[08:12] Vintage RCA meeting recorder: Recording begun
[08:13] Vintage RCA meeting recorder: Note: Meeting in progress - all local chat in this area may be recorded for publication
[08:13] Pip Torok: (weve started already? 
...)
[08:14] Callipygian Christensen: The recorder just sent out the following messages:[08:12] Vintage RCA meeting recorder: Recording begun
[08:13] Vintage RCA meeting recorder: Note: Meeting in progress - all local chat in this area may be recorded for publication
[08:14] Butterfli Summers: no pip, not yet
[08:14] Butterfli Summers: just getting to it
[08:14] Pip Torok: tks
[08:14] Butterfli Summers: yw
[08:14] Bells Semyorka: we are waiting for other SC memebers to arrive
[08:14] Callipygian Christensen: Lilith - please send a notice that we are beginning
[08:14] Lilith Ivory: ok
[08:15] Pip Torok: ah .. others that the RL-wind trying to impede ...
[08:16] Butterfli Summers votes there should be elevator music available
[08:16] Lilith Ivory: did anybody get the note?
[08:17] Lilith Ivory curses at SL
[08:17] Butterfli Summers: no
[08:17] Michel Manen: no
[08:17] Bells Semyorka: no lil not yet
[08:17] Spider22997 Upshaw: hey Rosie 
[08:17] Rosie Gray: hi everyone... much lag
[08:17] Butterfli Summers nods
[08:18] Lilith Ivory: I tried twice to send a note - maybe someone else can give it a try
[08:18] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arria
[08:18] Callipygian Christensen: Welcome Arria
[08:19] Arria (arria.perreault): Hi everybody. Sorry to be late
[08:20] Soro (soro.dagostino): Madame Dean . . .
[08:20] Lilith Ivory: thanks Calli
[08:20] Callipygian Christensen: Mine went through
[08:20] Spider22997 Upshaw: got it now
[08:20] Callipygian Christensen: Lets begin.
[08:20] Lilith Ivory: hope this will be the only problem I have for the next few hours
[08:20] Callipygian Christensen: yes Soro?
[08:20] Soro (soro.dagostino): Yeild.
[08:21] Callipygian Christensen: welcome everyone and thank you for attending.
[08:21] Callipygian Christensen: From my agenda notice: All citizens are welcome to attend and observe, however, it is important that these petitions be dealt with; any avatar causing unnecessary delay or disruption to the meeting will be asked to leave.
[08:21] Callipygian Christensen: A reminder to everyone. We are not here to opine or debate the addition of the Dougga region - the addition of the region is being conducted within the law. We are here to give decisions on the petitions before us, that relate to the timing of the addition of the region.
[08:22] Michel Manen: raises hand.
[08:23] Callipygian Christensen: In addition, I will point out that contrary to the wording of some recent discussions and inquiries, the SC does not 'permit' or 'deny' in such matters. The SC gives an interpretation of the laws. Those laws are what permit or deny.
[08:23] Callipygian Christensen: Michel-and quickly please - we have time constraints today.
[08:24] Michel Manen: Bromo and Ceasar and unable to attend because of RL work commitments and have asked me to represent the Chancellor and current sim owner. i would like to make representations at the appropriate time.
[08:24] Michel Manen: yes i will be short.
[08:25] Callipygian Christensen: If representations are needed, we will call on you.
[08:26] Michel Manen: thank you.
[08:26] Callipygian Christensen: I do not however have any indication from them in IM, notecard, or e-mail, that you can speak for them,
[08:27] Callipygian Christensen: So, to the agenda
[08:27] Callipygian Christensen: SC members, can we approve the agenda and proceed?
[08:27] Lilith Ivory: yes
[08:27] Soro (soro.dagostino): Move approval
[08:28] Callipygian Christensen: Arria?
[08:28] Arria (arria.perreault): yes
[08:28] Callipygian Christensen: Thank you
[08:29] Callipygian Christensen: Item 1 Request for injunction on transfer of Dougga - Mistwalker
[08:30] Callipygian Christensen: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5697
[08:30] Callipygian Christensen: (sorry..Chrome is not cooperating)
[08:31] Callipygian Christensen: The request and my comments can be found at that URL
[08:31] Callipygian Christensen: I will give people a moment to open it up if desired
[08:32] Callipygian Christensen: Each SC member will speak to this in turn.
