Board Guild Meeting 2nd Nov 2008 - Transcript

[Moon Adamant]

[9:14] You: ok, everyone, let's start
[9:14] Rose Springvale: hi everyone, rezzing
[9:14] You: please remember the meeting will be transcripted
[9:14] You: agenda in the yellow box
[9:15] You: the chairman of the monastery sim WG asked me to delay his point a little
[9:15] You: while he finishes what he has to tell us
[9:15] You: so with your permission i'll move to point 2
[9:15] You: 2. Locus Amoenus IP licensing and paying - information point
[9:16] You: This point is just to tell you that Rose published the whole process of licensing in the Guild Forum
[9:16] You: hi Ulysee and Justice
[9:16] You: we are just starting, please take a seat .)
[9:16] Ulysse Alexandre: hello all
[9:16] Arria Perreault: Hi Justice
[9:16] Justice Soothsayer: hi everyone
[9:16] You: remember the meeting is transcripted, agenda in the yellow box
[9:17] You: so i would like to ask all builders of public structures in Locus Amoenus to please follow the IP licensing process, as very clearly descri8bed by Rose in the Guild Forum
[9:17] You: thanks Rose
[9:17] Ulysse Alexandre gave you MWG Summary (v2)10/30/08.
[9:17] Jamie Palisades:
[9:17] Rose Springvale:
[9:17] Jamie Palisades: Sudane?
[9:17] Sudane Erato: yay Rose
[9:17] Symo Kurka: Ok
[9:18] Jamie Palisades: We can confirm that we've laready approved thefirst payments, yes?
[9:18] Sudane Erato: i will say i screwed up the depositing process a bit
[9:18] Rose Springvale: oh?
[9:18] You:
[9:18] Sudane Erato: ahh... yes, you've approved the first
[9:18] Jamie Palisades: yes one talented and forward thiking artisan alreday has completed your IP agreement posting, Rose
[9:18] Sudane Erato: i neglected the folder
[9:18] Rose Springvale: brava!
[9:19] Sudane Erato: so I have to redeposit with Aliasi
[9:19] Jamie Palisades chuckles and points at Su
[9:19] Rose Springvale: remember that the guild gets money when you finish.. is Aliasi using her regular avi?
[9:19] You: ok
[9:19] Sudane Erato: oh
[9:19] Sudane Erato: i sent it to her
[9:19] Sudane Erato: she didn't reply in any way
[9:19] Rose Springvale: just asking because the act seems to anticipate a different one
[9:19] Sudane Erato: yes
[9:19] You: i suggest that you resend with an IM
[9:19] Jamie Palisades: (( config of content archivist inventory = real issue, but probably one that requies treatment outside of this meeting))
[9:20] Sudane Erato: i think i sent an IM too
[9:20] Moon Adamant hugs Jon
[9:20] Sudane Erato: but I have to send anyway... it was supposed to be a folder with stuff
[9:20] Jon Seattle hugs Moon!
[9:20] Jon Seattle: rezzing
[9:20] Jamie Palisades afk a sec ... hugs self
[9:20] You: lol
[9:20] Rose Springvale: yes, it will be a mess if we just drop things on her
[9:21] Rose Springvale: that's wy a separate avi is a good idea
[9:21] Sudane Erato: yes, it is
[9:21] You: i suppose that would need clearance by the RA though
[9:21] You: since Aliasi was clearly appointed as content archivist
[9:22] Rose Springvale: let jamie follow u,p, it's actually in the act
[9:22] Rose Springvale: appointing hte cz
[9:22] Rose Springvale: CA
[9:22] Rose Springvale: shared passwords, all that stuff
[9:22] Rose Springvale: but not our problem
[9:22] You: ok
[9:22] You: exactly
[9:22] You: let's go back to point 1 then
[9:22] You: 1. Monastery sim - Assesment of current situation
[9:23] You: Ulysse if you please
[9:23] You: hello Vince
[9:23] Rose Springvale: hi Vince
[9:24] Ulysse Alexandre: The Monastery WG group meet last Thurstday
[9:24] You: take a seat - this meeting is transcripted and agenda is in the yellow box
[9:24] Vince Moomintoog: Hello eveyone, is this a private meeting?
