Board Guild Meeting 26th Oct 2008 - Transcript

[Moon Adamant]

[11:11] You: ok, more than enough people to start
[11:11] You: welcome everyone
[11:11] You: don't forget the meeting will be transcripted
[11:11] You: agenda in the green box
[11:11] You: Arria is afk for a few minutes, she warned me
[11:12] You: so with your assent i'll move forward in the agenda
[11:12] You: Arria, please warn us when you're back
[11:12] You: point 2
[11:12] You: 2. Assessment of Locus Amoenus IP licensing and paying
[11:12] You: how are we on this?
[11:13] Jamie Palisades: DId we get the requests? The amenities had been reviewed and OK'd.
[11:13] Sudane Erato: well... Rose and I have looked at the chart
[11:13] Sudane Erato: and she has suggested an admin procedure
[11:13] You: ok
[11:13] Sudane Erato: but I haven't modified the chart yet
[11:13] You: ok
[11:13] Jamie Palisades: But I do not recall seeing the darn list. Is that a spreadshset I can access, Su? Or the one I couldn;t?
[11:13] Rose Springvale: we'd like to have a place on the forum .. perhaps in guild thread
[11:14] You: it's just that we'll haveto work backwards from LA
[11:14] Sudane Erato: i think the spreadsheet is public...?
[11:14] Rose Springvale: whre we can post and sign the license agreement
[11:14] Rose Springvale: no, its shareed with moon, jamie, you and i, sudane
[11:14] Sudane Erato: ahh... ok
[11:14] You: hmmm, a different archive thread for simplicity of consultation?
[11:14] Rose Springvale: just where only the license agreement and assent would be posted
[11:14] Jamie Palisades: Yes - Rose - as to the IP< we agreed to acept as affective a public posting by an artisan on the Forums that they agree to the application of the terms (which you can URL)
[11:15] Jamie Palisades: *effectiuve
[11:15] Jamie Palisades: Not so?
[11:15] You: i'll have to ask that from the SC then
[11:15] Rose Springvale: yes
[11:15] Jamie Palisades: um
[11:15] Rose Springvale: yes, that's what i thought
[11:15] Jamie Palisades: Moon? no need - we can use existing forum space can;t we?
[11:15] You: of course, you don't even need to ASK
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seemed to be easier that way?...
[11:15] Jamie Palisades nods
[11:16] You: but i was just making sure what Rose really wants
[11:16] You: just forum space or an archive thread
[11:16] Rose Springvale: i only wanted it to be clear and easy. the forums are not very easy for many people to navigate but have no strong feelngs
[11:17] Rose Springvale: so we will post the license agreement and as soon as archive copies are delivered and assent indicated, we can pay
[11:17] You: ok, then let's do this
[11:17] You: use the Guild's thread
[11:17] You: start every post with IPLICENSE or something so it's easy to browse
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that would surely work...
[11:18] You: if later on we see it's hard to navigate, we'll ask the SC for a proper thread
[11:18] Jamie Palisades likes it - let's do as Moon suggests
[11:19] You: ok
[11:19] Jamie Palisades: (re-use of tools good )
[11:19] You: Arria, you there?
[11:19] You: apparently not
[11:19] Arria Perreault: yes
[11:19] You: ah
[11:19] You: yay
[11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:19] You: can i ask you to please rez the maps your rezzed at RA?
[11:20] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:22] Arria Perreault: they are rezzing
[11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: even slower here than on CN hehe
[11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah I'm seeing them all now!
[11:22] You: i have them rezzed
[11:22] Arria Perreault: great
[11:22] You: everyone is seeing them?
[11:22] Arria Perreault: right, you have the relief
[11:23] Sonja Strom: yes
[11:23] Moon Adamant listens to Arria
[11:23] Arria Perreault: the lake is on LA side
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, i see the sim integrated within the map... great!
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry, I'll hush now!)
[11:23] Jamie Palisades listens to creaky sim sounds underneath the Schloss, as five hamsters run fast oin their cages to rez Arria's charts
[11:23] Arria Perreault: the sea is the continuation of LA sea
[11:23] Arria Perreault: my comments
[11:24] Arria Perreault: the Monastery will be at the same level than today (around), on the small flat area in the middle
[11:24] You: ok
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[11:24] Arria Perreault: the plots for sale will be a small fishing village near the sea
[11:24] You: nods
[11:25] Timo Gufler: what shall be the theme?
[11:25] You: alpine, as in AM
[11:25] Sonja Strom: Hi Ulysse
[11:25] You: hi Ulysse
[11:25] Timo Gufler: what about the prims per lot?