[08:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises her hand !
[08:33] Callipygian Christensen: Arria, since you are also a member of this advisory committe, would you speak first please?
[08:33] Arria (arria.perreault): I can
[08:34] Arria (arria.perreault): I was even chair of the former BAC, which no longer exist
[08:35] Arria (arria.perreault): I consider that the fact to form an other commission because the BAC doesnt exist anymore is acceptable and respect the idea of the law.
[08:36] Arria (arria.perreault): This said, the whole process has to be respected as the law presents it.
[08:36] Arria (arria.perreault): For now, I am done. I will come later.
[08:36] Callipygian Christensen: thank you Arria.
[08:36] Callipygian Christensen: Lilith?
[08:38] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Arria the commision the chancellor formed to replace the BAC is acceptable but for me if looks like this Commision did not have a chance to get the input that was needed
[08:38] Lilith Ivory: lso I do see the problems with Dougga and the General masterplan
[08:38] Lilith Ivory: done for now
[08:39] Callipygian Christensen: thank you. Soro?
[08:39] Soro (soro.dagostino): Did the committee ever meet?
[08:39] Soro (soro.dagostino): Did it ever reach agreement on the issues?
[08:40] Soro (soro.dagostino): There is evidence that it did not.
[08:40] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand....
[08:41] Butterfli Summers raises hand
[08:41] Callipygian Christensen: Cleo,I saw your hand before, but at this point SC members have the floor.
[08:43] Callipygian Christensen: Soro..anything further?
[08:43] Soro (soro.dagostino): Not for now.
[08:43] Callipygian Christensen: thank you.
[08:44] Callipygian Christensen: As I indicate in the forum post, my cncern is that a committe was formed, has never met, and should have been given the task of reveiwing specific changes to the GMP infrstructure of the proposed region.
[08:45] Callipygian Christensen: Since the proposal for the region specifies that it follows the GMP, I do not think it appropriate to pick and choose which *parts* of the GMP to follow.
[08:46] Callipygian Christensen: Arria - you said we would come back to you..further comments?
[08:48] Arria (arria.perreault): I can add that the main tasks of the commission would have to inspect the design and the building of the sim, especially to see if it is conform to the Master Plan
[08:48] Arria (arria.perreault): This supposes some work and some time
[08:48] Arria (arria.perreault): and some meetings.
[08:49] Arria (arria.perreault): Individuals feedbacks are not sufficient in my point of view. The opinion of a commission is different than several opinions, because many points are discussed.
[08:50] Arria (arria.perreault): I think also that the law considers that the approval commission is a permanent commission, what was the BAC.
[08:51] Arria (arria.perreault): Done
[08:51] Callipygian Christensen: thank you. Lilith..aything further?
[08:51] Lilith Ivory: not at the moment while I agree with what the rest of you said
[08:52] Callipygian Christensen: Michel Manan has asked to speak on behalf of the Chancellor and developer. Before he does so we have two hands raised. Cleo - be brief and on topic.
[08:53] Michel Manen: thank you
[08:53] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i will wait til after michel...
[08:53] Callipygian Christensen: Butterfli?
[08:53] Michel Manen: Regarding the Chancellor’s actions on the Dougga issue, there are two issues to be addressed:
1. Is this method of enlargement legal and in accordance with current CDS laws?
2. Has the sim met the standards demanded by law?
[08:53] Callipygian Christensen: Michel - please wait
[08:53] Butterfli Summers: First, I apologize if this overlaps any suggested points brought today.
Personal opinions on the sim and it's completion aside, I would like to point out that in the quotes Gaius used from the law to form this petition, indicates that that Chancellor has the right to make this final decision without consulting the BAC "the Chancellor or the BAC" key word being "or" and because we ( I say we because I was asked to be on the advisory commitee) and what the committee members suggested is just that "advisory" only. If this meeting is to uphold the law, the law has not been broken therefore the meeting to inspect with the commitee would be nice but not required.
