CSDF General Meeting Friday 10 Nov - Transcript

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Patroklus Murakami
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CSDF General Meeting Friday 10 Nov - Transcript

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

The next General Meeting of the CSDF will be on [b:kfmcqtwx]Friday 10 Nov at 3pm[/b:kfmcqtwx]. **Please note new day of the week**.

Location: [b:kfmcqtwx]The Red House[/b:kfmcqtwx] on the Lowland Road, Neufreistadt.

[b:kfmcqtwx]Agenda[/b:kfmcqtwx]
[list:kfmcqtwx]1. Welcome to new members
2. Discussion: Fostering Civil Society in the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Rationale: We have discussed the need for non-governmental, non-market organisations to act as the 'glue' of civil society in the CDS. In RL these encompass trade unions, religious groups and voluntary organisations. What kind of groups would be appropriate for the CDS? How would we foster their development?
3. Legislative Discussion
- Covenant for CN, definition of 'commercial pornography' and CSDF position on local government and zoning
- Any other proposals before the RA[/list:u:kfmcqtwx]

Please add suggested agenda items to this thread.

This is an open meeting so all are welcome to attend
Last edited by Patroklus Murakami on Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Patroklus Murakami
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Revised Agenda

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

Since I first posted the provisional agenda for this meeting several other issues have come to the fore. Suddenly we have a lot to talk about! Here's my suggested revised agenda with some indication of timings so we get through it all:

Revised Agenda
1. Welcome to new members (5 mins)

2. Finalise agenda (5 mins)

3. Legislative Discussion
- Referenda (20 mins)
- Proposals to reform the Guild (30 mins)
- CN Covenants/ Definition of 'commercial pornography' (20 mins)
- Local Government/ Praetor proposal (20 mins)
- Judiciary Resolution (20 mins)

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Patroklus Murakami
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Transcript 1/2

