Board Meeting August 23, 2011 Transcription

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Rosie Gray
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Board Meeting August 23, 2011 Transcription

Post by Rosie Gray »

Part 1 of the transcription:
[2011/08/23 08:33] Rosie Gray: everyone has the agenda?
[2011/08/23 08:34] josjoha: aye
[2011/08/23 08:34] Mizou Vavoom: yes thkx
[2011/08/23 08:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: I believe so.
[2011/08/23 08:34] Trebor Warcliffe: yes thank you
[2011/08/23 08:34] Pip Torok: yes
[2011/08/23 08:34] Sonja Strom: I have my own agenda (just kidding)
[2011/08/23 08:34] Second Life: Arria Perreault is online.
[2011/08/23 08:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me snickers
[2011/08/23 08:34] Rosie Gray: okay great, thanks for coming everyone
[2011/08/23 08:35] Rosie Gray: now, before we begin, I want to just set a few groundrules for the meeting
[2011/08/23 08:35] Rosie Gray: a. Raise hand and wait until you are recognized by the chair before speaking
[2011/08/23 08:35] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Arria Perreault (7m)
[2011/08/23 08:35] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Arria Perreault (7m)
[2011/08/23 08:35] Rosie Gray: b. Say “done” when you are finished
[2011/08/23 08:35] Sonja Strom: hi Arria
[2011/08/23 08:35] Ulysse Alexandre: hello Arria, welcome
[2011/08/23 08:35] Rosie Gray: hi Arria
[2011/08/23 08:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: Hello, Arria.
[2011/08/23 08:35] Arria Perreault: Hi SOnja
[2011/08/23 08:35] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[2011/08/23 08:36] Rosie Gray: c. Be as brief and concise as possible
[2011/08/23 08:36] Rosie Gray: and lastly, d. Absolutely no swearing or insults will be tolerated. If the meeting turns into a mudslinging contest I will adjorn the meeting.
[2011/08/23 08:36] Rosie Gray: I apologize for feeling the need to say that
[2011/08/23 08:36] Trebor Warcliffe: Not a problem
[2011/08/23 08:37] Rosie Gray: will you have a seat Arria?
[2011/08/23 08:37] Mizou Vavoom: Fine, but how do we raise a hand?
[2011/08/23 08:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: "/me raises hand"
[2011/08/23 08:37] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:37] Rosie Gray: oh you just say:
[2011/08/23 08:37] Rosie Gray: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:37] Rosie Gray: yes like that
[2011/08/23 08:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me giggles
[2011/08/23 08:37] Mizou Vavoom: Mizou raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:37] Trebor Warcliffe: I havent found that one on my gesture tab yet
[2011/08/23 08:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Precisely ㋡
[2011/08/23 08:38] Rosie Gray: yes Mizou? or are youjust testing
[2011/08/23 08:38] Mizou Vavoom: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:38] Mizou Vavoom: yes working thkx
[2011/08/23 08:38] Rosie Gray: lol
[2011/08/23 08:38] Rosie Gray: okay
[2011/08/23 08:38] Rosie Gray: so we can start then
[2011/08/23 08:38] Rosie Gray: for the record, I don't have a special recording device
[2011/08/23 08:38] Rosie Gray: so it will just be chat recorded
[2011/08/23 08:38] Rosie Gray: in the usual way
[2011/08/23 08:39] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me nods in consent.
[2011/08/23 08:39] Pip Torok: i consent to be recorded!
[2011/08/23 08:39] Arria Perreault: I consent to be recorded
[2011/08/23 08:39] Trebor Warcliffe: consent
[2011/08/23 08:39] josjoha: aye
[2011/08/23 08:39] Ulysse Alexandre: I consent
[2011/08/23 08:39] Mizou Vavoom: aye
[2011/08/23 08:39] Rain Ninetails: /me consents to recording
[2011/08/23 08:40] Sudane Erato: it has been customary to understand that simply by attendance at the mtg one consents
[2011/08/23 08:40] Rosie Gray: yes that's what I thought
[2011/08/23 08:40] Sudane Erato: there had been a sign
[2011/08/23 08:40] Rosie Gray: there is a big sign there
[2011/08/23 08:40] Rosie Gray: anyway...
[2011/08/23 08:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: There's a large sign behind me.
[2011/08/23 08:40] Sudane Erato: oh... yes! :)
[2011/08/23 08:40] Pip Torok: (so there is ... sorry)
[2011/08/23 08:40] Sonja Strom: I consent
[2011/08/23 08:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha.
[2011/08/23 08:40] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2011/08/23 08:40] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: hehe :) i consent
[2011/08/23 08:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: Well, seems like we all cosent, otherwise.
[2011/08/23 08:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: Consent, even.
[2011/08/23 08:41] Rosie Gray: okay that's fine
[2011/08/23 08:41] Rosie Gray: now, onto item one
[2011/08/23 08:42] Rosie Gray: here is the link:
[2011/08/23 08:42] Rosie Gray: Mission of the Guild is item 2 on that page
[2011/08/23 08:42] Rosie Gray: 1.To organize, plan, and execute the construction of new high-quality content including the development of territory and sims, build sim infrastructure and public buildings. To execute work contracted by the CDS to its specifications consistent with the legislation, master plan, and other regulations of the CDS.To also cooperate in projects with other entities.
[2011/08/23 08:42] Rosie Gray: first part of the Mission states the above
[2011/08/23 08:43] Rosie Gray: 2.To provide continuing hands-on education in the creation of content, as well in related areas. This education shall be free to all citizens, and may be made available to non-citizens willing to pay tuition.
[2011/08/23 08:43] Rosie Gray: 3.To provide certification in content-creation skills to the CDS Citizens.
[2011/08/23 08:43] Rosie Gray: 4.To provide technical advice and services to the office of the Chancellor and the RA as needed to plan, maintain and develop the CDS regions.
[2011/08/23 08:43] Rosie Gray: 5.To acquire and manage resources needed by New Guild volunteers for building and design such as sandbox areas and prim banks. To set rules for the use of these resources.
[2011/08/23 08:44] Trebor Warcliffe: A very ambitious mission indeed.
[2011/08/23 08:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: Rather, yes.
[2011/08/23 08:44] Rosie Gray: Can we have some discussion around this Mission statement? I am thinking that it is rather too ambitious for the number of volunteers we have
[2011/08/23 08:44] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:44] josjoha: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:44] Sudane Erato: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:45] Mizou Vavoom: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:45] Rosie Gray: yes CLEO?
[2011/08/23 08:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me raises hand.
[2011/08/23 08:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: maybe you should ask for more volunteers.
[2011/08/23 08:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: first
[2011/08/23 08:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[2011/08/23 08:45] Arria Perreault: /me raisoes hands
[2011/08/23 08:45] Rosie Gray: Jos next
[2011/08/23 08:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no response?
[2011/08/23 08:45] josjoha: Since the NG has no competition, and gets jobs by law and such from
[2011/08/23 08:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:46] josjoha: theCDS Government, it seems that the NG has the role of a Gov department ?
[2011/08/23 08:46] josjoha: Just an observation, since I heard the NG si supposed to be "private non-gov". done
[2011/08/23 08:46] Rosie Gray: it is not a gov't department though Jos
[2011/08/23 08:46] Rosie Gray: but your observation is noted
[2011/08/23 08:47] Rosie Gray: Sudane?
[2011/08/23 08:47] Sudane Erato: i feel strongly that the statement should not me modified
[2011/08/23 08:47] Sudane Erato: i think that we will not necessarily do everythinbg
[2011/08/23 08:48] Sudane Erato: but having it include more than we can do enables future citizens to go in new directions
[2011/08/23 08:48] Sudane Erato: done
[2011/08/23 08:48] Rosie Gray: that's a good point Sudane, thanks
[2011/08/23 08:48] Rosie Gray: Mizou next
[2011/08/23 08:48] Trebor Warcliffe: agrees
[2011/08/23 08:48] Mizou Vavoom: i agree with Sudane
[2011/08/23 08:48] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: agrees
[2011/08/23 08:48] Mizou Vavoom: The sandbox , would be a good thing to implement soon
[2011/08/23 08:49] josjoha: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:49] Rosie Gray: are you finished Mizou?
[2011/08/23 08:49] Mizou Vavoom: yes
[2011/08/23 08:49] Mizou Vavoom: done
[2011/08/23 08:50] Rosie Gray: okay... well that is another topic I think ㋡
[2011/08/23 08:50] Arria Perreault: me/ has raised hand
[2011/08/23 08:50] Rosie Gray: Arria is next
[2011/08/23 08:50] Arria Perreault: thx
[2011/08/23 08:50] Arria Perreault: I will talk as former Chair of Faculty about this point
[2011/08/23 08:51] Arria Perreault: The Faculty is in charge of all education activities of the NG
[2011/08/23 08:52] Arria Perreault: and also for building approvement
[2011/08/23 08:52] Arria Perreault: despite the fact we have tried to make some activities in the domain of education, it was not very succesfull
[2011/08/23 08:52] Rosie Gray: Arria, we are talking about the Mission statement right now