Now if there is a law regarding how a committee should be ran, and requirements from that committee then a seperate petition should be filed siting that law. Not the one in question today.
I would also like to say being a member of the committee, I personally went through the sim with the Chancellor and gave a long list of suggestions during the
[08:53] Butterfli Summers: process. Met several times with the builder and sim owner. But again, that goes back to is there a law that sites how a committee should be ran, and requirements in general on how they should perform.
[08:55] Butterfli Summers: done
[08:55] Callipygian Christensen: Thank you.
[08:55] Callipygian Christensen: Michel - and again, breif and on topic to the issues raised please.
[08:55] Michel Manen: Thank you. As i was saying..... 
[08:55] Michel Manen: Regarding the Chancellor’s actions on the Dougga issue, there are two issues to be addressed:
1. Is this method of enlargement legal and in accordance with current CDS laws?
2. Has the sim met the standards demanded by law?
[08:56] Michel Manen: As to the first question, the answer is clearly YES. The PDA was duly debated and adopted by the RA. It was not vetoed by the Chancellor. It was not contested by the SC within the timeframe allowed by law for such purpose. It therefore entered into force and remains valid CDS law.
[08:56] Michel Manen: Although the RA can amend or repeal the PDA by simple majority, it is not open to the SC to do so. This should conclude this matter.
[08:56] Michel Manen: As to the second issue: what does “completed” mean in this case? What are the standards?
[08:56] Michel Manen: There are traditionally 2 types of new sym construction standards in SL: the fully built sim, where citizens simply move in an entirely –pre-constructed sim with fully developed infrastructure, facilities, and residences; and the do-it-yourself sim, where infrastructure and common areas are developed, but each owner develops his or her own parcel. In CDS, we have had both these types of sim. In each case, the standard of “completed” has different implications.
[08:57] Michel Manen: THere are usually two types of new simms in SL
[08:57] Michel Manen: the fully built ones where resident move in totally new buildings
[08:57] Michel Manen: and the do it yourself ones
[08:58] Michel Manen: where only the infrastructure is ready and citzens move in to build their own homes
[08:58] Callipygian Christensen: Michel - we are not hearing 'is the sim legal or 'is the sim complete - we are dealing with a petition that asks if the DSAC has been allowed to perfom it's duties.
[08:58] Michel Manen: the meaning of completed is differnt in each.
[08:58] Michel Manen: i will address that in one moment
[08:58] Callipygian Christensen: Please address that issue.
[08:58] Michel Manen: But the connotation of the word remains the same. Does “completed” in each case mean “ready for citizens to move in”? Or does it mean “ work fully completed from an architectural point of view”? That is what we are here to determine.
[08:58] Michel Manen: What has been CDS practice in the past? Let us take a case where we have written evidence. The case of Colonia Nova: http://colonianova.wordpress.com/catego ... formation/
[08:59] Michel Manen: Here we had a sim of the first category. A fully built sim, including residences, which however could be modified by citizens once they moved in. What did “completed” signify in this case? Let us read the CDS blog of that time:
[08:59] Michel Manen: “Earlier this evening, Moon Adament, Chair of the Sim Planning Committee announced the official opening of the newest region of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, Colonia Nova. This project involved the dedication and effort of dozens of builders, planners, advisors, financiers, and other genuinely interested parties. Although not every build has been completed, the sim has been built enough to allow residents to start to move in and There are traditionally 2 types of new sym construction standards in SL: the fully built sim, where citizens simply move in an entirely –pre-constructed sim with fully developed infrastructure, facilities, and residences; and the do-it-yourself sim, where infrastructure and common areas are developed, but each owner develops his or her own parcel. In CDS, we have had both these types of sim. In each case, the standard of “completed” has different implications.
shape their new environment. Plans are underway for an opening celebration and details will be posted h
[08:59] Michel Manen: Please note that the text specifically mentions: “Although not every build has been completed, the sim has been built enough to allow residents to start to move in and shape their new environment.” This is clear evidence stating that, although the sim had not been “completed” architecturally to the standards of a built sim, it was “completed” “enough to allow residents to start to move in and shape their new environment”. That is the standard applied then, and therefore the CDS standard we should follow now.
