Building by democracy?

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Victor1
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Building by democracy?

Post by Victor1 »

Was just told by Bags that the new bridge i spent 4 hours building last night was not liked by 4 people and i was to remove it.

Someone could have told me this was building by democracy, then i wouldnt have wasted my time. As for everything else on that shopping list of builds? FORGET IT. No way am I wasting my time building something if all it takes is a few people to come up to the chancellor and say "I dont like it".

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Cadence Theas »

Vic, I can understand your frustration. Maybe if 4 of us say that we don't like the current arrangement of the sim, we can ask that it be deleted too. Tomorrow is Valentine's day, and I am going to keep with Pip's request, but I can still say (today) that there is something desperately wrong with the whole way the LA reform has been managed. What is the point of inviting experienced builders to use their experience when they are then disregarded or discredited? What is the point of approving a design layout for people to be creative in their building, but then micro-dictating every single element after that so that creativity is completely stifled? Why are we asked to buy Tuscan prefabs when there are many experienced builders in CDS willing to donate their time to make a beautiful sim? Why is LA becoming the vision of just one person and not the whole membership of CDS?

I still insist that the LA reform should have gone through a referendum of the whole citizenship of CDS and not just the elected officials of the moment...the long term effects of a poorly designed sim mandated by a few are much greater than the skirmishes of ordinary citizens wanting a voice in how their sim should look and a majority input of the whole citizenry in the final design and layout.

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Victor1 »

Now in group chat Bags stated she didnt like the bridge either.

So what the real truth here, the fact it was pulled because the CHANCELLOR didn't like it? Or because 4 people complained?

Considering that a lot of people have voiced their discontent with the redesign of LA and the way it is currently looking I am now starting to guess that the 4 people doesnt matter, what matters is Bags herself. If a building doesnt fit her view of "Tuscan" she'll just blow the build off and waste the builder and everyone elses time?

What the f***?

So it seems that the grand idea of "democracy" is thrown out the window whenever it gets in the way. Pity thats not the case for getting rid of the trolls.

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Bagheera »

Vic - you started building a bridge yesterday of your own volition, choosing your own design. Even though it was very different from everything else rezzed in its surroundings, I decided to encourage you, believing I would see a bridge as extraordinary as your reputation and that would justify my changing the entire quay to accommodate the bridge I would see. That is what I wanted, what I hoped for.

I was unfamiliar with the original that you were modeling your bridge after but the photograph you showed me looked good. Unfortunately, the photograph didn't convey all the architectural elements of the bridge. When I saw the bridge you created in the position you created it for, my first impression was that it looked "too small" somehow. I also was trying to determine how to incorporate it in with the Quay, so I went to Google Street View to see how the original joined up with the land...and also saw immediately why my impression of what you created felt "small" as the original bridge at one time was the largest span in Italy and the proportions of the original are significantly different than what you built... and not in keeping at all with the Tuscan fishing village theme that had been chosen by the RA.

In spite of my own misgivings, I thought I'd see if the bridge would work out - that maybe my own prejudices were coloring my judgment - since the design was much more military and different than what I had envisioned. Other people then remarked that they had wanted a different type of bridge which made me revisit my own decision and I realized I needed to do what was best for the sim and decline your bridge.

I completely acknowledged to you that I understood you had put a lot of time into it. I offered to make good for it out of my own pocket because it was my mistake - I had asked you to proceed. You told me you didn't take money but you did it for the pleasure of it. I said, all I knew to offer was money because I couldn't give you your time back, but if there was another way to make it right, to please tell me what it was.

When it came up in group chat, I gave you permission to post our full IM conversation, including my side, but instead you have cherry picked what you wanted to present to try to make this sound like a political act...instead of entertaining the simple idea that your bridge just wasn't right for the location.

Yes, at this point, I am making decisions for the Locus Amoenus sim. This isn't a position I wanted to be in but it is my responsibility to see it through. As best as I can tell, the reason "the Guild" doesn't like what I am doing is solely because I rejected the Guild's plan to move citizens and I was upset that Rosie and Tor continued to pursue moving citizens, even two weeks beyond after the RA had voted to follow my plan to not move citizens.