[11:25] Arria Perreault: yes
[11:25] Delia Lake: hi Ulysse
[11:25] Ulysse Alexandre: hello all
[11:25] Arria Perreault: please, I will give info in an certain order, Timo
[11:26] Arria Perreault: Ulysse has drawn these plans
[11:26] Timo Gufler: sorry
[11:26] Ulysse Alexandre: $$sorry Delia
[11:26] You: yes, please let Arria present the project... i myself want to do some comments later
[11:26] Delia Lake: np
[11:26] Arria Perreault: all the east part of the sim is free of construction and can be use for recreationnal activities, especially in winter: skate on the lake
[11:27] Arria Perreault: the slope could use for ski or better for sled
[11:27] Arria Perreault: Ulysse is a specialist and can talk about
[11:27] Arria Perreault: on the second map from the left, you can see the differnt roads
[11:27] Arria Perreault: and the plots
[11:28] Arria Perreault: there are 6 plots 512 msq/250 prims/ 12 US$ fee month
[11:28] You: nods
[11:28] Arria Perreault: and a 7th corresponding to the Library of the Monastery that Virtus will rent for 15 US $ month
[11:29] Arria Perreault: so Virtus will pay something to use and manage the Monastery
[11:29] Arria Perreault: the rest of the building will be on public land
[11:29] You: ok
[11:30] Arria Perreault: I think that the plots will be attractive for people
[11:30] Sudane Erato: how many prims will the Monastery have?
[11:30] Arria Perreault: 50% of prims are for public use
[11:30] Arria Perreault: 40% for privvate use
[11:31] Arria Perreault: and 10% for NGO use
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, this might be one point for discussion
[11:31] Arria Perreault: for special exhibition, NGO can use some public prims as usual
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but let's finish the presentation first, sorry
[11:32] Arria Perreault: for now, I am finished
[11:32] You: ok
[11:32] You: my comments then
[11:32] You:
[11:32] You: first of all, congrats on such clear maps
[11:33] Arria Perreault: thank you to Ulysse
[11:33] Ulysse Alexandre: yw Arria
[11:33] You: i like the relief, because it effectively solves one thing that was a point of major discussion about LA
[11:33] You: by making such a steep promontory, you effectively transform the LA land into the easiest way to pass roads
[11:33] Arria Perreault: Ulysse has made measurements on both existing sims
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly, Moon
[11:34] You: i would like to ask you if the road passing by the monastery sim connects to the road coming from LA?
[11:34] Ulysse Alexandre: ys
[11:34] You: and same way, if teh road by the fishing hamlet connects to LA?
[11:34] You: sorry, AM on the first sentence
[11:35] You: ok
[11:35] Ulysse Alexandre: of course
[11:35] You: you are applying a multiplier on the sim, right?
[11:35] Arria Perreault: we can also imagine a road behind the lake
[11:35] Ulysse Alexandre: as it is a void sim the multiplier is different
[11:35] You: yes, we can make a forest path
[11:35] You: yes, that i had realized
[11:36] You: i assume that the diagonal line N-S is the ski/sled track?
[11:36] Arria Perreault: yes
[11:36] Ulysse Alexandre: we have only about 3700 prims
[11:36] You: ok
[11:36] You: so my comments are
[11:36] Ulysse Alexandre: but the slope is quite terrific
[11:37] You: first of all, a workgroup must be created
[11:37] Ulysse Alexandre: it will be a black run
[11:37] You: i propose that you and Arria chair it
[11:37] Sudane Erato: the multiplier is about 8.5
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 8.5!!!
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow!
[11:37] Sudane Erato: yes... in order to have 250 prims for the 512 parcels
[11:37] Rose Springvale: hm
[11:37] Rose Springvale: a normal 512 has 117
[11:37] Timo Gufler: I would like to ask what do the public 50% prims (2250) include?
[11:37] Ulysse Alexandre: that's right
[11:38] You: landscape, mainly
[11:38] You: roads
[11:38] Jamie Palisades: hahah Ulysee - it is a good thing that in SL i am an expert skiier
[11:38] You: from what i am seeing
[11:38] Arria Perreault: and the Monastery building in this case
[11:38] Ulysse Alexandre: for trees, road etc
[11:38] You: ok
[11:38] You: but let me get back to my train of thought
[11:39] You: since Virtus sim will be a public sim, it becomes a NG Board project
[11:39] You: thus, i am asking people to form a workgroup
[11:39] You: which i suggest be chaired by Arria, Ulysee or both
[11:39] Arria Perreault: Let say both
[11:39] You: this workgroup will continue working
[11:39] You: and will report as other workgroups do
[11:40] You: ok?
[11:40] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:40] You: what is essential now
[11:40] You: is that ou present us with a spreadsheet
[11:40] You: for the financial assessment of the project
[11:40] You: and that is going to be your next task
[11:40] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh yes, and I'm sure some of the people here in the meeting will wish to make some suggestions too
[11:41] Jamie Palisades: Moon, I will have a few comments and requests when it;s convenient.