[2011/08/23 08:52] Arria Perreault: I know
[2011/08/23 08:53] Rosie Gray: please keep to the topic
[2011/08/23 08:53] Arria Perreault: I just question the education mission of the new Guild
[2011/08/23 08:53] Rosie Gray: ah okay
[2011/08/23 08:53] Arria Perreault: should we keep it?
[2011/08/23 08:53] Pip Torok: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:54] Arria Perreault: I think the certification and approval activities are important
[2011/08/23 08:54] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:54] Arria Perreault: in education, we have a lot of competition outside SL and CDS is too small as audience
[2011/08/23 08:54] Arria Perreault: done
[2011/08/23 08:54] Mizou Vavoom: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:54] Rosie Gray: Guillaume is next
[2011/08/23 08:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: I believe it would be right to comment, Mme Secretary, as to how certain parts have never have been or have recently not been implemented. I believe that it would make most sense, Mme Secretary, to rule out certain areas of that mission and focus this organisation's mission on what is required most of it until we have more willing and viable volunteers to this organisation: build, re-build and keep the CDS a constant high-quality group of sims. I must note, too, that Jos is right in his noting that his organisation has governmental responsibilities -- something that should be developed, I think, in the simplification of this organisation. I am sure it would certainly be benefitial to the CDS as a whole to do such. The broad characteristics of the mission certainly make the task of the NG frightening, perhaps detering interested volunteers -- such as myself, even recently. I believe it would make sense to object the education mission -- esp. due to the classrooms. Done; pardon for the length.
[2011/08/23 08:55] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[2011/08/23 08:55] Rosie Gray: thanks Guillaume, so that is two people questioning the educational aspects of the Mission
[2011/08/23 08:56] Rosie Gray: Cleo is next
[2011/08/23 08:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: perhaps i was too succinct , but is there a volunteer coordinator? because in my observation not enough has been done to recruit volunteers.. and that would allow what sudane said and arria that we keep our high goals going and in place. not lower our bar
[2011/08/23 08:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i feel strongly about also that we could coordinate with orgs like BB and maybe by looking elsewhere
[2011/08/23 08:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: for volunteers we also simujltaineously will be getting people
[2011/08/23 08:57] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: interesting and interested in being part of CDS
[2011/08/23 08:57] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me raises hand.
[2011/08/23 08:58] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: pershaps we think outside the box a little more
[2011/08/23 08:58] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[2011/08/23 08:58] Rosie Gray: right now there has been no activity at all with the New Guild
[2011/08/23 08:58] Rosie Gray: for quite some time
[2011/08/23 08:58] Rosie Gray: so there is nobody in charge of volunteers or faculty
[2011/08/23 08:58] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so how od you kow that there are no more voulteers
[2011/08/23 08:59] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: not enough
[2011/08/23 08:59] Rosie Gray: or anything else
[2011/08/23 08:59] Rosie Gray: I was speaking of all of the CDS
[2011/08/23 08:59] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so why did you say we dont have enough
[2011/08/23 08:59] Mizou Vavoom: /meexcuses herself but she has to leave meeting to take RL bus home. Thanks
[2011/08/23 08:59] Rosie Gray: thanks for coming Mizou
[2011/08/23 08:59] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: bye mizou
[2011/08/23 08:59] josjoha: bye Miz
[2011/08/23 08:59] Ulysse Alexandre: bye Mizou
[2011/08/23 08:59] Mizou Vavoom: bye althanks
[2011/08/23 08:59] Sonja Strom: bye for now Mizou
[2011/08/23 08:59] Second Life: Mizou Vavoom is offline.
[2011/08/23 09:00] josjoha: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 09:00] Rosie Gray: so, when I said there are very few volunteers, I was actually referring to active citizens of all of the CDS
[2011/08/23 09:00] Rosie Gray: Jos is next
[2011/08/23 09:00] josjoha: (i have a new point tho)
[2011/08/23 09:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me nods in agreeing with Rosie.
[2011/08/23 09:00] josjoha: (is that ok ?)
[2011/08/23 09:01] Rosie Gray: yes
[2011/08/23 09:01] Rosie Gray: as long as it is to do withe the Mission statement
[2011/08/23 09:01] josjoha: The NG is in a monopoly position, and I was just thinking that it is one option to divide the NG up into several orgs around parts of the mission statement,
[2011/08/23 09:01] josjoha: you could get some competition then, which is normal for 'private enterprise'
[2011/08/23 09:02] josjoha: if the missions overlap, but
[2011/08/23 09:02] josjoha: it seems doubtful the population is big enough to sustain several private orgs. done
[2011/08/23 09:02] josjoha: ty
[2011/08/23 09:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me nods.
[2011/08/23 09:02] Rosie Gray: Trebor
[2011/08/23 09:02] Pip Torok: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 09:03] Trebor Warcliffe: I'll make this short and sweet becaus eI have to leave after i type
[2011/08/23 09:03] Trebor Warcliffe: In regards to the Mission of the NG
[2011/08/23 09:03] Arria Perreault: /me wants to answer to Jos
[2011/08/23 09:03] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes it is ambitious but
[2011/08/23 09:03] Trebor Warcliffe: it is a noble mission
[2011/08/23 09:04] Trebor Warcliffe: and even though we dont have the population to act on all aspects of that mission
[2011/08/23 09:04] Trebor Warcliffe: doesnt mean we should simplify the mission
[2011/08/23 09:04] Trebor Warcliffe: we work with what we have and try to make it better.
[2011/08/23 09:05] Trebor Warcliffe: As we grow, which is a long process, hopefully more interest will be shown by the citizens for the guild
[2011/08/23 09:05] Trebor Warcliffe: I thank you, I have to leave to go back to rl.
[2011/08/23 09:05] Trebor Warcliffe: Done
[2011/08/23 09:05] Rosie Gray: thanks Trebor
[2011/08/23 09:05] Rosie Gray: bye for now
[2011/08/23 09:05] Second Life: Trebor Warcliffe is offline.
[2011/08/23 09:05] Ulysse Alexandre: bye bye Trebor
[2011/08/23 09:05] Rosie Gray: Pip, you are next
[2011/08/23 09:06] Rosie Gray: are you there Pip?
[2011/08/23 09:06] Rosie Gray: hmmmmm
[2011/08/23 09:06] Pip Torok: just to reinforce trebors point and respectfully oppose jos in splitting up the NG as we wd be "putting the cart before the horse" done
[2011/08/23 09:07] Rosie Gray: okay, thanks Pip
[2011/08/23 09:07] Rosie Gray: has everyone who wants to speak about the Mission Statement been able to address it at least once?
[2011/08/23 09:07] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me raises hand.
[2011/08/23 09:07] josjoha: /me I was only giving a possibility, not one I would necessarily agree with, though it has some logic, ty Pip.
[2011/08/23 09:07] Rosie Gray: lol
[2011/08/23 09:07] Arria Perreault: /me wants to answer to Jos
[2011/08/23 09:08] Rosie Gray: okay, I would like to give my opinion now too
[2011/08/23 09:08] josjoha: /me (assumes that it is OK to answer without raising hand.)
[2011/08/23 09:08] Rosie Gray: I think it is very ambitious , due to the number of active people that we usually have in CDS
[2011/08/23 09:08] Arria Perreault: after Rosie ;-)
[2011/08/23 09:08] Rosie Gray: but I do agree with Sudane and a few others here that we should keep the Mission Statement as it is
[2011/08/23 09:09] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 09:09] josjoha: /me Arria is waiting
[2011/08/23 09:09] josjoha: (oops sorry Rosie)
[2011/08/23 09:09] Rosie Gray: I just want to recognize that it IS ambitious, and that we are essentially starting with this organization again, building it from the ground up
[2011/08/23 09:09] Rosie Gray: Arria?
[2011/08/23 09:10] Arria Perreault: I just want to tell Jos that the NG has already made two entities: the Faculty and the Board
[2011/08/23 09:11] Arria Perreault: they act separately and the missions are already clearly defined
[2011/08/23 09:11] Arria Perreault: done
[2011/08/23 09:11] Rosie Gray: that's true Arria, but it seems that the Board is just whoever shows up
[2011/08/23 09:11] Rosie Gray: Jos?
[2011/08/23 09:11] josjoha: That's very interesting, I didn't know that ty Arria.
[2011/08/23 09:11] Arria Perreault: ㋡
[2011/08/23 09:12] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me raises hand.
[2011/08/23 09:12] Rosie Gray: are you finished Jos?
[2011/08/23 09:12] josjoha: done
[2011/08/23 09:12] josjoha: ty Rosie
[2011/08/23 09:12] Rosie Gray: Guillaume
[2011/08/23 09:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: I would just like to point out that, from a micronation point of view, it is organisational suicide to keep a mission this large, without the capacity to fulfill it. If it doesn't have the capacity to fulfill its mission, it frightens people away because of the size of the mission. And, it also scares away people who are already in the organisation because they're, essentially, failing their mission, in some respect.