I was just going to keep my mouth shut, thinking that was for the good of CDS, but I think the poison of these conversations have become even worse than my just telling the truth.. When I told Rosie that the only non-negotiable was moving citizens, her response was "than what's the point?.. I quit". Since it seems Rosie has continued to spew poison behind closed doors about me, it seems I am in the awkward position of having to defend myself from the "crime" of protecting the citizens of Locus Amoenus. Another thing I had is.. last December, when moving citizens was coming to a head.. there were 16 citizens in Locus Amoenus. Of those 16, 12 were in the path of the Guild's progress and scheduled to be eminent domained out of their parcels. The four that were NOT going to be moved were Tor, Rosie, Cadence and Anti.

All I am trying to do, Vic, is the right thing. Whether you knew it or not, or appreciated it or not, I was protecting you and Garnet as well as everyone else who resided in Locus Amoenus, because it was the right thing to do.

Do you think I enjoyed telling you your bridge was wrong for its location? No, I was sick to my stomach.. but I needed to do the right thing for CDS ...and ... NO, at this point, the re-do of Locus Amoenus it is NOT a democratic process or even the collaboration of creative minds I hoped for.. but it wasn't me that created that situation. I am trying to make the very best of a bad bargain.

My current fear is it doesn't matter how beautiful I strive to make the sim. No one is going to want to live here after they read the poison you and Garnet and everyone else is writing here and elsewhere.

For those who want to see what bridge we are talking about, here is the original history of it from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castelvecchio_Bridge

and here is the Google street view:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Castelve ... 77.15,,0,0

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Garnet Psaltery »

Putting my take on it. The Guild isn't upset simply because of the moving people aspect. The Guild does not like the way your ideas have wandered so far away from the previous plan, and does not have confidence in your ability as a sim designer or builder. I thought Vic's bridge looked lovely, and .. not fitting the surroundings? Excuse me, it's authentic. Ok maybe the size isn't exactly like real life, but It was nicely done, AUTHENTIC, and oh did I mention authentic? Somewhat better than what I've seen you placing around the sim. Bayou houseboat anyone? Actually so as not to be accused of 'poisoning' the forum, I'll just point everyone to a fuller expression of my views on build quality and authenticity. Images 15 on. Enjoy. http://www.flickr.com/photos/garnetpsal ... 617131274/

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Rosie Gray »

Bagheera wrote:

I was just going to keep my mouth shut, thinking that was for the good of CDS, but I think the poison of these conversations have become even worse than my just telling the truth.. When I told Rosie that the only non-negotiable was moving citizens, her response was "than what's the point?.. I quit". Since it seems Rosie has continued to spew poison behind closed doors about me, it seems I am in the awkward position of having to defend myself from the "crime" of protecting the citizens of Locus Amoenus. Another thing I had is.. last December, when moving citizens was coming to a head.. there were 16 citizens in Locus Amoenus. Of those 16, 12 were in the path of the Guild's progress and scheduled to be eminent domained out of their parcels. The four that were NOT going to be moved were Tor, Rosie, Cadence and Anti.

Bags I was having a personal and candid conversation with you when I said 'then what's the point?' which you have taken out of context. It was quite clear that was my personal opinion and nothing to do with the guild. I always endeavour to conduct guild business in a professional manner and have on no occasion 'spewed poison' about you. I express my opinion, as do others, but I always try to be constructive rather than vindictive.

I won't get into the whole debate again about whether or not some citizens could have been moved to enable the sim redesign, but suffice to say that there are others who agree with me that requesting some people to move was an entirely logical and reasonable position to take for the betterment of the project. All this about moving citizens has been completely inflated and unnecessarily politicized and polarized by you and one or two others who didn't take the time to actually look at what the request might have been. Note the word 'request'. By the way, I have never owned any land on Locus Amoenus (and I don't believe Cadence has either). You can see who at the time owned land on this map: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByGHT4 ... sp=sharing. The parcels that I wanted to change were numbers 1, 2, 3, 15, 16, 18, 24 and 25. Out of those, the building at the quay would have only moved a bit but retained water frontage. Please get your facts right if you are accusing me of something.

Bagheera wrote:

All I am trying to do, Vic, is the right thing. Whether you knew it or not, or appreciated it or not, I was protecting you and Garnet as well as everyone else who resided in Locus Amoenus, because it was the right thing to do.

Do you think I enjoyed telling you your bridge was wrong for its location? No, I was sick to my stomach.. but I needed to do the right thing for CDS ...and ... NO, at this point, the re-do of Locus Amoenus it is NOT a democratic process or even the collaboration of creative minds I hoped for.. but it wasn't me that created that situation. I am trying to make the very best of a bad bargain.

