian Christensen: if it is contested, that means an actual full complement of RA on the 15th
[09:09] Lilith Ivory: it´s still fine as polling is not very likely
[09:09] Lilith Ivory: we would need THREE new candidates for polling
[09:09] Delia Lake: yes, that's what I calculate also
[09:10] Delia Lake: right, Lil
[09:10] Callipygian Christensen: lol..that actually IS what happened last time I think
[09:10] Callipygian Christensen: not enough to fill the seats, then an actual vote to decide on the leftovers
[09:10] Lilith Ivory: there was only one open seat and two candidates
[09:10] Delia Lake: we have to plan for voting even if we don't get 3 candidates
[09:10] Lilith Ivory: yea, we had this often for a while
[09:10] Callipygian Christensen nods
[09:11] Delia Lake: so I can call for a new census for tomorrow, and talk with Sudane at the LUC meeting this afternoon
[09:12] Delia Lake: then fill in appropriate dates moving forward. that's for this time. I really do think we need to propose a simple amendment to lay this out foor the future though
[09:12] Lilith Ivory: Sudane has followed our SC discussion and is ready to go whenever we tell her :)
[09:13] Aliasi Stonebender: works
[09:14] Delia Lake: as Aliasi said earlier conducting a census today is pretty simple
[09:14] Lilith Ivory: it´s never a bad idea to make our laws more clear
[09:14] Callipygian Christensen: Please split this into the census part and the rest for the voting?
[09:14] Delia Lake: yes
[09:14] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane): My apologies, but RL is calling
[09:14] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane) bows humbly
[09:15] Lilith Ivory: bye Kyoko
[09:15] Delia Lake: thanks for coming Kyoko
[09:16] Delia Lake: I propose that I as Dean post a call for a new census to be conducted tomorrow, Nov 9, in preparation for a by-election for RA members to fill vacant seats in the 34th term of government
[09:16] Kyoko Furse-Barzane (samara.barzane) left chat range.
[09:18] Aliasi Stonebender: if that's so, then I'll second that.
[09:19] Lilith Ivory: will you send out a group not informing citizens a census will be taken tomorrow?
[09:19] Delia Lake: yes, Lil. I think it's a good policy to let people know a census is coming
[09:20] Lilith Ivory smiles and nods
[09:20] Delia Lake: I'll send that right after making sure Sudane can doo that tomorroow
[09:20] Lilith Ivory: good
[09:21] Delia Lake: all in favor of requesting a census for Nov 9?
[09:21] Lilith Ivory: aye
[09:22] Callipygian Christensen: nay - I believe the census of Oct 16 is the one of record
[09:23] Delia Lake: Aliasii?
[09:23] Aliasi Stonebender: aye
[09:24] Delia Lake wishes her keyboard wouldn't keep typing double letterss
[09:24] Aliasi Stonebender: sorry, still not really 'awake'
[09:24] Delia Lake: aye. with Calli's reason for nay noted
[09:25] Lilith Ivory: we had several newcomers since Oct 16 and some have left so I think it´s a good idea to have a new census created
[09:27] Delia Lake: as to the by-election schedule, I'm thinking I should post suggested dates on our SC discussion so we can check them rather than vote oon them now
[09:27] Lilith Ivory: when do you plan to vote on them?
[09:27] Callipygian Christensen: agreed
[09:28] Delia Lake: we could then approve them via email
[09:28] Callipygian Christensen: as long as we express agreement in the discussion thread I believe we are fine
[09:28] Delia Lake: that would speed up the process
[09:28] Delia Lake: yes, what Calli says
[09:28] Lilith Ivory: I am fine either way
[09:28] Lilith Ivory: or both ways :)
[09:29] Delia Lake: we will need to meet before any voting that might take place though
[09:29] Aliasi Stonebender: of course.
[09:29] Delia Lake: would Sunday, Nov 29 work for our next SC meeting?
[09:30] Callipygian Christensen: should be fine
[09:30] Lilith Ivory: fine with me
[09:30] Delia Lake: 8 am slt?
[09:30] Callipygian Christensen: Should be fine
[09:31] Delia Lake: Aliasi?
[09:31] Aliasi Stonebender: should be okay
[09:31] Lilith Ivory: fine with me too
[09:31] Aliasi Stonebender: I'll let you know if it changes. work's soon coming into peak season.
[09:33] Delia Lake: ok. thank you everyone. if there is nothing further that is urgent, I move the continuation of this discussion to the SC discussion page oof the forum and move to adjourn this meeting
[09:33] Callipygian Christensen: second
[09:33] Delia Lake: in favor?
[09:33] Callipygian Christensen: aye
[09:33] Lilith Ivory: aye

People often say that, in a democracy, decisions are made by a majority of the people. Of course, that is not true. Decisions are made by a majority of those who make themselves heard and who vote -- a very different thing.

Walter H. Judd
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