[2011/08/23 09:14] Guillaume Mistwalker: Done.
[2011/08/23 09:14] Rosie Gray: /me nods
[2011/08/23 09:14] josjoha: /me nods
[2011/08/23 09:14] Rosie Gray: well that is a good point Guillaume, and that's why I wanted to raise the whole topic
[2011/08/23 09:15] Rain Ninetails: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 09:15] Rosie Gray: since we are essentially starting this up again
[2011/08/23 09:15] Rosie Gray: Rain?
[2011/08/23 09:15] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises hand again
[2011/08/23 09:15] Rain Ninetails: mm
[2011/08/23 09:15] Sonja Strom: /me *raises hand*
[2011/08/23 09:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: Oh, sorry, just like to point out that I've seen perfectly wonderful organisations -- such as this one -- go under and become inactive because of their mission being too large.
[2011/08/23 09:15] Guillaume Mistwalker: I apologise, Rain.
[2011/08/23 09:16] Rain Ninetails: I wanted to ask, in whagt I saw of the mission statement, the Eduction of creation of Content.
[2011/08/23 09:16] Rain Ninetails: sif here is sometingmore specific?
[2011/08/23 09:16] Rosie Gray: there is not, that I have seen
[2011/08/23 09:17] Rain Ninetails: and maybe some aspectes are more important than others.
[2011/08/23 09:17] Rosie Gray: and I don't believe that the Educational aspect has ever been operational
[2011/08/23 09:17] Rain Ninetails: CDS specific content? or general creating skills ?
[2011/08/23 09:17] Super's AO 4.0: Touched.
[2011/08/23 09:17] Super's AO 4.0: Touched.
[2011/08/23 09:17] Super's AO 4.0: Touched.
[2011/08/23 09:17] Second Life: punchi (punchinello.philbin) is online.
[2011/08/23 09:17] Rosie Gray: does anyone present know of any time that the educational aspect was active?
[2011/08/23 09:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me shakes his head.
[2011/08/23 09:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes it has been when we built sims
[2011/08/23 09:18] Sudane Erato: a few events were held
[2011/08/23 09:18] Sonja Strom: yes, but mostly they were done by Jon Seattle,
[2011/08/23 09:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: mentoring and things like that with building
[2011/08/23 09:18] Rosie Gray: but was there ever a 'school' as such?
[2011/08/23 09:18] Pip Torok: none except that Jon on one occasion offered his skills to teach
[2011/08/23 09:18] Rosie Gray: okay, mentoring
[2011/08/23 09:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but they have been done, yes
[2011/08/23 09:18] Sonja Strom: a few by Brian Livingstone.
[2011/08/23 09:18] Oskar Eddenbaum: Big Prims - LL has enabled Mesh and BIG prims grid wide. That means we can now use Mesh (sculpties but better and you need next viewer for it) and we can ALL make prims that are 60x60x60 meters big, compared to the old 10x10x10 prims. In the coming days I will be rebuilding part of Berlin (you won't notice much) and with some luck this will free up a bunch of prims for us to play with.
[2011/08/23 09:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes but its been a while ago sudane would remember and arria
[2011/08/23 09:18] Sonja Strom: Neither of them have done that for years now.
[2011/08/23 09:18] Rosie Gray: okay, so it is a long time ago
[2011/08/23 09:19] Rain Ninetails: or if any one else is showing how to do CDS specific content?
[2011/08/23 09:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i do have a question , raising hand.
[2011/08/23 09:19] Rosie Gray: are you done rain?
[2011/08/23 09:19] Rain Ninetails: done :)
[2011/08/23 09:19] Rosie Gray: okay, Cleo is next
[2011/08/23 09:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I am sorry to say I do not know how to say this
[2011/08/23 09:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but rosie, how do you justify
[2011/08/23 09:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i mean are you goign to do both the RA and lead the guild
[2011/08/23 09:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and if so,
[2011/08/23 09:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: how then can we know that your desire to lower the bar of the guild
[2011/08/23 09:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: is unrlated to you personally feeling overwhelmed
[2011/08/23 09:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: sand not that the guild with a sole leader could handle this large mission.
[2011/08/23 09:20] Rosie Gray: you are out of order here Cleo, we are talking about the Mission Statement
[2011/08/23 09:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it is due to the mission
[2011/08/23 09:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: directly i am sorry
[2011/08/23 09:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you are wanting to lower the mission
[2011/08/23 09:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and it is my quesiton if that is related to you personally feeling overwhelmed
[2011/08/23 09:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it is directly related
[2011/08/23 09:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i am not out of line. or out of subject.
[2011/08/23 09:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you might not want to discuss it , but it is related
[2011/08/23 09:21] Rosie Gray: are you finished?
[2011/08/23 09:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no
[2011/08/23 09:22] Guillaume Mistwalker: I believe it makes sense, Cleo, to lower the mission. I believe that Mme Rosie has taken personal offense to even the slightest sense of thinking of herself and not the organisation. I may be out of line, but I find such very disrespectful.
[2011/08/23 09:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done, but i would like the opporuntity to respond and the rules to change so we can. when we ask a question .
[2011/08/23 09:23] Rosie Gray: Cleo, I have never said that I think we should change the Missions Statement
[2011/08/23 09:23] Rosie Gray: I wanted discussion around it, and was pointing out that it was very ambitious for thenumber of active people we have
[2011/08/23 09:23] Rosie Gray: Sonja is next
[2011/08/23 09:23] Sonja Strom: Thank you...
[2011/08/23 09:24] Sonja Strom: Actually I have questions about that topic as well, but yes, we can talk more about it later.
[2011/08/23 09:24] Sonja Strom: What I want to bring up now is,
[2011/08/23 09:24] Sonja Strom: a comment made by Guillaume earlier that I think makes sense.
[2011/08/23 09:24] Sonja Strom: The Guild classrooms up in the sky above us are using prims in Neufreistadt that maybe could be put to more active uses.
[2011/08/23 09:25] Sonja Strom: That said, even if we want to hold classes, they could be given somewhere else.
[2011/08/23 09:25] Sonja Strom: In this room for example, or on another sim in the CDS.
[2011/08/23 09:25] Sonja Strom: Thanks :-)
[2011/08/23 09:25] Rosie Gray: I completely agree with that Sonja
[2011/08/23 09:25] Rosie Gray: they are wasted prims
[2011/08/23 09:26] Rosie Gray: I worry about how we could have an active school without a large sandbox though
[2011/08/23 09:26] Arria Perreault: there is room in LA ;-)
[2011/08/23 09:26] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me nods.
[2011/08/23 09:26] Guillaume Mistwalker: Haha.
[2011/08/23 09:26] Rosie Gray: yes there is lol
[2011/08/23 09:26] Sonja Strom: yes , there is :)
[2011/08/23 09:26] Sudane Erato: there is NOT room in LA if all the parcels are sold
[2011/08/23 09:26] Sonja Strom: true, true...
[2011/08/23 09:27] Rosie Gray: very true
[2011/08/23 09:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: Sad truth is, they aren't.
[2011/08/23 09:27] Rosie Gray: and it is also not set up as a sandbox
[2011/08/23 09:27] Arria Perreault: well ... I had an idea, but it's not for today
[2011/08/23 09:27] Rosie Gray: /me nods
[2011/08/23 09:27] Rosie Gray: I think we can move on to the next topic if everyone has finished about the Mission Statement
[2011/08/23 09:28] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me nods.
[2011/08/23 09:28] Pip Torok: n ods
[2011/08/23 09:28] Rosie Gray: can we all agree to do that?
[2011/08/23 09:28] Sudane Erato: sure
[2011/08/23 09:28] josjoha: raises hand
[2011/08/23 09:28] Rosie Gray: Jos?
[2011/08/23 09:28] josjoha: did we reach real conclusions that can be done ?
[2011/08/23 09:28] josjoha: done
[2011/08/23 09:29] Arria Perreault: (I had the same question)
[2011/08/23 09:29] Rosie Gray: it is my understanding from the general discussion that the majority would like to keep the mission statement the way it is, even though recognizing that it is ambitious
[2011/08/23 09:29] josjoha: Maybe we can have a vote, or does it not work like so ?
[2011/08/23 09:29] Rosie Gray: does anyone wish to make a motion about it?
[2011/08/23 09:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me moves the mission stays the same
[2011/08/23 09:30] josjoha: /me motion to have a vote on whether the mission statement is ok
[2011/08/23 09:30] Pip Torok: /me agrees and that it is better to pressn rather than query how far we will get
[2011/08/23 09:30] Arria Perreault: second Jos's motion
[2011/08/23 09:30] Sonja Strom: jos, I think we are sort of making this up as we go, hehe