My current fear is it doesn't matter how beautiful I strive to make the sim. No one is going to want to live here after they read the poison you and Garnet and everyone else is writing here and elsewhere.

Actually Bags, yes it was you that created the situation you are in with the sim now. You wanted total control over it, and now you have it.

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by cleopatraxigalia »

Thank you for being candid with us Bagheera.

100% agree.

The New Artisians Guild did NOT present the RA with a plan that would leave citizens parcels intact.
The New Artisians Guild decided not to work with the chancellor on the plan the RA did approve.

I know very little of the happenings of the guild since it was reinvented as the New Artisians Guild since it is a very different kind of closed group of builders that has not shared transcripts or had ONE meeting open to its full membership not to mention open to the citizens of CDS since the 20th RA session began.

That being said, at the risk of doing too much looking back, I do believe this episode in our history could afford us looking back to see WHY this has not really happened in the past. This is only my opinion and I am sorry if anyone takes it as a personal insult. It is not meant to be personal at all but a glimpse into perhaps how the SYSTEM can change and give us a more productive way of proceeding. The past Guild, run under Moon Adamant, in CDS were able to be the "sole" provider generally of work that needed to be done with no one getting too upset because of the way it was run.Moon always kept herself out of politics and did not run for RA or chancellor while she led the Guild as far as I know. There were very frequent meetings. The meetings were open to anyone who wanted to attend, even non citizens. People who did attend who were non citizens often saw cooperation and us working together, everyone caring about the sims, when they did attend guild meetings. All citizens who attended were allowed to and encouraged to vote on any and every issue. All citizens were allowed and encouraged to come up with ideas and plans and participate in any way they could or wanted to. People volunteered to help as groups and teams and worked together ... even people who could do little more than slap a texture on a prim were allowed to help do that or plant trees, etc. Communication within the guild membership was open .. frequent, fully transparent, within the guild and with the rest of CDS. All meeting transcripts were posted publically. Though the guild was not a government entity it seemed to me to fully represent any member of CDS who was interested AND gave anyone who desired it, an avenue of participation in CDS.

I do not know the reasons why the New Artisians Guild we currently have is operated the way it is , but my understanding is that it now is ONLY a business/group that happens to reside within the borders of CDS. It is no longer open to all citizens in any way, nor is it transparent, nor does it desire to be. In my opinion it does not in ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM even attempt represent the entirety of the citizens of CDS who wish to participate in the process of building and designing our sims.

As we grow, and I hope we do, I hope we can figure out a way to get back to this sort of community spirit that allows us to have beautiful sims AND happy citizens. The guild used to do a lot to help CDS build community spirit and a sense of belonging for everyone.

Under the current circumstances, with the lack of this sort of entity in CDS today, I think Bagheera has done a beautiful job of making that happen.

If locus is done without removing citizens from their parcels then I think we will have accomplished a lot.

Human lives and hearts are the thing CDS has that are irreplaceable and to be cherished..

Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Bagheera » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:43 am

Vic - you started building a bridge yesterday of your own volition, choosing your own design. Even though it was very different from everything else rezzed in its surroundings, I decided to encourage you, believing I would see a bridge as extraordinary as your reputation and that would justify my changing the entire quay to accommodate the bridge I would see. That is what I wanted, what I hoped for.

I was unfamiliar with the original that you were modeling your bridge after but the photograph you showed me looked good. Unfortunately, the photograph didn't convey all the architectural elements of the bridge. When I saw the bridge you created in the position you created it for, my first impression was that it looked "too small" somehow. I also was trying to determine how to incorporate it in with the Quay, so I went to Google Street View to see how the original joined up with the land...and also saw immediately why my impression of what you created felt "small" as the original bridge at one time was the largest span in Italy and the proportions of the original are significantly different than what you built... and not in keeping at all with the Tuscan fishing village theme that had been chosen by the RA.

In spite of my own misgivings, I thought I'd see if the bridge would work out - that maybe my own prejudices were coloring my judgment - since the design was much more military and different than what I had envisioned. Other people then remarked that they had wanted a different type of bridge which made me revisit my own decision and I realized I needed to do what was best for the sim and decline your bridge.

I completely acknowledged to you that I understood you had put a lot of time into it. I offered to make good for it out of my own pocket because it was my mistake - I had asked you to proceed. You told me you didn't take money but you did it for the pleasure of it. I said, all I knew to offer was money because I couldn't give you your time back, but if there was another way to make it right, to please tell me what it was.

