Building by democracy?

Forum for the CDS Artisan Guild

Moderator: SC Moderators

User avatar
Rosie Gray
Forum Wizard
Forum Wizard
Posts: 1809
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:47 am
Location: west-coast Canada

Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Rosie Gray »

Lam Erin wrote:Sorry Rosie for my intervention but your criticism has been unfair....If I wanted to blame someone (I dont want to do it but I will make an attempt as the post above is about allocating blame and guilt) I would say that you are equally responsible for the mess LA is in.

It was clear from the beggining that you and the Chancellor had two different plans for the development of LA...That's fair enough as people are entitled to have different opinions and ideas about a commnity development....And everybody in my opinion had the right to contribute to a community project...

That's what democracy requires..

So there were two competing plans. On the face of it RA suggested that you and the chancellor meet to find a compromised plan or find a mutually acceptable solution..
This never happened..The case ended up as expected in those situations: Baggheera's plan or yours..Black or white...
No compromises no genuine discussions nothing. The whole LA and CDS has been dragged for months (if not years) by the inablity of the cds "officials" to reach a settlement for the common good...
Personal "egos" prevailed to a level that it is impossible to even suggest minor changes to builds or the plan...

The inability of the cds "officials" to behave responsibly infected alsoo other citizens including builders...

Nobody wants to listen, nobody wants to accept suggestions...

I am sorry but this is not democracy, LA project is not a collaborative community project...It is a personal project of individuals who are dragging the rest of cds into their personal conflicts..
I am sorry i am using this language but I am completely disappointed from the inability of mature persons to find solutions...

P.S. I personally make many changes to my builds designs and everything else I make...If someone tells me they dont like what I do I listen to them and usually make changes..
That is part of listening to others especially collaborators...Unfortunately this is missing in cds..
Lam you are entitled to your opinion, and I don't blame you for thinking this way. All I can say is that I honestly did try my best to work with Bagheera. Tried and failed; I'm sorry. :(
"Courage, my friend, it's not too late to make the world a better place."
~ Tommy Douglas

AbbyRose
Veteran debater
Veteran debater
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:38 pm

Re: Building by democracy?

Post by AbbyRose »

Cadence Theas wrote:Thank you for clarifying the property question, Rosie. I have NEVER owned property in LA. I built two houses for two people, Mikelo's, which fits into the rural Tuscan theme, and Covey and Imper's house on the beach, which is not as Tuscan, but which maybe can just pass. I have only owned property in Alpine Meadow, years ago, and more currently in NSF. I think Bags starts losing credibility in her accusations when she starts misrepresenting the truth. If lying to win points is protecting, then I clearly operate with a different ethical standard.

My concern is the whole philosophy of governance that is operating now. Bags inherited by default a fractured community. One would think that her first order of business would be to try to heal that community with events, conversations, encounters--things that a true leadership would consider essential activities. Once the community is healed then it is ready to face more contentious issues. That is not what happened. She entered with a hammer in her hand and tried to conform us to her vision of a community. That works if you are chancellor for life, but doesn't work in a position that you may have for six months or a year after which you have to return to that community as an ordinary citizen observing the healing, or the chaos that you have wrought. A true democracy is a consultative process, not a question of "well, they elected me, so now they have to do what I say".

If 4 people represents the will of the people and can cause the deletion of a structure, what happens when more than four begin to decry the damage that is being done to LA? I know that people are tired of it being an issue, and that it was dragged all over the political spectrum and severely misrepresented by its detractors, but is the alternative much better? At this point, it almost makes more sense to delete the sim or turn it into an ocean for local sailing, let healing time pass, and then reconsider what we want and do so in a democratic and adult manner.
This is the part of the quote I'd like to point out:
I know that people are tired of it being an issue, and that it was dragged all over the political spectrum and severely misrepresented by its detractors, but is the alternative much better? At this point, it almost makes more sense to delete the sim or turn it into an ocean for local sailing, let healing time pass, and then reconsider what we want and do so in a democratic and adult manner.
Cadence also says: I have NEVER owned property in LA.

I do own parcels in LA. I own four parcels there. I, Molly, Tandra, Nic and I moved there and were perfectly content in the way it was. We knew
there were going to be changes. We agreed. The only thing that we asked is that we did not lose our property that we pay for, or were allowed property with a similar location, ie on water etc.