[2011/08/23 09:30] Rosie Gray: doe we have a second for Cleo's Motion?
[2011/08/23 09:30] josjoha: Sonja, lovely
[2011/08/23 09:30] Sonja Strom: :-)
[2011/08/23 09:30] Rosie Gray: Cleo has made a motion
[2011/08/23 09:30] Rosie Gray: to keep the missions statement
[2011/08/23 09:31] Arria Perreault: Jos's motion has asecond
[2011/08/23 09:31] josjoha: /me motion to review this subject again
[2011/08/23 09:31] Arria Perreault: second
[2011/08/23 09:31] Rosie Gray: your motion is to talk about the Missions kStatement again?
[2011/08/23 09:32] Rosie Gray: okay, let us vote on that
[2011/08/23 09:32] josjoha: yes
[2011/08/23 09:32] Arria Perreault: to decide if we change them or not
[2011/08/23 09:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: [9:30] josjoha Resident motion to have a vote on whether the mission statement is ok
[2011/08/23 09:32] Rosie Gray: all those in favour of reviewing the Mission Statement again?
[2011/08/23 09:32] josjoha: (sorry i was getting confused on 2 motions)
[2011/08/23 09:32] Pip Torok: nay
[2011/08/23 09:32] josjoha: aye
[2011/08/23 09:33] Arria Perreault: aye
[2011/08/23 09:33] Guillaume Mistwalker: Aye -- I think it must be resolved.
[2011/08/23 09:33] Sonja Strom: aye
[2011/08/23 09:33] Ulysse Alexandre: aye
[2011/08/23 09:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: pass
[2011/08/23 09:33] Sudane Erato: aye, but i don't think it needs changing... no harm in talk
[2011/08/23 09:33] Rosie Gray: aye
[2011/08/23 09:34] Rosie Gray: okay, so for the next meeting, we can talk about it some more
[2011/08/23 09:34] Sudane Erato: :)
[2011/08/23 09:34] Arria Perreault: can we talk in the forums too?
[2011/08/23 09:34] Rosie Gray: Now, for the second point on the Agenda
[2011/08/23 09:34] josjoha: /me previous motion to vote on mission statement withdrawn
[2011/08/23 09:34] Rosie Gray: oh good idea Arria
[2011/08/23 09:34] Rosie Gray: I will start a thread for it
[2011/08/23 09:34] Arria Perreault: thx
[2011/08/23 09:35] Rosie Gray: if everyone can participate there, it would help our discussion ㋡
[2011/08/23 09:35] Rosie Gray: and then when we reconvene we will hopefully have reached some conclusions
[2011/08/23 09:35] Rosie Gray: right...
[2011/08/23 09:35] Rosie Gray: #2
[2011/08/23 09:35] Rosie Gray: New Guild Charter
[2011/08/23 09:35] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me raises hand.
[2011/08/23 09:36] Rosie Gray: as you all know, I am here as Secretary, but it is against the NG charter. Who would like to speak about this? Guillaume is first
[2011/08/23 09:36] Pip Torok: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 09:36] Sudane Erato: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 09:36] Guillaume Mistwalker: I believe that, not only is our mission too big, but our organisation is too large for the number of participants.
[2011/08/23 09:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: We are also confounded because there exists no realistic and lawful way of amending the Charter.
[2011/08/23 09:37] Arria Perreault: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 09:37] Arria Perreault: /me *raises hand*
[2011/08/23 09:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: One can imply that the NG amended the charter when it elected you, Rosie.
[2011/08/23 09:37] Guillaume Mistwalker: And I am most certain that, by your election, such is the case.
[2011/08/23 09:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 09:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: I would like to see the Charter redrafted and form a smaller organisation, more capable of responding to its duties as found in the mission. This must be discussed, though.
[2011/08/23 09:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: Done.
[2011/08/23 09:38] Rosie Gray: thank you Guillaume, Piip is next
[2011/08/23 09:38] Rosie Gray: Pip*
[2011/08/23 09:38] Pip Torok: my point
[2011/08/23 09:40] Pip Torok: w are too few to avois conflicts of interest at the present time ... so I suggest we amend the phrase to include "where practicable" done
[2011/08/23 09:40] Rosie Gray: thank you Pip, Sudane?
[2011/08/23 09:40] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me nods.
[2011/08/23 09:40] Sudane Erato: i disagree with Guuillaume..
[2011/08/23 09:40] Sudane Erato: we have not amended the charter by electing Rosie
[2011/08/23 09:41] Sudane Erato: we have simply created an issue which needs resolution
[2011/08/23 09:41] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me raises hand.
[2011/08/23 09:41] Sudane Erato: i do not think the charter needs revision..
[2011/08/23 09:42] Sudane Erato: but I am more than happy to offer a motion to create a waiver for Rosie's term in the NG
[2011/08/23 09:42] Sudane Erato: done
[2011/08/23 09:42] Rosie Gray: thank you Sudane, Arria is next
[2011/08/23 09:42] Arria Perreault: (waiver=exception?)
[2011/08/23 09:42] Sonja Strom: yes
[2011/08/23 09:42] Arria Perreault: two points
[2011/08/23 09:42] Pip Torok: /me would to see this meeting accept Sudane's offer
[2011/08/23 09:43] Sudane Erato: yes... a specific action allowing her to serve both roles... judt for this ocassion
[2011/08/23 09:43] josjoha: is that allowed by the charter, is "the waiver" in the charter
[2011/08/23 09:43] Arria Perreault: first I think that more than one point has to be adressed in the NG Charter
[2011/08/23 09:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: me nods to sudane
[2011/08/23 09:43] Sudane Erato: the charter does not disallow it
[2011/08/23 09:44] Arria Perreault: since we have voted it, we have made some experiences. some things are just not practicable. it is mainly about the Faculty. I am fine with the part concerning the Board.
[2011/08/23 09:44] Arria Perreault: I also agree with Guillaume: we should make a simplification
[2011/08/23 09:44] Arria Perreault: Second point: article 22
[2011/08/23 09:45] Arria Perreault: I think we whould remind why we have made this article
[2011/08/23 09:46] Arria Perreault: one of the reason (or the main reason) is the role of the NG in th building of a new sim
[2011/08/23 09:46] Arria Perreault: there is a bill describing that
[2011/08/23 09:46] Arria Perreault: the RA give a mandate to the NG
[2011/08/23 09:46] Arria Perreault: and the NG should be independant
[2011/08/23 09:47] Super's AO 4.0: Touched.
[2011/08/23 09:47] Super's AO 4.0: Touched.
[2011/08/23 09:47] Super's AO 4.0: Touched.
[2011/08/23 09:47] Arria Perreault: for little projects, maybe there is no big consequences
[2011/08/23 09:47] Arria Perreault: but for bigger projects with financial aspects like a new sim, I see it as problematic
[2011/08/23 09:48] Arria Perreault: done
[2011/08/23 09:48] Rosie Gray: okay, Cleo is next
[2011/08/23 09:48] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I belive that if it does come to pass that Rosie, or anyone in fact in the future.. a remains in both bodies , the RA and the guild leader.... , that it is obvious that this poses pose an obvious conflict of interest that regardless of our size is unacceptable ,
[2011/08/23 09:48] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: If this is even to be considered as an option there must be a provision that the guild requires the RA member who is in leadership of the guild... to not vote on any issues that would be a conflict of interest, and that to do so would be consequential
[2011/08/23 09:49] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: In other words, if rosie stays in charge of the guild she should be bound to not be allowed to vote in the RA on any decisions which have anything to do with the guild. The decision of this conflict on an individual basis should be made by some other body than the leader of the guild, but the body as a whole.
[2011/08/23 09:49] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[2011/08/23 09:49] josjoha: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 09:49] Rosie Gray: thank you Cleo, Guillaume is next
[2011/08/23 09:49] Pip Torok: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 09:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: A few points.
[2011/08/23 09:49] josjoha: /me *raises hand*
[2011/08/23 09:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: One: the charter contains no clause providing that it is the supreme law of this organisation.
[2011/08/23 09:50] josjoha: (oops, testing a gesture here, sorry Rosie)
[2011/08/23 09:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: Further more, it contains no process for amendment.
[2011/08/23 09:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thereby, by the actions of this organisation itself, it has over-riden the charter in that respect.
[2011/08/23 09:50] Guillaume Mistwalker: That is democratic, in that this guild elected you, Rosie.
[2011/08/23 09:51] Guillaume Mistwalker: Perhaps if the charter contained a supremacy clause and amendment process, this would be a clear-cut legal issue -- however, the charter does not contain those things.
[2011/08/23 09:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thereby, it is a legal inference that I implied that the NG "amended" de facto the charter.
[2011/08/23 09:52] Guillaume Mistwalker: Furthermore, it would be unwise to limit our volunteers.
Last edited by Rosie Gray on Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Board Meeting August 23, 2011 Transcription