[08:59] Shep (shep.titian): OMG
[08:59] Michel Manen: Therefore the question to be decided today by the SC is:
Given the fact that Dougga is a “do-it-yourself” type of sim, does it meet the stardard of completion of CDS defined appropriate to this type of sim where it can be said that it is “built enough to allow residents to start to move in and shape their new environment”?
[08:59] Callipygian Christensen: Michel - please address the issue before the SC at this moment. This is not the place for you to orate your views on other areas.
[08:59] Michel Manen: For any of those who have visited the sim, it is unambiguously clear that the answer is YES. I can comment more on this if necessary, but in interests of brevity I will conclude.
[08:59] Michel Manen: Therefore:
1. Because the PDA is valid CDS law; and
2. Because it meets the required standards of completion as required by legislation and custom;
The SC should lift its injunction and the EO should act without delay in accordance with the Chancellor’s instructions, as required by the CDS Constitution.
The role of the SC is not to review implementation of the project. It is purely to decide if the law is valid, and if the legally required standard has been met. If the answer is YES, the injunction should be lifted and the CEO should obey the Chancellor’s instructions.
If there are shortcomings in procedural issues which are not mandatory by law, these can be dealt with in time. But that is not for the SC to decide. Where it to do so, it would on its own vastly enlarge its own competencies, which would put it in an unacceptable conflict of interest.
I therefore submit that the law being valid and the only legally required standard having been met in accordance with CDS law and custom, the SC lift th
[09:00] Michel Manen: I therefore submit that the law being valid and the only legally required standard having been met in accordance with CDS law and custom, the SC lift the injunction forthwith and instruct the EO to comply with the CDS constitution by implementing the Chancellor’s valid instructions.
Thank you.
[09:01] Callipygian Christensen: I will give members of the SC and those attending a moment to read through and find the relevant information regarding the current petition.
[09:01] Lilith Ivory wonders if Michel answered Callis question somewhere in his speech
[09:01] Callipygian Christensen: In the mean time - Cleo - brief and on topic.
[09:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ok what i wanted to say about the BAC .. is i respect what arria says but
[09:01] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: at the end of the day
[09:02] Michel Manen: yes lilith i have:
If there are shortcomings in procedural issues which are not mandatory by law, these can be dealt with in time. But that is not for the SC to decide. Where it to do so, it would on its own vastly enlarge its own competencies, which would put it in an unacceptable conflict of interest.
I
[09:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the law had ZERO requirement for anything the BAC said to be implemented.. .. i agree totally with what Butterfli said.. regarding the bac .. it is irrelevant.. is what i think and you should have thrown out G''s case because of it
[09:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[09:03] Callipygian Christensen: Thank you.
[09:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[09:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: im sorry i wasnt done
[09:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the main thing is
[09:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: its not your place to even hear the case
[09:03] Callipygian Christensen: From the GMP regarding infrsastructure:
[09:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you have no place and are in violation of LAW hearing this
[09:04] Callipygian Christensen: D. INFRASTRUCTURES:
The GMP will define the MAIN INFRASTRUCTURES that guarantee ground or sea communication between sims. MAIN INFRASTRUCTURES are mandatory. They are designed by the Guild or subject to Guild approval.
[09:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: exactly and the guild is now the chancellor !
[09:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and he approved
[09:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: there is no guild in the law calli ! it was all sent to the chancellor and you know this .
[09:05] Callipygian Christensen: This is in part an answer t Butterfli's comments. The GMP does require approval of the infrastructure.
[09:05] Michel Manen: indeed. and they are competed as i explained
[09:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the approveal is now by the chancellor since there is no guild
[09:05] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and he approved it
[09:06] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you cannot just usurp law calli ! r
[09:06] Callipygian Christensen: So perhaps the question to be asked is ' in the absence of the Guild, does the chancellor have the right to change the GMP'
[09:06] Butterfli Summers raises hand
[09:06] Callipygian Christensen: Cleo - this is not a town hall meeting. Stop.