[9:24] Vince Moomintoog: thank you
[9:24] Ulysse Alexandre: and I have resume that meeting in one notecard
[9:24] You: no, this is a public meeting of the New Guild of the CDS, you're welcome to participate if you're a citizen
[9:25] You: if not a citizen, you're welcome too, of course
[9:25] You: but you have no vote
[9:25] Ulysse Alexandre: if you want I can give to all of you a copy of the summary that I send to Moon right now
[9:26] You: maybe it would be good
[9:26] You: or i can copy paste it into chat
[9:26] You: and so it goes on teh record too
[9:26] Ulysse Alexandre: The WG discussed the consequences of the new price policy of LL concerning void (otherwise known as open space) sims, and has considered that these changes make the project financially unviable.
[9:26] You: better, maybe
[9:27] Ulysse Alexandre: The WG discussed the question of the performance of a void sim in relation to the exhibition activities of the Monastery.
[9:27] Ulysse Alexandre: The Monastery also temporarily uses some animations and scripts in exhibitions.
[9:27] Ulysse Alexandre: At the time of the opening of an exhibition, more than 20 avatars can be present in the area. Therefore, this is an important issue.
[9:28] Ulysse Alexandre: So, we have three options
[9:28] Ulysse Alexandre: 1. Abandon the project, because void sims seem not to be a solution for the monastery .
[9:28] Ulysse Alexandre: 2. Freeze the project. Some people think that LL policy with regard to the prices for void sims may change. The project could be frozen until the situation is more clear and stable, and could then be discussed again.
[9:29] Ulysse Alexandre: 3. Work toward creation of a new full sim (and see if this would be a good alternative for the Monastery and under what conditions). In this third option, the presence of the Monastery is subject to discussion.
[9:29] Ulysse Alexandre: The Virtus group must also consider the way it could be part of the project.
[9:29] Ulysse Alexandre: The WG does not know the consequences of this third option in term of processes, as the original proposal was a void sim and the RA accepted the project based on a void sim which was without initial financial implications for the CDS.
[9:30] Ulysse Alexandre: We let the Guild choose between all these options.
[9:30] Rose Springvale: (excuse me, have to go deal with griefer issue, brb)
[9:30] You: GL Rose
[9:30] Ulysse Alexandre: I have finisched my summary, thank you for your attention
[9:30] Jamie Palisades listens, and may have some comments after the report is done
[9:30] You: thank you for your report Ulysee
[9:31] You: i would like to hear comments
[9:31] Sudane Erato: Ulysee... it seems to me you have the tech issue and the financial issue
[9:31] Pip Torok: (must go now ... prior meeting ... see you all
[9:31] Sudane Erato: and its important to keep the 2 separate
[9:31] You: specially as i am aware the question of void sims and expansion has been discussed just now at the Gov hour
[9:31] You: so Jamie first please
[9:31] Jamie Palisades: hm
[9:31] Jamie Palisades: ok
[9:32] Jamie Palisades: let me make a few comments and see if they attract agreement or disagrement
[9:32] Jamie Palisades: 1. I agree strongly that we all will, indeed, need to wait a week or so to see if the linden price changes have further change
[9:32] Jamie Palisades: although
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: I do not think we should let that stop our plans generally
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: 2. I believe that our plans have for a long time .
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: .. even before GMP ..
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: .. contemplated use of scenic voids
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: either for scenery, or NGOs or other common CDS builds
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: .. so I expect we wil lcontinue to have proposals to use them
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: and I hope to see a few in the next few months
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: finally
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: 3. I;m a little personally perplexed at how to use the guild because
[9:35] Jamie Palisades: although the GMP is a great piece of work
[9:35] Jamie Palisades: which I do wish we would use more, and actively work to implement
[9:35] Jamie Palisades: I get told that the uild can have no opinion o policy .. an dthat every decision of what sims to open next with what shape or eocnomics, is policy
[9:35] Jamie Palisades: so
[9:36] Jamie Palisades: spekaing as a government person Do you as a group wish not to give us any advice? And the RA and I will just mddle through? Or should we expect some?
[9:36] You: my comments
[9:36] Jamie Palisades: done
[9:36] You: in first place, i agree with 2
[9:37] You: for years now that several citizens have proposed the buying of voids to hold ONLY scenery
[9:38] You: those citizens and their supporters were proposing, in a way, that the cost of the scenery would be divided between the CDS population,
[9:38] You: calculating that a beautiful environment would have more value that then the increase on individual tiers
[9:38] You: to that, i propose that a landscape or scenery can be 'humanized'
[9:39] You: with things like the monastery, half a dozen houses, etc
[9:39] You: we can propose a solution like that to the RA for study and discussion
[9:39] You: while fully aware that that is a political discussion
[9:40] Symo Kurka: (raises hand)
[9:40] You: please speak, symo
[9:40] Symo Kurka: Void policy is strategic for CDS territorial development, so i'd say the best choice for Monastery Project is (quote) "2. Freeze the project. Some people think that LL policy with regard to the prices for void sims may change."