Post by Rosie Gray »

Part 2 of the transcription:
[2011/08/23 09:52] Sudane Erato: only if there was in fact an "intent" to ammend the charter
[2011/08/23 09:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: However, we can not lawfully amend the charter, Sudane.
[2011/08/23 09:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: There exists no process in the charter.
[2011/08/23 09:53] Sudane Erato: therewas no intent
[2011/08/23 09:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: That was a mistake.
[2011/08/23 09:53] Guillaume Mistwalker: A serious, confounding mistake.
[2011/08/23 09:53] Arria Perreault: /me raising hand
[2011/08/23 09:53] Arria Perreault: /me *raises hand*
[2011/08/23 09:53] Rosie Gray: There was no discussion, at the meeting when I was elected, about the Charter at all
[2011/08/23 09:54] Rosie Gray: Arria?
[2011/08/23 09:54] Guillaume Mistwalker: I have most recently tried to volunteer to build for the CDS as a volunteer to the NG, and I would like to point out that I was barred from volunteering because of red tape. If this is the type of organisation, you want -- so be it, but I feel that it is detrimental to the community and organisation if it does so willingly. Done.
[2011/08/23 09:55] Rosie Gray: thank you Guillaume
[2011/08/23 09:56] Second Life: Trill Zapatero is online.
[2011/08/23 09:57] Arria Perreault: Guilaume, I don't follow your argumetation very well. in one side, you say that there is no procedure to amend the Charter. on the other side, you admit that the election of Rosie amends the Charter. It supposes that any vote that is against the Cahrter will modify it.
[2011/08/23 09:57] Pip Torok: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 09:57] Guillaume Mistwalker: May i clarify.
[2011/08/23 09:57] Guillaume Mistwalker: *I clarify?
[2011/08/23 09:57] Arria Perreault: this said, I am sure that with a democratic vote, we can amend this Charter
[2011/08/23 09:57] Arria Perreault: I think you were clear
[2011/08/23 09:58] Guillaume Mistwalker: It seems not
[2011/08/23 09:58] Rosie Gray: are you finished Arria?
[2011/08/23 09:58] Arria Perreault: yes
[2011/08/23 09:58] Rosie Gray: okay, Guillaume, you wanted to clarify?
[2011/08/23 09:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: The Charter contains no de jure, no "by law", process to amend. It was an inference that de facto, "by fact", that the NG amended its own charter. It wasn't lawful or found in the law -- as there exists no de jure process -- but it was an amendment done by practice.
[2011/08/23 10:00] Guillaume Mistwalker: There are de facto amendments to even de jure things, as society changes. What confounds the situation is that the charter has no de jure process. Done.
[2011/08/23 10:01] Rosie Gray: thank you Guillaume, Pip
[2011/08/23 10:01] Pip Torok: small point
[2011/08/23 10:01] Arria Perreault: do all agree with Guillaume's argumentation ?
[2011/08/23 10:02] Sonja Strom: I do not
[2011/08/23 10:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no
[2011/08/23 10:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i dont
[2011/08/23 10:02] Sudane Erato: Pip is talking
[2011/08/23 10:02] Pip Torok: unless this issue is settled quickly and effecxtively there is danger that BOTh the NG and the RA will be hamstrung .. and thus choke the total business of ther CDS done
[2011/08/23 10:02] Rosie Gray: can we hear Pip's point
[2011/08/23 10:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me nods.
[2011/08/23 10:02] Rosie Gray: thank you Pip
[2011/08/23 10:02] Guillaume Mistwalker: Such is a major issue of law.
[2011/08/23 10:02] Rosie Gray: does anyone else want to speak to this point?
[2011/08/23 10:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me rasises hand
[2011/08/23 10:03] Rosie Gray: Cleo
[2011/08/23 10:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I just dont think we make long term precedent settin g decision based on a fear of this sort of thing, disregarding what is right
[2011/08/23 10:03] josjoha: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 10:03] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we dont act out of fear we dont have enough people or that the city will crumpble if we dont do the right thing
[2011/08/23 10:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we need todo what is right and knwo that we are also setting precendent for the future of our democracy. and i am very concerened about the obvious conflict of interest.
[2011/08/23 10:04] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[2011/08/23 10:04] Sonja Strom: /me *raises hand*
[2011/08/23 10:05] Rosie Gray: Jos
[2011/08/23 10:05] josjoha: 1. Will someone be capable of illicetly profit from being both in the RA and NG, so is there a factual conflict of interest danger of serious magnitude; 2. I do in general not agree that electing Rosie thus changes the charter, because a charter is to be something firm, though it is a good point that there is no supremacy clause and such.
[2011/08/23 10:05] josjoha: done
[2011/08/23 10:06] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me raises hand to clarify, again.
[2011/08/23 10:06] Rosie Gray: Sonja
[2011/08/23 10:06] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[2011/08/23 10:07] Sonja Strom: I am thankful for everything Rosie has been doing, and wants to do for this community.
[2011/08/23 10:07] Sonja Strom: However, I also see there is some conflict in her being in two elected roles at the same time.
[2011/08/23 10:07] Sonja Strom: I agree with Sudane and then CLEO,
[2011/08/23 10:08] Sonja Strom: we can make an exception and allow Rosie to be in both roles of RA Member and New Guild Chair,
[2011/08/23 10:08] Sonja Strom: but she should then exclude herself from RA votes on matters effecting the New Guild.
[2011/08/23 10:08] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[2011/08/23 10:08] Rosie Gray: Guillaume?
[2011/08/23 10:08] Guillaume Mistwalker: I just wanted to quickly point out that de facto always concedes its right to de jure, so long that the rule of law over-rules all. In this case, according to the legal wording of the charter, it does not. Done.
[2011/08/23 10:09] Rosie Gray: thank you... anyone else?
[2011/08/23 10:09] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 10:10] Arria Perreault: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 10:10] Sudane Erato: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 10:11] Rosie Gray: okay, CLEO
[2011/08/23 10:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: someof us will remember when there was a conflict of interest in CDS with gywen being in the SC and in thre RA, at this time confilct of elect roles was address, i completely believe that it was only an oversight that the guild NEW Guild leader was not included in this bill
[2011/08/23 10:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and that the spirit of that law applies here
[2011/08/23 10:11] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[2011/08/23 10:11] Rosie Gray: thank you, Arria?
[2011/08/23 10:13] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises hand..
[2011/08/23 10:13] Arria Perreault: I can admit the solution proposed above by Sonja, Cleo and Sudane. We can give you a waiver until the end of the term under the condition that you engage yourself not to vote when the NG is involved. This said, I'd like to clarify how we can make the NG Guild evolve regarding Charter.
[2011/08/23 10:14] Rosie Gray: okay, please continue Arria
[2011/08/23 10:15] Arria Perreault: of course, it will be a personal and moral engagement as no law can forbid you to vote in the RA, as the SC has decided that it was a question of the NG as private organization.
[2011/08/23 10:15] Arria Perreault: done
[2011/08/23 10:15] Rosie Gray: /me nods
[2011/08/23 10:15] Rosie Gray: I would like to say something here about this as well
[2011/08/23 10:16] Rosie Gray: firstly, I see this Secretary of the NG position as being the chairperson, primarily
[2011/08/23 10:16] Rosie Gray: I don't see how that creates too much of a conflict
[2011/08/23 10:16] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises hand.
[2011/08/23 10:17] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me nods.
[2011/08/23 10:17] Pip Torok: /me nods
[2011/08/23 10:17] Arria Perreault: (making a agenda is not neutral)
[2011/08/23 10:17] Rosie Gray: and that, as Arria just pointed out, the RA charter doesn't forbid voting
[2011/08/23 10:17] josjoha: /me doubts
[2011/08/23 10:17] Second Life: Sazzy (sazzy.oh) is online.
[2011/08/23 10:18] Rosie Gray: making an Agenda can be neutral though, if consultation takes place with an existing Board
[2011/08/23 10:18] Rosie Gray: this is a problem with the NG, since there really is no Board
[2011/08/23 10:18] josjoha: But in the reality of policies nothing is ever neutral..
[2011/08/23 10:18] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me nods.
[2011/08/23 10:18] Rosie Gray: and an Agenda can always be modified
[2011/08/23 10:19] Pip Torok: /me notes that the making of any Agenda should be as neutral as the participants of a meeting can agree that it be
[2011/08/23 10:19] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 10:19] Rosie Gray: yes I agree Pip, and that is always my intention
[2011/08/23 10:19] Rosie Gray: okay, Sudane is net
[2011/08/23 10:19] Rosie Gray: next
[2011/08/23 10:19] Sudane Erato: yes
[2011/08/23 10:19] Sudane Erato: in response to Guillaume, I believe that the rule of law should serve us and enable us. It should not prevent the betterment of our community. The only issues that should be discussed are what is better for our community
[2011/08/23 10:19] Arria Perreault: /me *raises hand*
[2011/08/23 10:19] Sudane Erato: done
[2011/08/23 10:20] Rosie Gray: I agree Sudane, that we need to be practical and not get into too much lawyerly language
[2011/08/23 10:20] josjoha: I do not have the slightest doubts of the proper intentions, dedication and quality of work by Rosie, however in making systems of Governance: nothing is ever neutral, corruption is always lurking, the next person in this matter may not be as fine as Rosie.
[2011/08/23 10:20] Rosie Gray: CLEO is next, I think