[11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I knew it hehe )
[11:41] You: go ahead Jamie
[11:41] You: i am done
[11:41] Jamie Palisades: Perhsaps Madame Senator does too She spoke first
[11:41] Jamie Palisades: I;m happy to speak after her
[11:41] Jamie Palisades: Prefer it, in fact
[11:41] You: then Gwyn, and Jamie next
[11:42] You: and others, please state your wish to speak
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, no, just raising a small point really: it has been a recent effort by the CDS overall,
[11:42] Rose Springvale will listen and then decide
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to get 'public areas' sponsored by a group
[11:42] Sudane Erato: i have only the question of roughly how many prims the moastery uses?
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if the same could be done on this new sim.
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's all really — I'll let Jamie go next
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Pip!)
[11:43] Arria Perreault: may I answer first?
[11:43] You: hi Pip, agenda on the green box, please record meeting will be transcripted
[11:43] You: yes, Arria, please answer
[11:43] Pip Torok: tks
[11:43] You: remind*
[11:45] Arria Perreault: 'public areas' sponsored by a group: this is the idea of this seventh plot. Virtus will pay for a part of the public building. Thwn we can design a service level agreement between CDS and NGO about the management, but basically both can use the building, especially the totally public part
[11:45] Arria Perreault: to Sudane: now the Monastery plot has 1400 prims
[11:45] Sudane Erato: thx
[11:45] Arria Perreault: for building and activities (exhibition)
[11:46] Arria Perreault: the idea is to fuction like other NGO: for project we can ask to use public prims
[11:47] Arria Perreault: this mean that if Virtus have a project of exhibition, it can ask for public prims
[11:47] Arria Perreault: if CDS will make an event in Monastery, it can too
[11:47] You: ok
[11:47] Arria Perreault: with these 7 plots, we equilibrate the finance
[11:47] You: the discussion about the public-private use of the monastery doesn't belong to the Guild
[11:48] You: properly
[11:48] Arria Perreault: yes
[11:48] Rose Springvale: lol
[11:48] You: but must be solved through legislation or a contractual doc between Virtus and the CDS
[11:48] Rose Springvale: but ra keeps saying it does!
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, that'll be the task of the financial assessment by the Executive hehe
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, and yes Moon
[11:48] You: i would like to hear Jamie now
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that too — if the Exec recomemnds it
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too
[11:48] Arria Perreault: yes
[11:48] Jamie Palisades: OK
[11:48] Jamie Palisades: Here are the preliminary comments from your executive branch on the Monastery proposal.
(a) As you probably know, I support it in theory, FWIW, and I think the RA does too. I am NOT troubled about the legal basis for this ... because if the RA is CAREFUL it can approve ANYTHING AND make it WORK: we just need to get the details right.
[11:48] Arria Perreault: I am done with answer
[11:49] Jamie Palisades: ...
[11:49] Jamie Palisades: (b) A reminder: we are using the NL 8-2 governance review scheme, which I think is sensible. Do take a look. Thus, once the Guild gives comment, it goes to me for review as specified in NL 8-2, then to the RA for decision.
[11:49] Jamie Palisades: ..
[11:49] Jamie Palisades: .. is Arria not done?
[11:49] Jamie Palisades: sorry?
[11:49] Jamie Palisades waits
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (she is: [11:48] Arria Perreault: I am done with answer)
[11:50] Jamie Palisades: ((ah, sorry, Arria's avatar still is typing on my screen - lag maybe))
[11:50] Arria Perreault: sorry...with lag, my answer come too late
[11:50] Jamie Palisades: ...
[11:50] You: in mine as well
[11:50] Jamie Palisades: (c) I have asked the Guild for an independent review .. meaning only that Arria acts as the proposer, not a guild member, for the review. I ask that this Guild review proceed on an announced schedule if at all possible. We owe predictability to Virtus ... owe care to CDS .. and owe reasonable speed to the RA and the opportunity. Not to forget 'transparency' ... which in my view requires four elements. (1) Thoughtful planning when we take official acts, instead of just squirting indecipherable first impressions ... (2) good listening behaviors and a lack of ad hominem behavior thoughout ...(3) clear and sensible public proceedings .. and (4) time for the public & stakeholders to react, in an internet-based, global asynchronous community. For that latter reason, I am interested in the Guild's guess as to its schedule tfor reacting to this proposal. ...
[11:50] Jamie Palisades: ...
[11:50] Jamie Palisades: (d) On the elements of the review, it would be my hope that the Guild confirms the following: (i) whether the prim and lot size and rent numbers foot arithmetically, (ii) the map's conformance to other existing terrain to to other running amenities like roads and water, (iii) the general compatability of the plan with GMP, noting changes if the plan implies signficants changes ot the GMP, (iv) any public amenity issues we need for CDS, (v) any comments about the perceived feasibility of the proposed rental places, and (vI) any comments from the Guild's NGO role about how the final plan works generally with CDS NGO land treatment. Now ...