[9:40] Symo Kurka: About voids in GMP, well, they are very important, they come in with new sim clusters' development, but they need a further investigation on economic balance. THis could be the best "advice" for RA.
[9:41] You: i agree
[9:41] Symo Kurka: Which means
[9:41] Sudane Erato: i basically agree too
[9:41] Sudane Erato: although the tech issues cannot be overlooked
[9:41] Symo Kurka: try to understand how many residential sims can "pay" for a void sim
[9:42] Symo Kurka: (finished)
[9:42] Justice Soothsayer: I'd also like to throw in the question of whether the LL policy change alters the assumptions of the GMP about using void sims.
[9:42] Arria Perreault: it could made water very expensive
[9:42] Sudane Erato: good question
[9:42] You: well, where the GMP shows water
[9:43] You: it doesn't show 65536 m2 of water
[9:43] You: it shows water with installations that could help reduce the fixed cost of teh sim
[9:43] Symo Kurka: yes we always said "with small islands"
[9:43] You: think small islets with lighthouses, etc
[9:43] Symo Kurka: or underwater cities ..
[9:43] Arria Perreault: great idea
[9:43] You: yes
[9:43] Timo Gufler: inhabited lighthouse?
[9:43] Sudane Erato: well... with something that might be attractive for a citizen to pay for
[9:44] You: the GMP has never proposed that that space would be not occupied
[9:44] Sudane Erato: exactly
[9:44] Symo Kurka: we meant to create a "break" betweenn different theme clusters
[9:44] You: the description of 'water' is more a suggestion that unlike NFS, AM, CN, which are mainly LAND
[9:44] Arria Perreault: I was not thinking to our case only: there are a lot of sea in SL
[9:44] You: these would be mainly WATER
[9:44] Jamie Palisades raises hand, no rush
[9:44] You: but to sum up
[9:45] You: i think that at this point
[9:45] You: i agree with Symo, Monastery project should be frozen for a few weeks
[9:45] Sudane Erato: will be more than a few weeks
[9:45] You: not only because of possible LL policy changes
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: thus my hand
[9:46] You: but also because we, the Guild, and we, the citizens, must ask the RA this: is the CDS able/interested to support the extra cost of voids?
[9:46] You: and that is definetely a political question
[9:46] You: Jamie, please
[9:46] Sudane Erato: well, Moon.... there may *not* be an extra cost
[9:46] Sudane Erato: it all depends
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: / me smile s- I'll go after Sudane. How so, Su?
[9:47] You: Sudane, i do agree that we should try and make some financial projection
[9:47] Sudane Erato: depends on how they are financed
[9:47] Sudane Erato: there is no "built-in" need to assume that voids will lose money
[9:48] Arria Perreault: I think that what Moon says is correct: maybe the price of beauty should be shared between all
[9:48] Arria Perreault: this is a political question
[9:48] Sudane Erato: all public land is hared between all
[9:48] You: that is certainly an issue that has been discussed in our forums for two years now or almost
[9:48] Sudane Erato: *shared
[9:48] Arria Perreault: I know
[9:49] You: what i propose is that the discussion becomes formal in the RA
[9:50] Jamie Palisades: sigh
[9:50] You: Jamie, what would you propose instead?
[9:50] Jamie Palisades: I am responsible to bring budgets and projections to the RA. So that they do not debate in an undirected vacuum leading to inaction In great part this is powered by Sudane, god bless her, but there are policy choices too Moon, I do not expect the RA to sponaneously generate complex policy answers without some draft material to work from
[9:50] You: ok
[9:50] You: that's where the Guild can help
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: so "throw it to the RA" really needs some focused questions or proposals
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: Depend son the schedules
[9:51] You: or better, the Head of Financial Dep can help
[9:51] You: because we can make those financial projections you need
[9:51] Justice Soothsayer: I agree, Jamie. As a legislature we are much better at discussing concerte proposals than writing them.
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: well heh heh
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: 'yes
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: and tat's inherent in legislatures, not a critique ofour group
[9:52] Justice Soothsayer: and I don;t just mean this RA, but the last RAs as well
[9:52] You: nevertheless Justice
[9:52] Sudane Erato:
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: Moon - sorry - I just do not based on history see a current strong likelkihood of the GUld creating detailed plans at this time in anythign like a spedy fashion Am I wrong?