When it came up in group chat, I gave you permission to post our full IM conversation, including my side, but instead you have cherry picked what you wanted to present to try to make this sound like a political act...instead of entertaining the simple idea that your bridge just wasn't right for the location.

Yes, at this point, I am making decisions for the Locus Amoenus sim. This isn't a position I wanted to be in but it is my responsibility to see it through. As best as I can tell, the reason "the Guild" doesn't like what I am doing is solely because I rejected the Guild's plan to move citizens and I was upset that Rosie and Tor continued to pursue moving citizens, even two weeks beyond after the RA had voted to follow my plan to not move citizens.

I was just going to keep my mouth shut, thinking that was for the good of CDS, but I think the poison of these conversations have become even worse than my just telling the truth.. When I told Rosie that the only non-negotiable was moving citizens, her response was "than what's the point?.. I quit". Since it seems Rosie has continued to spew poison behind closed doors about me, it seems I am in the awkward position of having to defend myself from the "crime" of protecting the citizens of Locus Amoenus. Another thing I had is.. last December, when moving citizens was coming to a head.. there were 16 citizens in Locus Amoenus. Of those 16, 12 were in the path of the Guild's progress and scheduled to be eminent domained out of their parcels. The four that were NOT going to be moved were Tor, Rosie, Cadence and Anti.

All I am trying to do, Vic, is the right thing. Whether you knew it or not, or appreciated it or not, I was protecting you and Garnet as well as everyone else who resided in Locus Amoenus, because it was the right thing to do.

Do you think I enjoyed telling you your bridge was wrong for its location? No, I was sick to my stomach.. but I needed to do the right thing for CDS ...and ... NO, at this point, the re-do of Locus Amoenus it is NOT a democratic process or even the collaboration of creative minds I hoped for.. but it wasn't me that created that situation. I am trying to make the very best of a bad bargain.

My current fear is it doesn't matter how beautiful I strive to make the sim. No one is going to want to live here after they read the poison you and Garnet and everyone else is writing here and elsewhere.

For those who want to see what bridge we are talking about, here is the original history of it from Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castelvecchio_Bridge

and here is the Google street view:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Castelve ... 77.15,,0,0

.

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by cleopatraxigalia »

Bagheera said,

[quote]
I am in the awkward position of having to defend myself from the "crime" of protecting the citizens of Locus Amoenus. Another thing I had is.. last December, when moving citizens was coming to a head.. there were 16 citizens in Locus Amoenus. Of those 16, 12 were in the path of the Guild's progress and scheduled to be eminent domained out of their parcels. /quote]

Bagheera,

Thank you for going to bat for us all and committing the "crime" of protecting the citizens of CDS from the precendent of a project being more important than citizen ownership of property. Avoiding the eminent doman precedent is important for the future of CDS and its growth, what you have done gives us all a greater sense of security when we invest our time and energy in CDS.

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Cadence Theas »

Thank you for clarifying the property question, Rosie. I have NEVER owned property in LA. I built two houses for two people, Mikelo's, which fits into the rural Tuscan theme, and Covey and Imper's house on the beach, which is not as Tuscan, but which maybe can just pass. I have only owned property in Alpine Meadow, years ago, and more currently in NSF. I think Bags starts losing credibility in her accusations when she starts misrepresenting the truth. If lying to win points is protecting, then I clearly operate with a different ethical standard.

My concern is the whole philosophy of governance that is operating now. Bags inherited by default a fractured community. One would think that her first order of business would be to try to heal that community with events, conversations, encounters--things that a true leadership would consider essential activities. Once the community is healed then it is ready to face more contentious issues. That is not what happened. She entered with a hammer in her hand and tried to conform us to her vision of a community. That works if you are chancellor for life, but doesn't work in a position that you may have for six months or a year after which you have to return to that community as an ordinary citizen observing the healing, or the chaos that you have wrought. A true democracy is a consultative process, not a question of "well, they elected me, so now they have to do what I say".

If 4 people represents the will of the people and can cause the deletion of a structure, what happens when more than four begin to decry the damage that is being done to LA? I know that people are tired of it being an issue, and that it was dragged all over the political spectrum and severely misrepresented by its detractors, but is the alternative much better? At this point, it almost makes more sense to delete the sim or turn it into an ocean for local sailing, let healing time pass, and then reconsider what we want and do so in a democratic and adult manner.