[09:07] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[09:07] Michel Manen: as i was mandated by the Chancelor and the sim owner to make representations, i simply want to clarify that the Chancekllor has complied in full with the law. if there are questions about the technical implementation that is totally justified and can be dealt with in due course
[09:07] Callipygian Christensen: Do any of the members of the SC have comments or opinions?
[09:07] Michel Manen: but that is not why we are here today and what th role of the SC is
[09:08] Arria (arria.perreault): I want to make a citation of the law :
[09:08] Arria (arria.perreault): Further, the Chancellor shall facilitate and coordinate this process, and shall consult with the Building Approval Committee (BAC) of the New Guild when doing so. However, the BAC shall be advisory only, and that Chancellor shall have ultimate authority on matters relating to the implementation of this Act.
[09:08] Bagheera Kristan is Online
[09:09] Arria (arria.perreault): I think that the Chancellor has to consult the commission, but can consider its opinion as advices only.
[09:09] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Arria
[09:09] Michel Manen: where the SC to add to its competencies by deciding it can suspend a law becuse it has the powers to decide on technical implementations standards it would be an unacceptable enlargement of its own powers , which would place it in a conflcit of interest and be unconstitutional and against which there would be no appeal at all.
[09:09] Callipygian Christensen: Michel..the same comment that I gave to Cleo..this is not a town hall meeting. Stop.
[09:10] Michel Manen: that would serioulsy put in question th very natur of CDS as a democracy and the very reason why so many of us are here. thanks.
[09:11] Callipygian Christensen: Anything further Arris?
[09:11] Arria (arria.perreault): I think that the idea of the BAC or any other permanent commission is double :
[09:11] Callipygian Christensen: *Arria
[09:12] Arria (arria.perreault): expansion is a matter that concerns the whole community of CDS.
[09:12] Butterfli Summers raises hand
[09:12] Pat (patroklus.murakami) is Online
[09:13] Arria (arria.perreault): Allowing a commission of citizen to participate to the process is important for this reason. It gives also transparency to the whole process.
[09:14] Arria (arria.perreault): The commission is mandatory, although the Chancellor can decide alone at the end. The idea of this injonction is not to stop the process, but to give the time to this commission to make its work.
[09:14] Arria (arria.perreault): Done
[09:15] Callipygian Christensen: ANything further Lilith?
[09:16] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[09:16] Lilith Ivory: the other important question still is: Does the new Region follow the GM as it was proposed? and If not has the chancellor the right to change the GM or is this a decission the RA has to aprove
[09:16] Lilith Ivory: done
[09:16] Callipygian Christensen: Soro..anything further?
[09:17] Soro (soro.dagostino): I agree with Arria.
[09:17] CLEOPATRA Xigalia raises hand
[09:17] Callipygian Christensen: Thank you.
[09:17] Soro (soro.dagostino): I do not believe that the SC is acting out of its realm.
[09:17] Callipygian Christensen: Butterfli, as a member of this commission, go ahead
[09:18] Callipygian Christensen: oops..miskey..after Soro please
[09:18] Soro (soro.dagostino): done
[09:18] Callipygian Christensen: thank you Soro..Butterfli?
[09:18] Butterfli Summers: Unfortunately, (regarding Lilith and Cali's question) that is not the question brought to you from Gaius in the form of this petition, therefore should not be addressed today. And Michael we are not here to argue the nature of CDS being a democracy either. If we start questioning where the law breaks down we won't get through these petitions. And the Chancellor did consult with the committee individually, so again "according to this petition" and how it was sited no law has been broken and we were advisory only. Unless a law exists in regards to how the committee should be ran and regulated was sited by Gaius, then there would be grounds to allow an injunction to meet as a committee but its not required at this time that I can find anywhere. If the SC should have questions about the chancellor then it should be addressed in another hearing ?
[09:20] Butterfli Summers: sorry, done
[09:20] Callipygian Christensen: Anything further Butterfli?