[9:52] You: there is a deeper issue about responsabilitry for teh public space here that's essentially political or philosophical and that doesn't depend upon estimates or projections
[9:53] Jamie Palisades: yes
[9:53] Jamie Palisades: And let me point out
[9:53] Jamie Palisades: base on someone elsse's smart comment in private chat
[9:53] Jamie Palisades: TODAY every one in CDS pays for public space
[9:53] Jamie Palisades: I pay CDS rent in NFS
[9:53] Jamie Palisades: this goes in some sense for the Schloss, the Kirche
[9:53] You: exactly
[9:54] Jamie Palisades: so we already KNOW that it;s OK for us to redirect funds, in that sense
[9:54] Sudane Erato: yes
[9:54] Jamie Palisades: and hsoud not let sim boundary issues ocnfuse this too much
[9:54] Jamie Palisades: the right question for a new sim
[9:54] Jamie Palisades: void or now
[9:54] Jamie Palisades: not
[9:54] You: so... the question then changes a bit for the RA: should RA consider that as precedent?
[9:54] Jamie Palisades: is in my peronal view this:
[9:54] Jamie Palisades: hhow will it change our total occupancy/ rent coverage of tier costs?
[9:54] Jamie Palisades: in other words
[9:55] Jamie Palisades: "can we afford it" on a steady cash flow state?
[9:55] Jamie Palisades:
[9:55] You: we can estimate that
[9:55] You: we take the cost of a void, and divide between the population
[9:55] Justice Soothsayer raised hand
[9:55] Jamie Palisades: Let me hold my other question, and let others speak
[9:55] You: we can even take the cost of the monastery sim, which is already calculated, and take off teh difference and divide it between the CDS population
[9:56] You: Justice, please
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: (yes - and when do we choose to ADD to public supported builds? )
[9:56] Justice Soothsayer: A further question I would like to raise re void sims is whether they can be used in such a way as to make current sims more attrative; if we have trouble selling lots in LA, should we conisder adding on a void sim to make the LA land more attractive, like buying a lot next to a large park.
[9:57] Justice Soothsayer: Condos that overlook Central Park are the most expensive in NYC.
[9:57] You: Justice, definetely
[9:57] Arria Perreault:
[9:57] Jamie Palisades:
[9:57] You: atm, we have a very weird optical effect that i am sure is spoiling the sales on LA
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: or maybe te unsaleable part of LA is the park
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: but yes, generally
[9:57] Justice Soothsayer: So we could see void sims as a shared investment to make our other propoer more valuable.
[9:57] Jamie Palisades nods and smiles
[9:57] You: i would tend to agree with tha
[9:58] Justice Soothsayer: *property
[9:58] You: to resume
[9:58] You: we had an excellent plan for making void sims pay for themselves while adding to the whole
[9:58] Justice Soothsayer: I guess the question that raises is how much more valuable. Thats the kind of thing the RA could rely upon the Guild to help answer.
[9:58] You: that plan was busted by a change in policy from LL
[9:58] You: now we must decide
[9:59] You: shall we carry off teh plan, and support the difference in costs? yes or no?
[9:59] You: planning is very versatile
[9:59] Arria Perreault: the difference between what and what?
[9:59] You: i am sure that we can make optimal void plans that are the less encumbering as possible to CDS
[9:59] You: well, Arria
[10:00] You: your first proposal cost nothing to the CDS
[10:00] You: when LL starts to charge more, there will be a difference of 25 dollars a month, or whatever
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: um
[10:00] Arria Perreault: 50
[10:00] You: the question is: Should teh CDS dibide taht difference between us all
[10:01] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:01] You: considering, as Justice just said, that we may gain benefice from having a coherent, scenic territory instead of something with holes
[10:01] You: ?
[10:01] Arria Perreault: It could be win win
[10:01] You: btw, i won't be able to stand for much longer today
[10:02] You: so i would like to ask you all
[10:02] You: if we, the Guild, should ask these very questions to the RA?
[10:02] Jamie Palisades: Regardless of what the parameters might have been of past proposals. I think Moon has the right questiom for our future.
[10:02] Jamie Palisades: though again
[10:02] Jamie Palisades: you just want to throw them up as abstract questions?
[10:03] You: no, i propose this
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: and How long does the GUild recommend we "freeze" wvereythign else?
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: I fera I am awayr of politics and freezes
[10:03] You: as said, the cost of Monastery sim was already estimated
[10:03] You: i propose that we take that reckoning
[10:03] You: add the new price change
[10:03] You: and project the increase in tier for m2 throughout the CDS
[10:04] You: udane, can we do this?