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Bagheera »

Rosie - you are being disingenous - the parcels you say are "only" the parcels that you were planning on moving are the "only" parcels AFTER I made a huge fuss AFTER I was in office. The map up until that point was much more extensive.

Also, you want to be an expert but were confused why I wanted/needed a 4x4m grid to show parceling for the sim..? and you didn't know that the About Land menu gives bad information?

But really, at this point, it doesn't matter. You have all decided a fractured community is what you really want.. and now aren't you relieved that I decided to post something since you really needed to blame me all along because you couldn't face yourselves in the mirror.

Well, you win. I'm done.

Cadence, good luck, by the way, since no one else will tell you, it seems. Your builds have way too much land impact. Rosie is your mentor and, in my opinion, is doing you no favors by letting you build outside the limitations of the land you are building for.

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Cadence Theas »

Thank you for the advice Bags, I already knew that I use too many prims, you are not the first to tell me ... I have yet to learn mesh which is on my list of things to do when I have time. Curiously, one of my harshest critics about my prim use is Rosie. Good teacher, bad student.

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Rosie Gray »

Bagheera wrote:

Rosie - you are being disingenous - the parcels you say are "only" the parcels that you were planning on moving are the "only" parcels AFTER I made a huge fuss AFTER I was in office. The map up until that point was much more extensive.

That's not true Bags. You didn't listen.

Bagheera wrote:

Also, you want to be an expert but were confused why I wanted/needed a 4x4m grid to show parceling for the sim..? and you didn't know that the About Land menu gives bad information?

I didn't question why you wanted a grid and I was not confused by that... I had not come to that process in the plans I was working on yet. When you asked for it, I did it. As for the About Land menu... well it's hard to know everything. I've never claimed to.

Bagheera wrote:

But really, at this point, it doesn't matter. You have all decided a fractured community is what you really want.. and now aren't you relieved that I decided to post something since you really needed to blame me all along because you couldn't face yourselves in the mirror.

Well, you win. I'm done.

Cadence, good luck, by the way, since no one else will tell you, it seems. Your builds have way too much land impact. Rosie is your mentor and, in my opinion, is doing you no favors by letting you build outside the limitations of the land you are building for.

Bagheera, I'm really sorry you've decided to leave this way. I mean that sincerely. I honestly did try to help you, and have never wished for anything other than a community that works together. I hope you find what you want out of SL somewhere, and wish you the best.

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Rosie Gray »

cleopatraxigalia wrote:

I know very little of the happenings of the guild since it was reinvented as the New Artisians Guild since it is a very different kind of closed group of builders that has not shared transcripts or had ONE meeting open to its full membership not to mention open to the citizens of CDS since the 20th RA session began.

I do not know the reasons why the New Artisians Guild we currently have is operated the way it is , but my understanding is that it now is ONLY a business/group that happens to reside within the borders of CDS. It is no longer open to all citizens in any way, nor is it transparent, nor does it desire to be. In my opinion it does not in ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM even attempt represent the entirety of the citizens of CDS who wish to participate in the process of building and designing our sims.

Cleo, perhaps if you would take the time to read the Charter of the guild, you would understand how it is operating. Please read it here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Qkc ... sp=sharing

As an NGO, the guild is under no obligation to post transcripts of meetings, or make public anything else about itself. Having said that, if the guild artisans should vote to post transcripts or notes or Minutes, then we will do that. It is run democratically, and according to its charter.

Any CDS citizen who wants to join the guild can, but to acquire voting status in the guild, a citizen needs to become either an Apprentice, Artisan, or Artisan Master. If you read the Charter you will see how this works.

The CDS Artisan Guild (AG) exists to encourage and assist a high standard of excellence in the creative output of content of Second Life residents. It’s primary method will be the sponsorship of a structure of creator-members who have met, or seek to meet, various graduated standards for the various arts. These accomplished creator-members will be encouraged to assist members occupying lower grades to achieve higher levels of skill. To this end, both classes and individual tutelage will be encouraged. The AG shall act as a clearinghouse of excellent creator talent and shall seek to match outsider requests for the creation of content with creators best skilled to do it. The AG shall also be available for other projects appropriate to its Purpose.

cleopatraxigalia wrote:

As we grow, and I hope we do, I hope we can figure out a way to get back to this sort of community spirit that allows us to have beautiful sims AND happy citizens. The guild used to do a lot to help CDS build community spirit and a sense of belonging for everyone.