[11:51] Jamie Palisades: ont ONE of those, so far,. I have an inexpert and unsoliticed personal opinion for now
[11:51] You: i disagree with VI)
[11:51] Jamie Palisades: getting there
[11:51] Jamie Palisades: On (v), based on today's "Lausanne" plan. grin, I am a little newly concerned, as I said, that the seaside plan for lots resemble the sea level LA plots that were and are SLOW to sell, and did not at all go to newbies ... and do not resemble the smaller hillside AM lots that QUICKLY sell, and largely to newbies. Please take a look at our current map of plots for sale. It's visible to all on the default SL software Flat is not selling. Water does not seem to be as strong a newbie sale ... certainly there is a lot OF that in SL, versus hsceniuc mountains ...
[11:51] Sonja Strom: Moon, really? Why?
[11:51] Jamie Palisades: so aesthetic take on that item (v) woud be useful also, if the Guild or its memebrs have any
[11:52] You: Sonja: because VI) is a political point that must be solved by RA or Exec instead of by Guild
[11:52] Jamie Palisades: Done. Moon, I share Sonja's question. WHy is (vi) awrong?
[11:52] Jamie Palisades: hm well
[11:52] Jamie Palisades: let me be precise
[11:52] Jamie Palisades: I do not ask (vi) as a question of the reviewing body
[11:53] Jamie Palisades: I ask (vi) as a quetsion especially relevant to Guild becaue IT TOO is an NGO
[11:53] Jamie Palisades: Just as I will ask MoCA
[11:53] You: btw, i would appreciate if you could prlease post the Exec specs on a thread of their own in the Guild forum
[11:53] Jamie Palisades: better phased, perhaps, like this:
[11:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[11:53] Jamie Palisades: \How doe sthe CDS New GUild feel about the manner in which the plan will treat NGO virtus land versus NGO New Guild land?
[11:53] Jamie Palisades:
[11:53] Sudane Erato:
[11:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah!
[11:54] Jamie Palisades: Arria';s proposl change may have mooted this point! But I do not yet know that, have not seent rents chart.
[11:54] Rose Springvale raises hand to join queue
[11:54] You: we don't feel anything at all
[11:54] Jamie Palisades: *seen rent chart
[11:54] Jamie Palisades: done thx
[11:54] Jamie Palisades: Perhaps you do not, Moon
[11:54] Jamie Palisades: Personally.
[11:54] You: it was a compromise assumed by this Guild from teh start that we would be paying normal rent for our space
[11:54] You: now apparently the rules are changing
[11:54] You: but it's not us doing the rules
[11:55] Jamie Palisades: Is the Monastery rent to be 10 times the per meter rate for Guild? one tenth? (smile, shrug)
[11:55] You: so let's wait till a decision is made on those rules
[11:55] Jamie Palisades: And the GUld woul dnot care either ay?
[11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:55] You: Jamie, as said, it's a question of principle here
[11:55] Jamie Palisades looks around, smiles, shrugs, it;s for this group to say
[11:55] You: of course
[11:56] Jamie Palisades: fooey, dear. Guild is a tenant. Of CDS. AS your landlord i am asking you now. Do you care if we rent tpo another NGO at a different rate?
[11:56] You: if you can, you can pursue RA members with a poster saying ' What about the poor Guild?!'
[11:56] Jamie Palisades: Feel free to say no as a group but I ... must ... ask
[11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so you'd wish to avoid 'envy' and 'jealousy', Jamie... 'hey, why does OUR NGO need to pay premium for tier, when others don't?'
[11:56] Rose Springvale: or better said, as a citizen, why do i share tier for some ngo's but not all
[11:56] You: for the objective of this discussion
[11:56] Arria Perreault: is there an official rate for NGO?
[11:56] You: we are facing a new model here
[11:56] Jamie Palisades: htat sort of thing, Gwyn yesm - but MAY not be an issue! After all the MoCA rent issue has been all over variable during its long history
[11:57] Arria Perreault: I have asked several time
[11:57] You: she crashed
[11:57] Jamie Palisades: GREAT wuestion Arria
[11:57] Arria Perreault: I have asked it
[11:57] Rose Springvale: some of us are working on a bill, but i've seen nothing like that from any factions
[11:57] Jamie Palisades: You and I disussed whether a dicscount to NGOs makes sense -- what does this plan assume?
[11:57] You: as far as i know, there isn't a fixed rate for NGOs
[11:57] You: THOUGH
[11:57] Arria Perreault: but I don't think that a NGO rent land like normal people
[11:58] Rose Springvale: but what makes an NGO.. next questions
[11:58] Sudane Erato: NGOs have paid the going rate for the land in the location that they occupy
[11:58] You: ALL current NGOs in the CDS use more prims than thiose allotted by their land
[11:58] Arria Perreault: and in my last model, we don't rent the Monastery
[11:58] You: so in a way you could say, yes, NGOs get it cheaper
[11:58] Delia Lake: since the current tier paying system was installed, MoCA has paid its assigned, and not variable, tier every month
[11:58] Arria Perreault: only a part and we manage it
[11:58] You: i find it useful to think sometimes prims instead of land
[11:58] You: but in any case
[11:59] You: it doesn't retract from what i said
[11:59] Sonja Strom: Sorry, I need to leave for RL.