[09:20] Callipygian Christensen: thank you
[09:20] Arria (arria.perreault) raises hands
[09:20] Callipygian Christensen: Celo - on topic, brief, and not just a repeat of pervious comments please.
[09:20] Michel Manen: grins
[09:21] Callipygian Christensen: *Cleo
[09:21] Michel Manen: freudian i;m sure
[09:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: may ifrist ask a question
[09:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: though i think the SC cannot even rule in this case
[09:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it is nice to knwo that the chancellor did listen to the input of the back
[09:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: as evidenced by several things that G asked for that got put in
[09:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: as well as the fact there was at least one public meeting of citizens
[09:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and a survey that went out to the citjizens
[09:22] Callipygian Christensen: Cleo - get to the point please - or we will not get to all of thes petitions today.
[09:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but nonetheless, it is not for the SC to rule on this.. the case G botught it is to stall and gerrymander the voting list for the 12th
[09:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[09:22] Rosie Gray raises a hand
[09:22] Callipygian Christensen: Arria?
[09:22] Arria (arria.perreault): The fact that the commission should be an ad hoc commission is also and important. The former BAC was also formed independently .
[09:23] Arria (arria.perreault): Citation : The New Guild shall develop an advisory committee called the Building Approval Committee to assist the Chancellor in inspection and approval of privately built CDS sims.
[09:23] Arria (arria.perreault): We have an ad hoc commission now whose members were choosen by the Chancellor.
[09:24] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and the law says that all new guild things are to go to the chancellor, we have no new guild
[09:26] Arria (arria.perreault): The only effect of the injonction is to let this commission working, not to stop the whole process.
[09:26] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington) raises hand
[09:26] Arria (arria.perreault): THis is important to remind.
[09:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: nods arria
[09:27] Arria (arria.perreault): And after the work of this commission, the Chancellor will still be free not to follow its opinion.
[09:27] Michel Manen: that is not within the competencies of the SC arria.
[09:28] Soro (soro.dagostino): Objection
[09:28] Soro (soro.dagostino): That's your opinion sir.,
[09:28] Soro (soro.dagostino): Not mine.
[09:28] Butterfli Summers scrolls up where she pointed out to the SC the commission did do work, many hours and a few weeks of work.
[09:29] Callipygian Christensen: Arria has the floor
[09:29] Michel Manen: and if it enleages its powers on its own to such an extent, fuly knowing there is not appeal against this decision, then that raises serious constitutional issues because of the conflict of itnterest the SC puts itself in without any check in its own power to do so
[09:29] Callipygian Christensen: All of you, please.
[09:29] Arria (arria.perreault): I am done. I want to hear Soro.
[09:29] Callipygian Christensen: Soro?
[09:29] Soro (soro.dagostino): I am done.
[09:29] Spider22997 Upshaw: your out of order michel
[09:29] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): (retracts raised hand)
[09:29] Rosie Gray also retracts raised hand
[09:30] Callipygian Christensen: Soro..did you have further observations to mmake?
[09:30] Bells Semyorka wonders if that is an omission for pushing so hard to get the new sim from cleo.
[09:30] Soro (soro.dagostino): I agree the committee failed in its assigned task.
[09:30] Euterpe Zagoskin is Offline
[09:31] Butterfli Summers raises hand!
[09:31] Michel Manen: it is not the SC's role to rule on that. by doing so it is enlarging its own competencies to an unacceptable extent and with no appeal available.
[09:31] Spider22997 Upshaw: your out of order michel
[09:32] Callipygian Christensen: Michel..again..please stop the commentary.
[09:32] Arria (arria.perreault): I think we should move to a vote now. I move that we vote the injunction and ask this commission to meet and give an opinion to the Chancellor. in a fair time
[09:32] Soro (soro.dagostino): Second
[09:32] Callipygian Christensen: With a motion on the floor I open final discussion and will go first.
[09:35] Callipygian Christensen: Once again the SC is tasked with intepreting outdated and contradictory laws. While I personally have grave concerns about the Chancellor's decision to amend the GMP without any discussion or conslutation, the fact that there is no updated method to address the GMP, in the absence of the Guild, appears to give him that right.