[10:04] You: Sudane*
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: Little details - this is keeping it as a void, but repriced? SOthe script issues remain? And with our without tenants?
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: *with or without
[10:04] Sudane Erato: hold on... sorry
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: (as tenant density seemed to hit the Linden's other hot issue)
[10:04] You: atm, i am proposing we work upon the Monastery sim, since the whole work was already done
[10:04] You: so it is not an exercise on the abstract
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: Moon you are making a recommndtaion in some detail at the end of a meeting SOmethign I;ve seen a lot of lately
[10:05] You: no, i am exploring solutions
[10:05] Sudane Erato: well... tLL has proposed no price change for all the sims we own... so
[10:05] Sudane Erato: the only study we can do is how the price change would affect the Monastery proposal
[10:05] You: yes, exactly
[10:06] You: because that's teh only concrete data we have so far
[10:06] Jamie Palisades: SO I iwll just have to sbatain and do some msath. I love thw idea of finding a way forward. I;m not thrilled that no one here has *considered* the issues of tenant desnity or other price change risks, before pumping out .. what?> an expert recommendation?
[10:06] You: we are not pumping out a recommendation
[10:06] Sudane Erato: i'm not sure i understand then
[10:06] You: we are tying to pump out a financial projection
[10:06] Jamie Palisades: In a deliberativee body, wouldn't this normaly go back to your WG?
[10:06] Sudane Erato: of a void sim?
[10:06] You: and a question that doesn't belong to us to answer
[10:07] Justice Soothsayer: hmmm, I thought the workgroup said that the finances won't work out favorably when factoring in the new price increase?
[10:07] Jamie Palisades: and if you want a projectio maybe it sould be requested, but be allowe dot take more than 120 seconds ?
[10:07] Sudane Erato: it makes no sense until we have a clear piture of what LL will do
[10:07] Jamie Palisades: what is it with CDS bodies and the last 5 minutes of minutes? (smile)
[10:07] You: Jamie, i don't understand you
[10:07] You: you first ask fro projections in the concrete
[10:07] Jamie Palisades: OK here's a concrete suggestion
[10:08] You: i am here offering you the ionly projection in teh concrete we can give you atm
[10:08] You: based on DATA
[10:08] You: what do you want, a bunny out of my hat?
[10:08] Jamie Palisades: ASK Sudane for projections and assumptions (b) SEND them to your WG (c) HAVE them report back on the Forums, (d) ASSESS it at a Guild meeting
[10:08] Sudane Erato:
[10:08] Jamie Palisades: no bunny neeeded
[10:09] Sudane Erato: projections and assumptions on what?
[10:09] Jamie Palisades: projects - revenue; asumpotions - a few options of what linden s might do
[10:09] You: Sudane dear, on the change of price over the monastery sim
[10:09] You: for the moment
[10:09] You: Jack L published the new prices
[10:09] Arria Perreault: I have calculated the new prices
[10:09] Sudane Erato: but the WG has done those projections and assumptions
[10:09] You: we can work from those
[10:09] You: no no no
[10:10] You: what we need to do is
[10:10] Jamie Palisades: and revnue? I dunno - Guild will have to tyel you whether ther are tenants, first, I guess, to get them from you ... are we still assuming the Lusanne plan with six lakeside cabins?
[10:10] You: take the project as it is
[10:10] You: and project from January on ONLY
[10:10] You: basically: divide 50 dollars between the permillage of CDS territory
[10:11] Sudane Erato: ahh... so keep the tier on the new sim the same for its residents
[10:11] Arria Perreault: why not to calculate a prim price all over the CDS?
[10:11] You: yes Sudane
[10:11] Sudane Erato: and spread the LL increase over the whole CDS
[10:11] Sudane Erato:
[10:11] You: that is one projection we can do
[10:12] Sudane Erato: that sucks... pardon my language
[10:12] Symo Kurka: LOL
[10:12] Arria Perreault: with LL new policy price for voids, we will go from prices land based to prices prims based (and maybe performance based)
[10:12] Timo Gufler: would that practice been used with other future voids than monastery sim?
[10:12] You: since the WG already has made the other projection: how much would teh tier cost if only supported by the monastery residents
[10:12] Sudane Erato: Timo... good question... but I don't think were there yet
[10:12] Timo Gufler: ok
[10:13] Arria Perreault: I have the numbers
[10:13] Symo Kurka: early question...
[10:13] You: Timo, we are lab testing atm
[10:13] You: yes, Symo
[10:13] You: ?