[11:59] Sonja Strom: Bye everybody.
[11:59] Rose Springvale: i have some comments and do need to leave soon as well
[11:59] You: if the CDS desires to proceed with a different politics towards NGOs, of couurse we'll go with it
[11:59] Jamie Palisades: thanks Sonja (hug)
[11:59] You: bye Sonja
[11:59] Rose Springvale: i'd like to get them in the record if i may
[11:59] Arria Perreault: I was told in forums that NGO can ask to use public land and this was considered as a service that CDS give to NGO (instead of money)
[11:59] Ulysse Alexandre: bye Sonia
[11:59] You: Rose, just let me finish
[12:00] You: BUT the development iof policies is NOT a NG concern, but belongs to the RA/Exec
[12:00] You: finished
[12:00] You: Rose, please?
[12:00] Rose Springvale: As most of you know, i am still disturbed that we are pursuing a public sim without public input.. that the community may well support this but also has other things that may have received more interest and support had the process been open AS a public sim.
[12:01] Rose Springvale: that said, i have specific concernst with this proposal, to wit:
[12:01] You: hi Naftali
[12:01] Rose Springvale: 1. speaking as someone who actively promotes land sales in CDS :marketability.. agree with jamie, alpine lots, easy sell, fishing village. not in my experience
[12:01] You: agenda on the green box, meeting transcripted
[12:01] Naftali Torok: excuse me, i fel asleep in front of tv....grins
[12:01] Rose Springvale: 2. concern re performance,,, experience says 7 parcels on a void is asking for trouble. adding skiing, fishing, etc, increases load, not only on this ism, but on on adjacent sims
[12:02] Rose Springvale: 3. costs not consistent with rest of CDS
[12:02] Rose Springvale: 4. monastery uses 1400 out of 3750 now, how many public prims for exhibitions and how does that effect the other public uses outlined and why not have virtus hold the entire plot as it does now? wiil you bring proposed operating agreement for review
[12:02] Rose Springvale: done
[12:03] You: Arria, please
[12:03] Jamie Palisades: ((I will respond briefly and informally to something Rose said, after this meeting's over, for those who wish to remain.))
[12:03] Rose Springvale: would like to hear that too JP
[12:03] Arria Perreault: I try to answer. I start with the last question
[12:04] Arria Perreault: I may add that we will make the Montery a bit lighter.
[12:04] Arria Perreault: The building witll use a part of these public prims and the rest can be use for the landscape and for special projects like exibitions of CDS events
[12:06] Arria Perreault: 3 and 1. We have tried to make attractive plots. The information that cottges in the slope are easier to sell is new for me (from RA meeting). It was the other option: have separate plots on the sim
[12:06] Arria Perreault: we can evaluate this without problem
[12:07] Arria Perreault: the current solution had the advantage of avoiding vicinity with other sims
[12:08] Arria Perreault: 2. performance: I know that it is a void sim, but we know how the traffic is in our sims
[12:08] You: i must interrupt here to say that tthe project shows some possibility of versatily regarding the question of sea vs slope plots
[12:08] Jamie Palisades: (agree, Moon)
[12:08] Arria Perreault: definitely not a place for events like concert . I agree
[12:08] Arria Perreault: I am done
[12:08] You: ok
[12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn has just something to add. The plots on the 5th sim are all pre-sold. Now, if this means that a few plots in AM will be left empty, and those are 'slope plots' which are easy to sell, that is good news, right?...
[12:08] You: i am just going to add
[12:08] Rose Springvale: not sure that 2 is answered
[12:09] Moon Adamant waits
[12:09] Rose Springvale: so all the plots belong to current citizens?
[12:09] Rose Springvale: and sales will not be open in the new sim to anyone ?
[12:10] Timo Gufler: pre-sold?!
[12:10] Jamie Palisades: Sorry? No, pre-sold to Virtus temporarily until rented out ...
[12:10] Arria Perreault: all sim are for sale to anyone
[12:10] Timo Gufler: ok
[12:10] Rose Springvale: my mistake, i thought gwyn meant that am people were buying them
[12:10] Jamie Palisades: and it is Virtus expectation to make up some of its expense in PAYING for the Sim by taking back in the initial sales revenues after opening, yes?