[09:37] Callipygian Christensen: Since all references to the BAC reference the Chancellor having the final decision, again, while the purpose of a commission would seem to be to meet and give a joint input, the Chancellor has chosen to follow the letter of the law, if not the spirit of the original.
[09:37] Callipygian Christensen: Done.
[09:37] Arria (arria.perreault) raises hand
[09:37] Callipygian Christensen: Any further discussion from SC members?
[09:37] Callipygian Christensen: Arris?
[09:37] Callipygian Christensen: again! *Arria
[09:37] Arria (arria.perreault): Citation : The New Guild shall also create, update and maintain a CDS master plan under which future expansions in land area and themes shall occur. This plan shall be submitted to and approved by the RA, and shall be resubmitted to the RA for approval whenever it is modified.
[09:38] Arria (arria.perreault): Any modification of the Master Plan has to be approved by the RA.
[09:38] Arria (arria.perreault): It is in the same law
[09:39] Arria (arria.perreault): Done
[09:39] Callipygian Christensen: thank you Arria. Lilith, Soro?
[09:39] Arria (arria.perreault): I have to leave in few minutes ... sorry but I really have to go for RL reasons
[09:40] Soro (soro.dagostino): I concur with the motion.
[09:40] Callipygian Christensen: Yes Arria..I indicated in the announcement of the meeting that there was a 10 AM SLT dealine
[09:40] Soro (soro.dagostino): Call the question
[09:40] Callipygian Christensen: Lilith?
[09:41] Lilith Ivory: I think the las clearly says SHALL consult with the BAC or in this case with the commission the Chancellor formed himself
[09:41] Lilith Ivory: done
[09:41] Butterfli Summers: /raises hand!
[09:42] Michel Manen: I fully agree with Callis comments and think that she has corectly outlined and summarised the issues and conclusions.
[09:42] Callipygian Christensen: all members having been heard
[09:43] Callipygian Christensen: I call a vote on the motion: I move that we vote the injunction and ask this commission to meet and give an opinion to the Chancellor. in a fair time
[09:43] Butterfli Summers: No, we did not fail as a committee I disagree with that statement, we advised on MANY things that did not come into fruition not because we failed, because of the disgression (sp) of the builder, owner and chancellor...please do not say that we failed on our task. I know I personally put in hour after hour of work. Did we formally meet, no, did we walk through with the chancellor so WE MET!!, yes ...whom was online at the time to do the initial walkthrough. Even the SC is missing one member and has one leaving...so to say we failed is NOT at all truth. And should not even be a question because there is no laws regarding how a committee should be ran and what is required as participation.
[09:43] Callipygian Christensen: please cast your vote with a short rationale for that vote.
[09:44] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: . it has a harbor !
[09:45] Callipygian Christensen: Butterfli - the opinion of one SC member is just that, one opinion, success or failure of the commission is not in question
[09:45] Arria (arria.perreault): I maintain that the Commission must be consulted (as a group), even the Chancellor doesn't to follow its opinion. So I vote aye.
[09:45] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Arria and vote aye too
[09:45] Soro (soro.dagostino): I agree with Arria, I vote aye.
[09:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the definintion o f met ! LOL
[09:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: they met
[09:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: lol
[09:47] Arria (arria.perreault): I have to leave now. Sorry.
[09:47] Michel Manen: if th SC does not lift the injunction because it disagrees on th technical interpretation of the consultation requirements it is totally out of order constitutionally with no appeal agiainst it.
[09:48] Spider22997 Upshaw: your out of order
[09:48] Callipygian Christensen: Because the DSAC is advisory,and the Chancellor has been advised, no matter that it is not in the form usually followed by commissions, I vote nay
[09:48] Michel Manen: thank you.
[09:48] Widget Whiteberry sits quietly and pays attention to the SC
[09:48] Rosie Gray thinks that Michel should keep his opinions to himself until the appropriate time to express them.
[09:48] Callipygian Christensen: 3 ayes, 1 nay - the motion carries.