[10:13] Symo Kurka: was answering to Timo...
[10:13] You: oh, ok
[10:13] Arria Perreault: Sudane, what do you think to uniformise price policy in CDS?
[10:13] You: i will ask everyone for final comments now
[10:13] Arria Perreault: based on prims
[10:14] Jamie Palisades smiles -- Moon your instinct to get some calculation done is goo you are just asking the wrong body
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: *good
[10:14] Sudane Erato: well... Arria, its not really related... but I would say that i thinks its a great idea
[10:14] You: then who is the right body?
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: and I stil ldo not know if the Gild has decided that its advice to CDS is to freeze everything, for how long I woudl hatre to see a creeping permafreeze where we are told the guild opposes any growth until and unless we can work out this one option
[10:15] Sudane Erato: we MUST know what the LL policy will be!
[10:15] You: well Jamie
[10:15] Jamie Palisades smiles and waves - well, that's why they cann Sudance and me the "executive" branch
[10:15] Justice Soothsayer: more like a sudden chill than a freeze, i think
[10:15] Jamie Palisades: we execut
[10:15] Jamie Palisades: if permitted
[10:15] You: at this point, the work for the Monastery sim planning is DONE
[10:15] Sudane Erato: everything depends on some certainty there
[10:15] Symo Kurka: we are mixin up things... we have three issues. 1) the monastery simulation as is. 2) the GMP voids as is;. 3) how LL policy can affect our CDS economy...
[10:16] You: Symo is right
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: yes:) judgment calls are required .. and should be brought to the RA
[10:16] You: but that's what i've been saying since we started
[10:16] Jamie Palisades agrees too is any guild action proposed?
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: moon
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: you can;t bring any to the RA unless you have some
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: how do you propose to generate them?
[10:17] You: for the moment, to prepare the projection for the increased tier cost on m2 due to Monastery sim
[10:17] Symo Kurka: (thinks we cannot answer to the 3rd issue but we can work more on the first two)
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: based oincurrent monatesry plan with tenants etc.?
[10:17] Sudane Erato: multiply all numbers by 167%
[10:17] You: yes, because we have data on it
[10:17] Sudane Erato: very simple
[10:17] Arria Perreault: and done
[10:17] Sudane Erato: yes
[10:18] Arria Perreault: even if the sim is bought after January
[10:18] Arria Perreault: (still some $ to spare ... )
[10:18] Timo Gufler: one idea...
[10:18] Symo Kurka: cmon Timo
[10:18] Timo Gufler: if people are abandoning their openspaces because of LL price changes wouldn't it be easy to get one for free?
[10:19] Sudane Erato: hehe
[10:19] Timo Gufler: as a second hand sim
[10:19] Sudane Erato: yes... but tier must be paid
[10:19] You: for free, free, no - but they«ll certainly be lowing prices
[10:19] Arria Perreault: do we have to pay to change the place?
[10:19] Jon Seattle: Especially one of us not for profits who suddenly looses a discount..
[10:19] Sudane Erato: oh... i'll bet even for free
[10:19] Jon Seattle: lets hope it does not come to that
[10:20] You: yes, the problem here is not one-time investment but fixed costs
[10:20] Sudane Erato: Arria?
[10:20] Jamie Palisades: (Timo? pruchase price s a NOTHING It's all about permanent occupancy and rent income))
[10:20] Arria Perreault: yes?
[10:20] Sudane Erato: "change the place"?
[10:20] Timo Gufler: (yes, Jamie)
[10:20] Arria Perreault: to move it through SL
[10:20] Symo Kurka: running costs is the real problem in SL timo
[10:20] Timo Gufler: I know
[10:20] Sudane Erato: ahh... that might be yes... and maybe no
[10:21] Timo Gufler: tiers are high...
[10:21] Arria Perreault: yes, if we buy before January, it could fit for land price
[10:21] Arria Perreault: fees are the problem
[10:21] You: ok
[10:21] You: i must close this meeting now
[10:21] You: let's resume
[10:21] Jamie Palisades: too many variables for a sudden rushed group groping chat without some structure -- you are seeing right now exatcly what would happen in an unfocused RA meeting with no proposales before it
[10:22] Jon Seattle: yes, proposals are needed
[10:22] You: Guild will make an estimate on the increase on tier per m2 throughout the CDS with the data from monastery sim plan
[10:22] You: that estimate will be handed to the RA
[10:22] You: and i will ask the RA the political questions that are not within the Guild's boundaries
[10:22] You: all agree?