[12:10] Arria Perreault: I just have proposed to "buy " them provisory to avoid CDS to have empty plots
[12:11] Jamie Palisades nods
[12:11] Rose Springvale: not sure how gwyns comment relates then
[12:11] Arria Perreault: but if someone is interestd now, he/she can alsready reserve
[12:11] Timo Gufler: I am, please
[12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. No it doesn't, Rose
[12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's my mistake, I misunderstood things... mmmh I need to think more about it then, but I'll not 'monopolise' the chat
[12:12] Rose Springvale: sudane, what is your experience with multiple builds on open spaces?
[12:12] Jamie Palisades: you mean, prim / script load issues, rose? or what?
[12:13] Sudane Erato: well... in SLNE we don't push the envelope too much... every void sim is only one parcel, with one owner
[12:13] Rose Springvale: yes, and ffect on adjacent sms
[12:13] Sudane Erato: no effect on adjacent sims
[12:13] Rose Springvale: but only one owner per sim
[12:13] Sudane Erato: each sim is a separate load
[12:13] Sudane Erato: thats what we do, yes
[12:14] Timo Gufler: many openspaces are nowadays sold with four plots
[12:14] Rose Springvale: indeed, and there are many unhappy owners on them Timo
[12:14] Sudane Erato: yes... 3750 is not many prims
[12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
[12:15] Arria Perreault: anyway the Monastery orgnaize exhibitions: that means no events with a big number of people
[12:15] Timo Gufler: one reason for unhappiness is that the sim is running in the same processor core as four others as far as I know
[12:15] You: that is correct
[12:15] Sudane Erato: Timo, yes... but nowadays thats true of all sims..
[12:15] Rose Springvale: three others. four total
[12:15] Timo Gufler: if there is another club sim it will tka emuch power
[12:15] Timo Gufler: yes
[12:15] You: but Sudane is correct too
[12:16] Sudane Erato: even full sims share cores in one processeor, to my understanding
[12:16] You: all our sims are placed in multicore machines
[12:16] Timo Gufler: but four opensims share one core
[12:16] Timo Gufler: not same processor
[12:16] Timo Gufler: not only
[12:16] Rose Springvale: my question to the guild though is if this is the model CDS wants.. it seems to me that it pushes the limits
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, like Timo says
[12:17] You: i would say at this respect that we'll have to do the experiment
[12:17] Sudane Erato: thats why there are only 3750 prims
[12:17] Rose Springvale: scripts are shared too
[12:17] You: as you all know, not ALL NFSers are on NFS at same time
[12:17] You: everyday
[12:17] You: the same is bound to happen at an open space sim
[12:17] Rose Springvale: i like the topography, but the uses seem mor approprate to a full sim
[12:18] Arria Perreault: we have designed this project knowing that we have only 3750 prims
[12:18] Sudane Erato: well... regarding the loading... we could always start this way...
[12:19] Sudane Erato: and then if we ran into serious problems... reduce the number of residents
[12:19] Sudane Erato: or parcels
[12:19] Timo Gufler: who shall decide who leaves?
[12:19] You: in my opinion, that is bound to solve by itself Timo
[12:19] Arria Perreault: at the begiining I will have several parcel: we can merge easely
[12:20] Timo Gufler: of course
[12:20] Sudane Erato: these are all workgroup matters
[12:20] Timo Gufler: but if there are 6 newbies...
[12:20] You: yes, nevertheless
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:20] You: the public discussion is important
[12:20] Jamie Palisades: Goopd point Tim but we do have lawas for that sort of thing and appeals
[12:20] Timo Gufler: lawas?
[12:21] You: and the NG, as an adhocracy, is the more public you can get
[12:21] Arria Perreault: laws, I presume
[12:21] Jamie Palisades: Sorry l a w s -- In SLNE, Caledon or such places, the emperor just decides
[12:21] Sudane Erato:
[12:21] Timo Gufler: haha
[12:21] You: but ok everyone
[12:21] Arria Perreault: we have other plots available
[12:21] Jamie Palisades: Here if someone was going to get thrown out, I;d get crcuified if we don;t do it cerafully with proper process in a nondiscrininatory way which I thikn is goodpublic
[12:21] You: we are reaching 1h30 of meeting
[12:22] You: i'd like to run some other points still
[12:22] Rose Springvale: argh, i have to go. still plaing baseball in texas
[12:22] You: lol Rose
[12:22] Rose Springvale: playing*
[12:22] You: what a passion
[12:22] You:
[12:22] Rose Springvale: kids
[12:22] Naftali Torok: lol
[12:22] Arria Perreault: bye bye Rose
[12:22] You: bye Rosie, have fun
[12:22] Jamie Palisades: Thanks Rose, bye
[12:22] Naftali Torok: i will pickup cindy tomorrow here in airport amsterdam....guys
[12:22] Timo Gufler: bye Rose
[12:23] Naftali Torok: yu will hear from us coming week
[12:23] Ulysse Alexandre: good bye Rose
[12:23] Delia Lake: bye Rose enjoy
[12:23] You: yay! a hug from me to her! )
[12:23] Rose Springvale: oh .. anyone have time to run metanomics tomorrow?