[09:49] Pip Torok agrees with Rosie
[09:49] Spider22997 Upshaw: agrees with Rosie
[09:49] Soro (soro.dagostino) raises hand.
[09:49] Callipygian Christensen: That leads to another motion. There must be a timeframe on an injunction.
[09:50] Callipygian Christensen: The developer has identified Oct 20th as a deadline , and his concerns should not be ignored due to disputes of law.
[09:51] Lilith Ivory: I agree
[09:52] Callipygian Christensen: I move that this injunction be for 7 days.
[09:52] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: gerrymandering by the SC
[09:52] Lilith Ivory: I think it would be in the interest of this commission to meet as soon as possible and agree
[09:52] Spider22997 Upshaw: your out of order
[09:52] Callipygian Christensen: This allows the DSAC to meet, and act.
[09:52] Soro (soro.dagostino): I agree.
[09:52] Callipygian Christensen: A second?
[09:52] Lilith Ivory: I second
[09:53] Soro (soro.dagostino): We all agreed.
[09:53] Callipygian Christensen: any further discussion?
[09:53] Lilith Ivory: not from me
[09:53] Soro (soro.dagostino): no
[09:53] Callipygian Christensen: Please cast your vote, aye or nay
[09:53] Soro (soro.dagostino): Aye
[09:53] Lilith Ivory: aye
[09:53] Callipygian Christensen: aye
[09:53] Callipygian Christensen: 3 ayes - motion carries
[09:54] Soro (soro.dagostino): Move all other matters on the agenda be adjourned until that meeting of the SC.
[09:54] Callipygian Christensen: I will notify the Chancellor and the members of the DSAC and the EO of this injunction.
[09:55] Lilith Ivory: I´d second that as I have to leave soon too
[09:55] Callipygian Christensen: Time is now an issue - point 2 on the agenda becomes somewhat moot - I would suggest that members of the SC post their discussion and opinions in the SC Discussion forum regarding item 2
[09:56] Callipygian Christensen: Do members of the SC agree to do so?
[09:56] Lilith Ivory: yes
[09:56] Soro (soro.dagostino): yes
[09:56] Callipygian Christensen: thank you
[09:57] Callipygian Christensen: item 3 & 4 require more time than is possible today - again I would suggest posting opinions on the discussion thread, and that those items move to the next meeting
[09:57] Soro (soro.dagostino): That is my motion.
[09:57] Callipygian Christensen: yes Soro..Lilth.do you second?
[09:58] Lilith Ivory: I second
[09:58] Soro (soro.dagostino): Call the question
[09:58] Callipygian Christensen: cast your votes aye or nay
[09:58] Soro (soro.dagostino): aye
[09:58] Lilith Ivory: aye
[09:58] Callipygian Christensen: aye
[09:58] Callipygian Christensen: motion carries
[09:58] Callipygian Christensen: Due to the timeframes, I will attemtp to arrange a meeting of the SC within the next 10 days to address these.
[09:58] CLEOPATRA Xigalia have a question
[09:59] Butterfli Summers: im not even going to in town and if they meet and suggest anything; if the chancellor still thinks its complete its a null point...and a complete waste of time in my opinion...we've suggested the same things we will suggest again in the meeting, a whole 7 days for the same outcome
[09:59] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: G has the ability now to stop the sim by not going to the meeting, so does arria and gywn is never around... they dont have to meet at one time ...
[09:59] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: this is a joke calli
[09:59] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: they have given input ... they met
[10:00] Vic Mornington (victor1st.mornington): well... that was fun
[10:00] Callipygian Christensen: With no further business - may we adjourn?
[10:00] Pat (patroklus.murakami): well chaired calli. despite the noises off and interruptions!
[10:00] Callipygian Christensen: Liltih..Soro?
[10:00] Lilith Ivory: yes
[10:01] Soro (soro.dagostino): Yes
[10:01] Pip Torok: agree strongly, Pat
[10:01] Butterfli Summers: oh sorry i thought it was already over
[10:01] Callipygian Christensen: we are adjourned