[2011/08/23 10:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I also understand and believe that you have the best of intentions rosie.and it is admir
[2011/08/23 10:20] Rosie Gray: thanks Jos ㋡
[2011/08/23 10:20] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: admirable that you want to serve CDS
[2011/08/23 10:20] josjoha: thanks to you Rosie...
[2011/08/23 10:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we though as the longer term residents of CDS, as it iss certaily split that the longer we are here the morelikely we see a conflict of interest.
[2011/08/23 10:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I have one question
[2011/08/23 10:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: do you care what we see as that conflict ?? do you know?
[2011/08/23 10:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and can i please ask my fellow citizens of long standing
[2011/08/23 10:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I would like to ask sudane and sonja and arria to give some examples or at least one each of how , a hypothetical of how it is a conflict of interest and why as long term citizens there is concern for what is best for CDS.
[2011/08/23 10:21] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: an example of why
[2011/08/23 10:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: because i do not beive we are on the same page.
[2011/08/23 10:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Does anyone have a foreseeable example of how this is a concern. ??
[2011/08/23 10:22] josjoha: /me supports Cleo's request, this should be interesting.
[2011/08/23 10:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: done
[2011/08/23 10:22] Arria Perreault: (I have one)
[2011/08/23 10:22] Rosie Gray: okay, let's hear it Arria
[2011/08/23 10:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: arria .. please say
[2011/08/23 10:23] Arria Perreault: I can give my own example
[2011/08/23 10:23] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me believes Pip has been a CDS for some time and it seems he is not of the same mind-set.
[2011/08/23 10:23] Pip Torok: /me notes that we are here to agree if we can, not to bring up narratives of past disagreements
[2011/08/23 10:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: not as long as us :)
[2011/08/23 10:23] Arria Perreault: I have launched a project to make a new sim Monastery
[2011/08/23 10:23] Rosie Gray: that is not a relevent point, Cleo
[2011/08/23 10:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: foreseeable conflict. it si that there is a split hon
[2011/08/23 10:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: on opinions
[2011/08/23 10:24] Arria Perreault: I was in the RA and very active in the NG
[2011/08/23 10:24] Arria Perreault: it was seen as a conflict of interest
[2011/08/23 10:24] Arria Perreault: the next term, I did not run for the RA to finish my project
[2011/08/23 10:24] Arria Perreault: and I got better results
[2011/08/23 10:25] Arria Perreault: for each question, project, this issue will come again
[2011/08/23 10:25] Guillaume Mistwalker: I call it "over-reacting".
[2011/08/23 10:25] Arria Perreault: as we deal with the church or the rathaus, maybe it's fine
[2011/08/23 10:25] Second Life: Tuatha Shippe is online.
[2011/08/23 10:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me looks down
[2011/08/23 10:25] Arria Perreault: but for sim projects, you really free hands
[2011/08/23 10:26] Arria Perreault: done
[2011/08/23 10:26] Sonja Strom: /me *raises hand*
[2011/08/23 10:26] Sonja Strom: For me the best example is in the ability of someone to develop a sim and then sell it to the CDS.
[2011/08/23 10:26] Sonja Strom: At the moment I forget the name of those laws.
[2011/08/23 10:26] Sonja Strom: If I remember correctly how that is supposed to work, the New Guild is supposed to make a recommendation to the RA, and then the RA votes on it.
[2011/08/23 10:26] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[2011/08/23 10:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me raises hand.
[2011/08/23 10:27] Arria Perreault: (Private development Act)
[2011/08/23 10:27] Sonja Strom: Yes, thank you Arria :-)
[2011/08/23 10:27] Sudane Erato: forgive me everyone... I must go, as RL demands it
[2011/08/23 10:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: Wouldn't that process be facilitated by an NG member sitting on the RA?
[2011/08/23 10:27] Guillaume Mistwalker: Goodbye, Sudane.
[2011/08/23 10:27] Rosie Gray: thanks for coming Sudane
[2011/08/23 10:27] Pip Torok: At this point in time, is there any steam left in the GMP (general Mastyer Plan)?
[2011/08/23 10:27] josjoha: bbyee
[2011/08/23 10:28] Pip Torok: *Master
[2011/08/23 10:28] Rosie Gray: /me notes the time and also has to go very soon
[2011/08/23 10:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: thank you sudane
[2011/08/23 10:28] Ulysse Alexandre: bye bye Sudane
[2011/08/23 10:28] Second Life: Sudane Erato is offline.
[2011/08/23 10:28] Pip Torok: bye Sudane
[2011/08/23 10:28] Sonja Strom: The General Master Plan is another good example :-)
[2011/08/23 10:28] Guillaume Mistwalker: And, also, we are a smaller community that we think we are. We all thing we are as corrupt as "macronations", as micronationalists call them. However, small communities such as these are rather free of corruption
[2011/08/23 10:29] Arria Perreault: Private development Act:
[2011/08/23 10:29] Sonja Strom: Guillaume, I want to make it very clear I am not accusing anyone of corruption!
[2011/08/23 10:29] Guillaume Mistwalker: I truly see no actual instance of corruption arising from this. I may even be as so bold as saying that all worries over Rosie being corrupt would be over-reactions.
[2011/08/23 10:29] josjoha: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 10:29] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no one is .. but are we to be a small nation
[2011/08/23 10:29] Sonja Strom: It is only a matter of the balance of decision-making, the process.
[2011/08/23 10:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: I know, but the worry is unfound in fact.
[2011/08/23 10:30] Guillaume Mistwalker: I cede to Jos.
[2011/08/23 10:30] josjoha: ty Guillaume
[2011/08/23 10:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises hand too
[2011/08/23 10:31] josjoha: Just as the matter of how big the danger is important for both positions to be the same person, just so the matter of how costly or grave it is to have another to be in the position ofSecretary of the NG, done. ty
[2011/08/23 10:31] Rosie Gray: I notice that this meeting has brought out more people than I have seen at any meeting for a very long time in CDS, as usually at RA meetings even there are very fewe.
[2011/08/23 10:31] Arria Perreault: /me raises hand to answer to Guillaume
[2011/08/23 10:31] Rosie Gray: okay, sorry I had to answer the phone, so I'm not sure who is next
[2011/08/23 10:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me raises her hand in answer too
[2011/08/23 10:31] josjoha: (I mean: if someone else took the position of Rosie, would that really be a problem ?)
[2011/08/23 10:31] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: me and arria :)
[2011/08/23 10:31] Rosie Gray: okay, plese go ahead
[2011/08/23 10:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we still need the rule of law not the rule of land
[10:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and we are setting precendent, so if say I was the leader of the New Guild, it wouldnt be okay for me to be in the RA too, but for rosie its okay ??
[2011/08/23 10:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: its the point that it is the law not the person
[2011/08/23 10:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and we are a nation of law , not of whos who in the dystunctional family
[2011/08/23 10:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: edone
[2011/08/23 10:32] josjoha: /me nods
[2011/08/23 10:32] Rosie Gray: okay, but it is not actually the law
[2011/08/23 10:32] Guillaume Mistwalker: Apparently we are not. Even our constitution hasn't a supremacy clause.
[2011/08/23 10:32] Rosie Gray: it is part of the charter of the NG
[2011/08/23 10:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it needs to be !
[2011/08/23 10:32] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: thats the point.
[2011/08/23 10:32] Rosie Gray: but it isn't
[2011/08/23 10:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so mmake a good law not say itsokay cos its rosie and we like her
[2011/08/23 10:33] Rosie Gray: so, we can deal with it the way it is
[2011/08/23 10:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we did that with Rose,
[2011/08/23 10:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and look what hapepned
[2011/08/23 10:33] Rosie Gray: we aren't here to make a law
[2011/08/23 10:33] Rosie Gray: since this isn't the RA
[2011/08/23 10:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we are here to do whats right for CDS i hope!
[2011/08/23 10:33] Guillaume Mistwalker: I find it odd that we surround ourselves with the issues of larger, real-world nations, yet we don't take the defenses of those large, real-world nations: such as having supremacy clauses.
[2011/08/23 10:33] Rosie Gray: yes indeed
[2011/08/23 10:33] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: not now but for the future and its growth
[2011/08/23 10:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: I have tried to volunteer before, Cleo. I was shot down. You seem ready to stop those volunteers that you claim you need so much.
[2011/08/23 10:34] Rosie Gray: Arria?
[2011/08/23 10:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: I do not want to stop volutneters
[2011/08/23 10:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: I apologise, Arria.
[2011/08/23 10:34] Arria Perreault: I have two remarks
[2011/08/23 10:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: get real
[2011/08/23 10:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: Then don't support policies that to, Cleo.
[2011/08/23 10:34] Guillaume Mistwalker: Do, pardon.
[2011/08/23 10:34] Arria Perreault: teh first one is about an example of a possible conflicts of interest