[12:23] Naftali Torok: ok
[12:23] Naftali Torok: mmm
[12:23] Rose Springvale: sigh. send me a note. byeee
[12:23] Jamie Palisades: take care of her Nafi, we want her back safe
[12:23] Delia Lake: i have to check. i think i might be able to run it
[12:23] Naftali Torok: if yu find nobody, we can try to do it from here
[12:23] Naftali Torok: but i ont know now how our days will look
[12:24] Timo Gufler: I have a question
[12:24] Naftali Torok: ok rose
[12:24] You: yes Timo?
[12:24] Timo Gufler: do you think six plots is good number?
[12:24] Timo Gufler: 250 prims sound a bit scary to me
[12:24] You: in what way?
[12:24] Timo Gufler: is this going to be a newbiew sim?
[12:25] Timo Gufler: well it's not much for house and furniture
[12:25] You: eheheh you don't live in NFS, i can see
[12:25] Sudane Erato: hehe
[12:25] Arria Perreault: we would like to attract people interested to work with Monastery, like artist
[12:25] Delia Lake: the NFS city plots are only 50-60 prims
[12:25] You: 31
[12:25] Timo Gufler: oh
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* yes
[12:25] Sudane Erato: 32 prims
[12:25] Ulysse Alexandre: and not in CN too
[12:26] Timo Gufler: that's something...
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I have a shop in CN with just 10 or so prims left after the building on top...
[12:26] Ulysse Alexandre: I want have 250 prims in CN
[12:26] You: and CN was LUXURIOUS compared with NFS
[12:26] Timo Gufler: you must be "starving"...
[12:26] Timo Gufler:
[12:26] Arria Perreault: yes, I have made my fisrt exhib with 110 prims
[12:26] Sudane Erato:
[12:26] Timo Gufler: often people are strugling even with 937 prims
[12:27] Jamie Palisades: Not if they design well, Timo
[12:27] Timo Gufler: I know
[12:27] Sudane Erato: thats how i make $$ in SLNE
[12:27] You:
[12:27] Sudane Erato: selling prims
[12:27] You: ok guys
[12:27] Jamie Palisades: First land plots always had 117 prims, kids we got by, at first
[12:27] You: let's resume
[12:28] You: we are agreed that a workgroup will be created to prepare the data necessary for the construction of the prim
[12:28] You: ?
[12:28] Jamie Palisades: Do tell SU You are an expert. WHAT configuration sells better, in your view?
[12:28] Sudane Erato: yes
[12:28] You: all agreeing, say aye
[12:28] Sudane Erato: aye
[12:28] Jamie Palisades: aye
[12:28] You: after the vote, please
[12:28] Ulysse Alexandre: aye
[12:28] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[12:28] Delia Lake: aye
[12:28] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:29] You: the ayes have it, i vote aye as well
[12:29] Jamie Palisades smiles and renews his question to Sudane
[12:29] Jamie Palisades: Hell, everyone knows experts wear hats
[12:29] You: next, i would like to propose the motion that Ulysse and/or Arria chair the workgroup, all agreeing, say aye
[12:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[12:30] Sudane Erato: hehe
[12:30] You: just a sec, Jamie, please
[12:30] Jamie Palisades: I speak against this.
[12:30] Arria Perreault: there is a market for every kind of plots
[12:30] Jamie Palisades: Moon sorry did not know you had more business.
[12:30] You: well, i did say i was trying to resume
[12:30] Jamie Palisades: But Arris or Virtus will chair the assessmenf ot its own project by CDS?
[12:30] Jamie Palisades: I ask for - HAve asked for - independent review.
[12:30] You: sorry, do you mean assessment or development?
[12:31] Arria Perreault: only the workgroup (= doing the work)
[12:31] Arria Perreault: the Guild make the review
[12:31] Jamie Palisades: so ... this is not the econd stage contemplated by NL 8-2?
[12:31] You: because of course, when the workgroup has all data, it will undergo Guild approval
[12:31] Jamie Palisades: *second
[12:31] You: and then RA approval
[12:31] You: yes
[12:31] Jamie Palisades: No Moon desar. Guild to me, then me to RA Based on Gwyn's RA motion
[12:31] You: we are gathering data atm
[12:31] You: ok
[12:32] You: same thing
[12:32] Jamie Palisades: heh that's why I want so desperately to have the guild do the assersment I;m stuck with it otherwise
[12:32] You: but we will do it
[12:32] Sudane Erato: hehe
[12:32] Jamie Palisades: If you think so Moon, then I exuse myself and respectuflyl disagtree
[12:32] You: that's why i already set a task on the workgroup
[12:32] Jamie Palisades: I weill send my after-meeting comments to the Forum. Best regards
[12:32] You: do a spreasheet for financial evaluation
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye Jamie!