[10:23] Sudane Erato: sure!... except i hate the idea of that calc
[10:23] Jon Seattle: yes
[10:23] Sudane Erato: spread the excess money that LL demands of us among all the citizens
[10:23] Jamie Palisades: /.me smile s- sorry, I don;t. Insufficiently structured. Mor detail needed. I will try to propose some but am disappointed if the GUild thikns this level of framed question wil work ell in a deliberateivly body.
[10:23] Sudane Erato: nice concept...
[10:24] Arria Perreault: Jamie, can you tell us exactly what do you propose: who can make the calculations in your mind and what do the calculate (Lausanne plan as you say or not)
[10:24] Arria Perreault: ?
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: certainly
[10:24] Arria Perreault: we hear you
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: but we are interrupting a vot. Moon, do I answer now?
[10:24] You: please do
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: What we need
[10:24] You: i am trying to look for solutions here
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: regardless of source
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: is a small sheaf of tables, which cover
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: effect of as-is Monatesry proposal
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: on current overall oc upancy and tier coverage .. AND
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: assuming
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: . lots of new buyers or all old ones who leave other CDS land
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: AND
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: assuuming
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: linden price changes stay - or don;t
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: ANd finally
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: assuming
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: othear linden price changes soon or not
[10:26] Jamie Palisades: done, thanks
[10:26] You: actually
[10:26] You: i think that the calculations should be done over the square metres
[10:26] Jamie Palisades: such analyses do not get wished into existence, sorry
[10:27] Arria Perreault: tell us who can do this?
[10:27] You: we could calculate over the private m2, or all over m2
[10:27] You: Sudane can
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: and I agree moon, it;s really all (as justice and symo and you said) about didstributed effects across all of CDS land
[10:27] You: sorry Sudane .(
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: you were goign to ask her? or just assume it woudl be done?
[10:27] Arria Perreault: Sudane yes, under which hat?
[10:27] You: Jamie, Sudane is Head of the Financial Dep of teh Guild
[10:27] Arria Perreault: CDS Treasurer or Head of Financial Dpt of the New Guild
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: hee hee how nice that we all have so many hats
[10:28] Jamie Palisades rolls his eyes
[10:28] Sudane Erato:
[10:28] Grey Ashdene: HI. Can I sit in?
[10:28] Sudane Erato: sure!
[10:28] Grey Ashdene: Ok
[10:28] You: hi Grey, surely, but we're almost finishing
[10:28] Justice Soothsayer: fortunately Sudane has a large inventory for her hats
[10:28] You: this meeting is transcripted
[10:28] Arria Perreault: if she calculates under the hat of Head of Financial Dpt of the Guil, it's an internal question in the Guild
[10:29] You: i trust Sudane to wear the hat that fits better
[10:29] Jamie Palisades: ye sthat would be nice if what the Guld wants is to keep it all in the ggild
[10:29] Arria Perreault: if she acts as CDS Treasurer, aybe she need a mandate of the RA
[10:29] Sudane Erato: none of my hats fit very well
[10:29] Jamie Palisades whispers - it's the hair
[10:29] Sudane Erato:
[10:30] Arria Perreault: I know that it is a very sensitive question: under which hat do we act
[10:30] You: sorry guys
[10:30] Arria Perreault: and for everyone
[10:30] You: this is starting to become inconclusive, and indeed i have already asked for final comments some minutes ago
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: oh/ Arria if the RA thikns the Treasurer eropirts to the RA, well that;s another chat for us someday., But what I;d really like to hear from Su is what she feels *comfortable* doing. To omabny of us have learned on her to do too much alone, in my pesonal view, for far too long.
[10:31] You: Sudane is the best qualified person for making those estimates
[10:31] You: as i am sure we all agree, no?
[10:31] Sudane Erato: i will do to the best of my ability what is asked
[10:31] Symo Kurka: yay Moon
[10:31] Arria Perreault: I am not talking about competency, of course
[10:31] You: ok, and i will help you dear
[10:31] Jon Seattle: By far the best person to make those estimates
[10:32] Jamie Palisades: And I will absolutely provide every bit as much help as Moon
[10:32] Arria Perreault: I know that seh is the person to do this
[10:32] Sudane Erato: hehe... so long as i understand then requests
[10:32] You: Jamie, you can start helping by posting your required tables in the Guild forums, btw
[10:32] You: exactly, so that Sudane and I can know exactly what you want to know
[10:32] Jamie Palisades: they're recommedations, and yes I will thanks
[10:33] You: after these estimates are done, i will present them to RA
[10:33] You: all agreeing, say Aye
[10:33] Sudane Erato: aye
[10:33] Jon Seattle: aye
[10:33] Ulysse Alexandre: aye
[10:33] Arria Perreault: A question before voting
[10:33] You: after the vote Arria, please
[10:33] Symo Kurka: aye
[10:33] Arria Perreault: the question is about my ability to vote
[10:33] Timo Gufler: aye
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: moon
[10:34] You: if you have doubts about your ability to vote, abstain
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: sending them to he RA violates the NL 802 yoru faction insisted on
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: so "nay" sorry
[10:34] You: but as a CDS citizen you are entitled to vote
[10:34] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:34] You: sighs
[10:34] Jon Seattle: hm?