[2011/08/23 10:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: see the big picture
[2011/08/23 10:35] Rosie Gray: please... it's Arria's turn
[2011/08/23 10:35] Arria Perreault: the NL 8-2 "In-Theme" Expansion Act is the normal procedure to build a new sim
[2011/08/23 10:35] Arria Perreault:
[2011/08/23 10:35] Arria Perreault: it implies the RA and the NG
[2011/08/23 10:35] Arria Perreault: I think we should read it carefully once again
[2011/08/23 10:36] Arria Perreault: second
[2011/08/23 10:36] Arria Perreault: answer to Guillaume about corruption: my concern is not about corruption, but about the accumulation of powers in one person in a democracy
[2011/08/23 10:36] josjoha: /me raises hand
[2011/08/23 10:37] Arria Perreault: I have nothing against Rosie personally. I am sure she wants to do nice things for us
[2011/08/23 10:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: me too !
[2011/08/23 10:37] josjoha: of course...
[2011/08/23 10:37] Arria Perreault: in the same time she votes our laws, she manage our expansion and she has also Estate power
[2011/08/23 10:38] Arria Perreault: we can admit this for Rosie as person, but will the next person be as nice as she is
[2011/08/23 10:38] Xstreet SL Magic Box v3.0.11 current*: Xstreet SL - Delivered item Table for 12 Burl Top Boxed.
[2011/08/23 10:38] Arria Perreault: if we create this possibility today, it can be used in the future by an other kind of person
[2011/08/23 10:38] Arria Perreault: done
[2011/08/23 10:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me wants to make a motion : I move that Rosie step down form her RA seat to run the New Guild., where we really need her :)
[2011/08/23 10:39] Guillaume Mistwalker: I would hope that we would be so competent as to elect only nice, respectful people.
[2011/08/23 10:39] Rosie Gray: thank you Arria, Jos is next and then because of time constraints I will have to adjourn, but we can pick another meeting time first
[2011/08/23 10:39] josjoha: ty Rosie
[2011/08/23 10:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: well for the record..
[2011/08/23 10:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you adjorned before we coudl second my motion.
[2011/08/23 10:39] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: well done
[2011/08/23 10:40] Rosie Gray: I haven't adjourned yet, I said we would
[2011/08/23 10:40] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: keep that on the post on the forum okay ?
[2011/08/23 10:40] josjoha: I am wondering if there is another suitable candidate for the NG position Rosie has now,
[2011/08/23 10:40] Rosie Gray: I was typing while you were Cleo... but let's hear Jos
[2011/08/23 10:40] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: kk :)
[2011/08/23 10:40] josjoha: and I think it has been shown that
[2011/08/23 10:40] josjoha: there are serious concerns of conflict of interest,
[2011/08/23 10:41] josjoha: a new sim reportedly is 1000s of dollars,
[2011/08/23 10:41] Rosie Gray: not quite that much Jos
[2011/08/23 10:41] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[2011/08/23 10:41] josjoha: and if Rosie can do her RA job and her sim building, without this NG secratery position, i think we may have the best of all words, both in following law,
[2011/08/23 10:41] josjoha: and having Rosie do her marvelous work, which I hope she will continue.
[2011/08/23 10:41] josjoha: done
[2011/08/23 10:41] josjoha: ty
[2011/08/23 10:41] Rosie Gray: thank you
[2011/08/23 10:42] Rosie Gray: okay, now Cleo you wanted to make a motion?
[2011/08/23 10:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: i would like to make a motion yes
[2011/08/23 10:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: "I move that Rosie decide between her position in the Representative Assembly and Chair of the New Guild - to choose which she wants."
[2011/08/23 10:42] Arria Perreault: second
[2011/08/23 10:42] josjoha: third
[2011/08/23 10:42] Second Life: Naftali Torok is online.
[2011/08/23 10:43] Rosie Gray: okay, votes?
[2011/08/23 10:43] Guillaume Mistwalker: Nay.
[2011/08/23 10:43] Sonja Strom: aye
[2011/08/23 10:43] josjoha: aye
[2011/08/23 10:43] Pip Torok: nay
[2011/08/23 10:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: aye
[2011/08/23 10:43] Arria Perreault: aye
[2011/08/23 10:43] Ulysse Alexandre: aye
[2011/08/23 10:43] josjoha: (I assume there is an actual candidate fitting for this job in the NG...!)
[2011/08/23 10:43] Rosie Gray: abstain
[2011/08/23 10:44] Guillaume Mistwalker: /me shakes his head in disappointment.
[2011/08/23 10:44] josjoha: lol
[2011/08/23 10:44] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: pray we find one .
[2011/08/23 10:44] Pip Torok: /me finds this motion unconstitutional in obliging a citizen to decide
[2011/08/23 10:44] josjoha: if we don't have one, that's pretty bad, then we better have Rosie
[2011/08/23 10:44] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: /me giggles at pip
[2011/08/23 10:44] Rosie Gray: well, since we don't have everyone's votes who were here for most of the meeting
[2011/08/23 10:44] Rosie Gray: which is too bad
[2011/08/23 10:44] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it is sad that guild votes are this way , i agree. change it for the future for sure
[2011/08/23 10:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: Not one that is willing to bring this CDS up to the 2011 values of sim quality, Jos.
[2011/08/23 10:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: did you ask ?
[2011/08/23 10:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ask alexia
[2011/08/23 10:45] josjoha: Guillaume, Rosie does that, but Rosie doesn't have to be NG secretary to build right ?
[2011/08/23 10:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: ask ceasaror amny of our talented builders in CDS
[2011/08/23 10:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we can ask !!!
[2011/08/23 10:45] Rosie Gray: Cleo, it was Moon that asked me to stand for Secretary
[2011/08/23 10:45] Sonja Strom: josjoha, that is true.
[2011/08/23 10:45] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and i am glad you did it dear. its wonderful that you did it
[2011/08/23 10:45] Guillaume Mistwalker: Generally, we need one who can support those who are willing to do so, Jos.
[2011/08/23 10:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: its really not about Rosie at all
[2011/08/23 10:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: No, it's about one's paranoid conspiracies.
[2011/08/23 10:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: its not about who
[2011/08/23 10:46] Rosie Gray: lol, yes
[2011/08/23 10:46] josjoha: Then i would hope that Rosiet stays in the RA which is more important i guess, and continues all the work on the sims, and leave this relatively minor chair in the NG to someone willing ?
[2011/08/23 10:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: it is about the law not about who
[2011/08/23 10:46] Guillaume Mistwalker: This is a grand disappointment to me.
[2011/08/23 10:46] Sonja Strom: For me it's not about Rosie personally at all either.
[2011/08/23 10:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: We all get disapointed in a democracy.
[2011/08/23 10:46] Sonja Strom: I think she is great!
[2011/08/23 10:46] Rosie Gray: Well I can tell you right now that I will choose to stay on the RA
[2011/08/23 10:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: its about moving on
[2011/08/23 10:46] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: she is!!!!
[2011/08/23 10:47] Arria Perreault: It's not against Rosie
[2011/08/23 10:47] Rosie Gray: I officially step down as Secretary of the NG
[2011/08/23 10:47] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: thats wonderful Rosie, and everyone thanks your hrd work
[2011/08/23 10:47] Guillaume Mistwalker: How very sad.
[2011/08/23 10:47] Rosie Gray: now, since there is nobody at all who officially represents the New Guild
[2011/08/23 10:47] Pip Torok: /me agrees with Guillaume
[2011/08/23 10:47] Rosie Gray: I have no idea what should transpire
[2011/08/23 10:47] Sonja Strom: Thank you, Rosie.
[2011/08/23 10:47] josjoha: lol
[2011/08/23 10:47] Rosie Gray: but I have to go, so
[2011/08/23 10:47] Sonja Strom: The New Guild can continue to meet...
[2011/08/23 10:47] josjoha: well... i *did* ask if there is another candidate lol
[2011/08/23 10:47] Rosie Gray: in the absence of anyone else
[2011/08/23 10:48] Rosie Gray: this meeting is adjourned
[2011/08/23 10:48] josjoha: /me motions for a new election for secretary of the NG
[2011/08/23 10:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: I used to think that the CDS was founded on reason...
[2011/08/23 10:48] Arria Perreault: second
[2011/08/23 10:48] Ulysse Alexandre: Thank you Rosie
[2011/08/23 10:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: Third.
[2011/08/23 10:48] Guillaume Mistwalker: Move to vote.
[2011/08/23 10:48] Pip Torok: we are adjourned
[2011/08/23 10:48] josjoha: who wants to be a candidate ?
[2011/08/23 10:48] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: :(
[2011/08/23 10:49] josjoha: Pip, not entirely certain, since Rosie stepped down ; )
[2011/08/23 10:49] Rosie Gray: you can't just do that right now
[2011/08/23 10:49] Ulysse Alexandre: I propose Guillaume as a candidate
[2011/08/23 10:49] josjoha: lol
[2011/08/23 10:49] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we need to ask on the forums
[2011/08/23 10:49] Sonja Strom: josjoha, we can put out calls for candidates.
[2011/08/23 10:49] josjoha: /me consedes to Rosie
[2011/08/23 10:49] Sonja Strom: The Guild can meet without an official Chair too.
[2011/08/23 10:49] Rosie Gray: anyway I have to go
[2011/08/23 10:49] Guillaume Mistwalker: I offer my nomination.
[2011/08/23 10:49] Pip Torok: she is still chair of this meeting and she has adjourned it
[2011/08/23 10:49] josjoha: ok ...
[2011/08/23 10:49] Rosie Gray: that's right
[2011/08/23 10:49] josjoha: Guillaume: thank you
[2011/08/23 10:49] Rosie Gray: bye everyone
"Courage, my friend, it's not too late to make the world a better place."
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Re: Board Meeting August 23, 2011 Transcription