What is it with LA that people who do not live there want to get rid of it? We pay tiers. The sim is fine. It is no longer a burden to CDS. Why do people that don't even want it part of CDS, or have land here, fight with those that do, and with those that are trying to make it beautiful? I sincerely don't understand this. Could it be as Lam said, egos?

Speaking of egos, Victor, you can not take constructive criticism. The bridge you built was similar to a r/l Tuscan bridge in form. However, the
textures on it were not like the original, which has windows and is worn. You had a pinkish orange brick on yours, no windows, and was not worn.
That is the truth if you look at the pic of the original and the one you built. So instead of throwing a "fit", why not work with the Chancellor and make modifications? You can build, but you certainly have not shown that you are a "team player or a good neighbor".

Can we all please allow Bagheera and whoever DOES want to rebuild LA get on with it. Everyone can fight over the next sim if they want, but please finish this one so at least those of us living there can have some peace.
Do Good. Be good. Try to be happy.

AbbyRose
Veteran debater
Veteran debater
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:38 pm

Re: Building by democracy?

Post by AbbyRose »

As far as Bagheera......Molly and I watch her working her ass off on the sim. Who else has put that much effort into it?
~Cheers~ to Bagheera
Do Good. Be good. Try to be happy.

User avatar
Cadence Theas
I need a hobby
I need a hobby
Posts: 641
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:50 am

Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Cadence Theas »

AbbyRose,

I can appreciate your anxiousness to see LA finished, as I think all of us also feel. My reference to deleting the sim or turn it into an ocean while tempers cooled was a tongue in cheek form of humor that unfortunately you misunderstood. LA has the potential to be the prettiest sim in CDS.

I don't know if you have observed how frequently property changes hands here, but it is fairly certain that many of the members of CDS have owned property in two or more sims during their residence here including LA. The fact that I have not owned property in LA does not mean that 4 months or two years from now I might not decide to move there. Also LA is not an independent sim, thematically, politically and socially it is part of the greater CDS group and and the fact that it borders two other sims directly and one diagonally means that at some point there has to be the consideration of LA as a space that flows between sims, roads connect, fields move one into the other, and citizens of CDS walk freely between them, only noticing the sim change for the brief lag and the titles on the top of the screen.

It is this integrality of LA with the rest of CDS that suggests that decisions about LA are not just in the hands of the current residents, nor should it be just in the hands of the current administration because it is quite possible that in one year, all of the actors, residents and officials, are different people but living with a decision over which they had no say. LA decisions obviously should give priority to the immediate residents, but all of CDS should be able to have input. This has not been the case, and the result is is that neither the current residents of LA nor the rest of CDS can benefit from a warm climate sim, with beach front and harbor. This is also a long story, and not just the last two or three months. If you ask people, there is a lot of finger-pointing, but ultimately, it is the lack of a democratic voice, a CDS-wide and LA-centered approach to resolving LA that is the obstacle. This isn't imputable to any one figure, but it is more the system that doesn't clarify jurisdictions or allow popular participatory mechanisms--only the forum does that and you have seen what happens when gossip and rumor is presented as unverifiable fact.

User avatar
Pip Torok
Pundit
Pundit
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:52 am

Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Pip Torok »

AbbyRose wrote:As far as Bagheera......Molly and I watch her working her ass off on the sim. Who else has put that much effort into it?
~Cheers~ to Bagheera
.
.
Quite so, Abby.

What I'd like to see is Bags doing the usual things that Chancellors do do, but learning valuable lessons in the process, such as organisation, liaison, diplomacy, forbearance ... all the things our schools never teach us. I'd like to see Vic being once again able to make a generous move without getting back what he sees as churlish reactions. I'd like to see that particular bridge back again, and maybe that automobile with which Vic treated me to a ride over the bridge and back (Thanks, Vic!). In fact, I'd like so many things ... a completed LA, creatively-unhappy builders looking to the next sim that's only a gleam in our eye as yet ...

But down to second-earth with a bump ...

<sigh>

By the way, I take back forbearance. In my opinion, Bags already has that, in spades.


Pip Torok

Lam Erin
Casual contributor
Casual contributor
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:00 am

Re: Building by democracy?

Post by Lam Erin »

All persons involved in a collaborative project have to listen to each other Pip. Not only the chancellor. Collaboration means exactly that.
Talking to each other, making suggestions working out mutually acceptable solutions..

And we have to be ready to accept that our project/build/plan may not be favoured by others. Again, discussion could help resolve this without making people, including the builder, feel uncomfortable.
"To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often". Winston Churchill

Post Reply

Return to “CDS Artisan Guild”