[10:34] You: to WHOM then shall they be sent, Jamie?
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: Well moon ants to go straight to the RA akdnd skip one branch of governmetn
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: I dunno, you tell me, I recommended against NL*-2
[10:35] Sudane Erato: ahhh
[10:35] Jon Seattle: what the heck is NL 802?
[10:35] You: Jamie will quote it
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: the statute applied at the last minute sorry typo :"NL 8-2"
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: ask the ra
[10:35] You: no, i am asking YOU
[10:36] You: if you present an objection, then defend it
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: guold makes recommendations to executive .. complete ones .. , executive to RA
[10:36] Sudane Erato: well... we are in a vote, no?
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: feel fre eto act othrerwise and have RA approve THAT too
[10:36] You: in every case, i can present it at same time to both Exec and RA, if that will clear your doubts on the matter
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: htat woudl certainly make it easier for RA to act quickly if that's our goal
[10:37] You: correction then: i will present the projections to Exec and RA
[10:37] You: and now can we proceed with our vote?
[10:38] You: all agreeing, say Aye
[10:38] Sudane Erato: aye
[10:38] Ulysse Alexandre: aye
[10:38] Jon Seattle: I very much doubt NL 8-2 applies to this proceeding in any case.. it does not cover this kind of project, nor does it forbid other procedures.
[10:38] Symo Kurka: aye
[10:38] Jon Seattle: aye
[10:38] Timo Gufler: abstain
[10:38] Grey Ashdene: abstain also
[10:39] Symo Kurka: sorry have to leave folks
[10:39] Sudane Erato: bye Symo!
[10:39] Arria Perreault: is it only the projections or the whole project?
[10:39] You: bye Symo
[10:39] Jon Seattle: byes Symo
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: I wil change my no to abstain. I thin you are asking the right quetsions, even though it;s the wrong way if laws matter
[10:39] You: the projections only, Arria
[10:39] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:40] Justice Soothsayer: I abstain from Guild decisions
[10:41] You: the ayes carry it i think, as i vote aye too
[10:41] Jon Seattle: As an NGO is any case, NG can do what it likes.. you can argue that the RA should not look at the prrojections to them if you like
[10:41] Sudane Erato:
[10:41] You: and now i will move to adjourn
[10:41] Sudane Erato: aye
[10:41] Jon Seattle: aye
[10:42] Grey Ashdene: aye
[10:42] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:42] Ulysse Alexandre: aye
[10:42] Timo Gufler: aye
[10:43] Sudane Erato: ty all
[10:43] You: thanks everyone
[10:43] Justice Soothsayer: bye all
[10:43] Arria Perreault: thank you all
[10:43] You: the rest of the items will be tabled for next meeting
[10:43] You: afk, while i copy the transcript

[Jamie Palisades]

Towards the end of the last Guild meeting, we were discussing possible analyses, that would permit us all better to assess the potential for Arria Perrault's Monastery sim plan, in light of the recent price changes announced by Linden Labs for open space (void) sims.
There's more detail on those analyses posted here: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php? ... 193#p12328
I believe the group found a plausible way forward to assess this, with the Guild's help and particularly Sudane's.

However, reading the transcript, it also looks like we miscommunicated about the process that applies.
I think I incorrectly understood Moon's suggestion that the requested analysis would be sent from the Guild to the RA.
So far, we're using the RA's instruction to use NL 8-2, which will take us through several steps after any report from the Guild.
Other Guild members also raised good questions about which "legal path" we're taking. I'm not clear on the intent of the proposers and RA members either. But we ought to be able to deal with feasibility first, in any case.
Reading back now, I can see that Moon only intended to suggesting that we get the analysis done ... which is a good instinct, appropriately trying to move us forward to some basis for constructive recommendation for the Guild. My apologies for any misunderstandings.
Regards Jamie