Post by josjoha »


For the record: in rereading the log of this enjoyable discussion, I missed a point to which I would have said, about the proposal by Cleo that the person who is both NG Secretary and in the RA would be excluded from voting on topics relating to the NG in the RA: "I think it will be too much red tape and workload burden to have someone in the RA be excluded from certain topics, it would be better if someone is the RA has their hands free and is not under suspicions of conflicts of interests or unnecessary concentrations of power. Secondly if someone is also a major builder for the CDS, then it may also be better on that count not to also be chair of the NG, because by being chair one needs to be as neutral as possible, while being a builder one should be able to fiercely defend ones own builds. There seems to be a 2nd unnecessary conflation of positions (builder and NG secretary)."

By the way: if we can elect someone who supports Rosie's*) building efforts, in line with general will in the NG of course, then Rosie's building efforts could even proceed with greater power. Since it is possible to elect someone like that for the NG secretary position, which will free Rosie's hands to defend her builds both within the RA and the NG as she sees fit, I disagree with the point that it would be necessary for Rosie to have these 3 positions (important builder, NG Secretary and RA member) in order for her building ideas to move forward.

If someone can be found of that nature, which seems a natural concequence of Rosie being supported in her building, then the camp that wanted to keep Rosie in her NG position may not only get what they want, but advance their interests (which I agree with as well). Hence this outcome may be what is best for all parties.

I thank in particular Cleo for convincing and showing me that there was a conflict of interest, especially that the CDS may acquire new sims which apparently do cost some RL money.

*) Or to keep it formal, replace "Rosie" with "the person who is both NG Secretary, important builder for CDS, and RA member."

best regards and thanks for the meeting which I really enjoyed,


I note that if the argument is that someone needs to be NG Secretary in order to have certain plans move through, then the neutrality of the NG Secretary position is in doubt. The argument that NG Secretary needs to be a specific person to have a specific set of plans happen (in this case "get the CDS up to 2011 grade SL" a plan to which I agree by the way), conflicts with the argument that the NG Secretary position is to be handled as neutral (as neutral as possible) (in this case "set the agenda in accordance with the NG in a neutral way, and run the meetings as a neutral.")

Is the NG Secretary a position that needs to be neutral, in that case apparent conflict of interest should be avioded. If the NG Secretary position is one of an election for a certain program like a Government minister, then on the other hand the NG Secretary position does not need to avoid conflicts of interest because such would have been taken in considderation during the election and be ratified by it.

A chair person of a meeting for a democratic body is often a person considered neutral enough by all parties (or the most neutral suitible candidate), but that does not necessarily have to be the case. Constitution & Revolution, live happy ever after ...

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