On this we can absolutely agree, and I hope we can get back to that community spirit as well!

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by cleopatraxigalia »

Yes rosie i see exactly how it works. Non voting members have not been invited to the ONE meeting held by the NAG this 20th ra term.

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Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Lam Erin »

Rosie Gray wrote:
Bagheera wrote:

I was just going to keep my mouth shut, thinking that was for the good of CDS, but I think the poison of these conversations have become even worse than my just telling the truth.. When I told Rosie that the only non-negotiable was moving citizens, her response was "than what's the point?.. I quit". Since it seems Rosie has continued to spew poison behind closed doors about me, it seems I am in the awkward position of having to defend myself from the "crime" of protecting the citizens of Locus Amoenus. Another thing I had is.. last December, when moving citizens was coming to a head.. there were 16 citizens in Locus Amoenus. Of those 16, 12 were in the path of the Guild's progress and scheduled to be eminent domained out of their parcels. The four that were NOT going to be moved were Tor, Rosie, Cadence and Anti.

Bags I was having a personal and candid conversation with you when I said 'then what's the point?' which you have taken out of context. It was quite clear that was my personal opinion and nothing to do with the guild. I always endeavour to conduct guild business in a professional manner and have on no occasion 'spewed poison' about you. I express my opinion, as do others, but I always try to be constructive rather than vindictive.

I won't get into the whole debate again about whether or not some citizens could have been moved to enable the sim redesign, but suffice to say that there are others who agree with me that requesting some people to move was an entirely logical and reasonable position to take for the betterment of the project. All this about moving citizens has been completely inflated and unnecessarily politicized and polarized by you and one or two others who didn't take the time to actually look at what the request might have been. Note the word 'request'. By the way, I have never owned any land on Locus Amoenus (and I don't believe Cadence has either). You can see who at the time owned land on this map: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByGHT4 ... sp=sharing. The parcels that I wanted to change were numbers 1, 2, 3, 15, 16, 18, 24 and 25. Out of those, the building at the quay would have only moved a bit but retained water frontage. Please get your facts right if you are accusing me of something.

Bagheera wrote:

All I am trying to do, Vic, is the right thing. Whether you knew it or not, or appreciated it or not, I was protecting you and Garnet as well as everyone else who resided in Locus Amoenus, because it was the right thing to do.

Do you think I enjoyed telling you your bridge was wrong for its location? No, I was sick to my stomach.. but I needed to do the right thing for CDS ...and ... NO, at this point, the re-do of Locus Amoenus it is NOT a democratic process or even the collaboration of creative minds I hoped for.. but it wasn't me that created that situation. I am trying to make the very best of a bad bargain.

My current fear is it doesn't matter how beautiful I strive to make the sim. No one is going to want to live here after they read the poison you and Garnet and everyone else is writing here and elsewhere.

Actually Bags, yes it was you that created the situation you are in with the sim now. You wanted total control over it, and now you have it.

Sorry Rosie for my intervention but your criticism has been unfair....If I wanted to blame someone (I dont want to do it but I will make an attempt as the post above is about allocating blame and guilt) I would say that you are equally responsible for the mess LA is in.

It was clear from the beggining that you and the Chancellor had two different plans for the development of LA...That's fair enough as people are entitled to have different opinions and ideas about a commnity development....And everybody in my opinion had the right to contribute to a community project...

That's what democracy requires..

So there were two competing plans. On the face of it RA suggested that you and the chancellor meet to find a compromised plan or find a mutually acceptable solution..
This never happened..The case ended up as expected in those situations: Baggheera's plan or yours..Black or white...
No compromises no genuine discussions nothing. The whole LA and CDS has been dragged for months (if not years) by the inablity of the cds "officials" to reach a settlement for the common good...
Personal "egos" prevailed to a level that it is impossible to even suggest minor changes to builds or the plan...

The inability of the cds "officials" to behave responsibly infected alsoo other citizens including builders...

Nobody wants to listen, nobody wants to accept suggestions...

I am sorry but this is not democracy, LA project is not a collaborative community project...It is a personal project of individuals who are dragging the rest of cds into their personal conflicts..
I am sorry i am using this language but I am completely disappointed from the inability of mature persons to find solutions...

P.S. I personally make many changes to my builds designs and everything else I make...If someone tells me they dont like what I do I listen to them and usually make changes..
That is part of listening to others especially collaborators...Unfortunately this is missing in cds..

"To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often". Winston Churchill
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