[12:33] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:33] Arria Perreault: bye Jamie
[12:33] You: and have asked you also to please post your specs in a Guild thread so that the workgroup can answer them~
[12:33] Delia Lake: bye Jamie
[12:33] Ulysse Alexandre: bye Jamie
[12:33] You: bye Jamie
[12:33] You: ok, resuming vote
[12:34] You: all agreeing that Arria and/or Ulyssee should chair the Monastery Sim workgroup say aye
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[12:34] Sudane Erato: abstain
[12:34] Ulysse Alexandre abstain
[12:35] You: more votes?
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles
[12:35] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:35] You: come on guys, i'd like to get some dinner
[12:35] Sudane Erato: hehe
[12:35] Naftali Torok: lol, aye
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:35] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:36] You: ok
[12:36] You: and i vote aye as well
[12:36] You: and the ayes take it
[12:36] You: ok
[12:36] You: hmmmm
[12:36] Delia Lake: abstain.
[12:36] You: hm
[12:36] You: can someone recount ayes and abstains?
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4 ayes, 2 abstains?
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: NO1
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5 AYES
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL sorry
[12:37] You: and 3 abstains
[12:37] Ulysse Alexandre: 3 abstains
[12:37] Delia Lake: in looking over the chat, it isn't clear to me how the review is going to happen.
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Ulysse & Moon lol
[12:37] You: Delia, same way as the other sims
[12:37] You: it's done here
[12:38] You: with a public vote
[12:38] Arria Perreault: We have do so for AM for example
[12:38] Arria Perreault: why to do differently this time?
[12:38] Delia Lake: ok. thx
[12:38] You: all projects are reviewed by the Guild (public)
[12:38] Arria Perreault: we are in the same process
[12:38] You: then proceed to political review by Exec/RA
[12:38] Arria Perreault: the workgroup just do the work
[12:39] You: yes, the WG is the slaves
[12:39] Arria Perreault: and anyone can join it and participate
[12:39] You: exactly, very important Arria
[12:39] Arria Perreault: may I add something?
[12:39] You: and i almost forgot to tell it
[12:39] You: everyone can join this workgroup by enlisting with the chairs
[12:39] You: please do Arria
[12:40] Arria Perreault: I would like to repeat that I don't see this project as a personal project
[12:40] Naftali Torok: ok good to know
[12:40] Arria Perreault: if you need a proof, see the change of the proposal: we have taken in account all the inputs we got in the forums
[12:41] Arria Perreault: and if anyone will join this workgroup, he/she welcome
[12:41] Arria Perreault: if anyone will give input, he/she IM me or Ulysse or write in the Forum
[12:41] Naftali Torok: ok i will read the forum better, was away in rl last week
[12:41] Arria Perreault: we will work in a cosntructive way, in order to make a great sim for the CDS
[12:42] Delia Lake: i've been travelling in rl also
[12:42] Arria Perreault: I put my personel interest far from this project
[12:42] Arria Perreault: If I had such an interest, I would buy an opensim to any land owner do everything alone
[12:43] Arria Perreault: but it is not the case
[12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly hehe
[12:43] Arria Perreault: if you see the detail of the proposal, as Monastery curator, I will lose some independece
[12:44] Arria Perreault: because I will have to ask CDS for prims when I have a nw project
[12:44] Arria Perreault: but the Monastery will be more open to everyone
[12:44] Arria Perreault: please, don't tr to look any trick or personal interest behind this project
[12:45] Arria Perreault: I do t, because I like CDS
[12:45] Arria Perreault: do it*
[12:45] Delia Lake: i didn't mean to imply that, Arria it just wasn't clear how this was to operate from today's conversation. i'll catch up on the forum
[12:45] Arria Perreault: remember that I take the risk for CDS, despite the fact it isnormal project
[12:46] You: guys
[12:46] You: we have the ability and the possibility of doing yet another great sim for the CDS
[12:46] Arria Perreault: we are few, that is why we fall often on this problem of perosnal interest
[12:46] You: but of course, as Arria has pointes out, the process is iterative
[12:47] Arria Perreault: but I work for the interest of CDS
[12:47] You: so everyone interested in assisting with the process
[12:47] You: please help Arria and Ulysse
[12:47] You: please come to these meetings and help us discuss it
[12:47] You: ok?
[12:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[12:47] You: and now .... sadly...
[12:47] You: i will make a motion to adjourn
[12:48] Arria Perreault: dsecond
[12:48] You: since we are reaching almost two hours of debate
[12:48] You: all agreeing?
[12:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[12:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[12:48] Ulysse Alexandre: aye
[12:48] Naftali Torok: ok
[12:48] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:49] You: and aye as well
[12:49] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:49] You: and i am taking silence as consent!
[12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:49] You: we will proceed with the rest of the agenda on the next meeting
[12:49] Arria Perreault: thank you for the meeting:-)
[12:49] You: thank you everyone, very good meeting