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: pls touch the recorder , yada yada yada[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Item 1. welcome to new members[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: George Kolok and Gia May joined us. anyone know them?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I do not.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: nope[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: welcome :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: shankes head[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ah, btw[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: But welcome them anyway[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Ooh. Welcome, new and unknown members, don't be strangers :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i wanted to make a call here on account of that[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Navy:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Multi Gadget v1.49.3 by Timeless Prototype[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i must make contact with our new members to see if they are cds citizens. and encourage them to join if not[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Yes, a great idea.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: shall we agree item 2. the agenda? any changes ppl want to make?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: and that is for CSDF members to provide a mail adress if tehy are interested in participating in mail discussion[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: aaah good idea Moon![/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: since this is going to be posted...[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: yes, i will ask ppl to do that[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant nods[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Looks fine to me[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: well, agenda is fine with provision to my addition on praetor bill[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: that's fine moon[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: btw, everyone, tomorrow morning i will miss RA[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle nods[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: it was intended as a general discussion rather than on the specific proposal from claude[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: can someone take moons proxy?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Hm no.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: We can go to five day however.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: That is if Moon requests.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: So.. 3a- referenda. i see that the RA has discussed this a couple of times but is not nearer a conclusion. wd it help to work thru the qns i posed to structure discussion? they're on the notecard[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle reads[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn reads the notecarrd as well[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: well, they will have quorum, and even quorum for amendments[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i have to go and make an hospital visit, and i am not sure if i can be back in time[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: but u can request five day voting for all issues moon. that way your vote is not lost[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: hope you are not feeling unwell[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: btw I won't be there tomorrow either[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: thanks Ranma, not me, but someone close[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: and i *can* make it tomoro for a change :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: hope they recover[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i'm sorry to hear that moon[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: thank you :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Anyway... hmm....[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i fear this proposal is never going to reach the code[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: thanks for those questions, Pat[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: well pat[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I tend to agree with you hehe[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: the questions are not "answered" yet, or rather, the answers to them still differ e lot.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: you know, the proposal for discusiion on mail about work committees is justluy so that we reach an impasse on this[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ie.e. each person answers them differently.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: justly in that case*[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Yes, I very much hope that person recovers and will be thinking good thoughts.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: that is, to allow citizens to get in the consultive process anyway[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: hmm. impossible to get a consensus then? there's too many quns to answer?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Well, at least you're asking the correct ones![/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: as regards this referenda thing strictly[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i still can't conclude for any definite logical advantage of either position[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I tend to agree with Moon: if we have *different* mechanisms for direct citizen participation,[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: a referenda wouldnot be felt as "needed":[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: do u mean on the first qn moon? whether to have them or not?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: YES[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: oops, sorry[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ie. having "constitutional committees" working things out, and having them "free to join" by any willing citizen[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i am afraid important issues may fail to pass[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: also, the committeee proposal also allows for specilized input to help the RA[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: as things stand now the citizens are being left out of the decision making and before you answer faction meetings we are the only one to do so[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: All sorts of input, really. From the common citizen who wants to be heard,[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: which i, at least, would like to have in some areas[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: to the specialist who needs to give advice[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: indeed[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Yes...[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: yes, I like Moon's proposal very much.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: you see, i fear, as pat said, that we'll be stuck for ever in this referenda thing[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Well, you know what I think about the referenda, so I'm biased. On the other hand, I do worry about the lack of input from citizens in some cases ? and this would allow, through Moon's proposal, that citizens would be able to make "binding decisions"[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: and that is bad - first, because no participation , and second[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: well, the motive for this proposal was not principally citizen involvement, but a means to avoid the removal of the SCs powers to defend the constitution. but i'm intrigued by the idea that we could involve citizens more actively[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: because it is a challenge on the validity of the RA decisions[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: referenda are a rather passive way to do that[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: indeed[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ agrees at passivity[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: we should encourage pro-active citizen participation![/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: and as you see, the SPC has been working well[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn *bangs fist on the table* :)[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: hehe[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: though the SPC is an 'executive' committee, and these would be consultive[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Sorry. I got excited for a moment, it won't happen again :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: oh my! gwyn goes kruschchev :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ROFL ![/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Yes, I think that in many cases people's opinions are less considered in a mass referenda than in a smaller group where they have the opportunity to examine issues carefully.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Indeed, Jon.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: yup, it is really that[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Also, this model allows for a certain "spontaneity" as well ? citizens just come together, they discuss constitutional changes, they propose (together) a solution,[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: and this gets validated by the RA[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: so let's kill the referenda idea and work up proposals for active citizen involvement instead[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn cheers[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Da![/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Yea![/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I mean, "aye!"[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ah gwyn, not only for const matter, but also for regular legislative issues[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: that too.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: lol[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I agree, Moon, of course.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: let's keep ahead of our schedule then and move on to 3b - guild reform[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: just one thing more[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2w1z8ahm]: knock knock[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: even in case if a committee fails to have the three people in it[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: yes, moon?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Hi Diderot, welcome![/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2w1z8ahm]: hi guys sorry for interrupting you[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: that also is a clear sign to the RA that the matter is not urgent from the pov of the community[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: hiya Diderot .)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2w1z8ahm]: please continue .. I was just bringing along a guest to Neufreistadt who would like to witness a meeting in progress[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Kimio Aster[/b:2w1z8ahm]: hi all[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2w1z8ahm]: (beware Kimio .. if it can get a bit .. technical) :-)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Ah :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: hello kimio :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Hello, Kimio, welcome![/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Kimio Aster[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ok ....[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2w1z8ahm]: guys this is Kimio ... he's from Madrid and barely 3 days old :-)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Hi Kimio[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: hi dids, kimio[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2w1z8ahm]: but very curious[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Kimio Aster[/b:2w1z8ahm]: always nice to learn[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2w1z8ahm]: come on in Kimio[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: hola kimio :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Hola, Kimio, buenas noches :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Kimio Aster[/b:2w1z8ahm]: hola :-)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau sits down and listens[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Kimio Aster[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ok[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: and hi Didders1[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Diderot and Kimio, touch the boxes for notecards and permission to transcript your comments :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: (btw I should warn you that at 4 PM I'll have to go over to the Rathaus and discuss with the SC the latest constitutional crisis)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2w1z8ahm]: done[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami moves everyone on to item 3b - guild reform[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: lol, ok[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: yes[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i have a comment here as well, but maybe Jon wants to speak first[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: did everyone get a chance to read my last email on this? i replied to jon's a few hours ago[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Yes, and thanks Pat[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: sorry, no :([/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I did... :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: well, over to jon to reply/introduce[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I consider building and citizen education among the most important things we do in CDS[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I think we have gotten lost in other issues, to the point that we are really giving second priority to these.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: hear, hear :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I would like to see us revive the Guild in a new framework, to bring together our experts in design[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: and to provide the means for any citizen who wants to, to gain these skills.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: As a community we need this for growth.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: As a nation, we need it to affirm our status in excellence and quality.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: And as individuals we need this to regain focus on this shared 3d word.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Exactly.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: may I?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn looks as the Swiss as example for quality and excellence :)[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle listens to Moon[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ... well in chocolate and watches at least :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ok, Pat, this to answer a specific point on your mail[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle laughs lightly[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ;[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ;)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: you said that in your opinion, the Guild should become ttally private in scope[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: yes[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: but today, i was thinking on it[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: and i realized that[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: since ne of the base points of the CDS project is to promote a centre for excellency in design and content in SL[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: the linking of the Guild to the CDS[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: must be closer than just a territorial presence[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: and actually, it has to be a sort of hmmm[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Institute[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Yes![/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: so, agree with Jon's proposal thatwe do need a chartered guild, and some control[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: actually[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: as the old Guild was uncontrllable, it got too busy in government roles and missed this part[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I am worried that the RA is getting too much power and the checks and balances are being removed with nothing to replace them[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: not at all, ranma[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2w1z8ahm]: but the RA is hardly a homogenous entity :-)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: let's try to keep two issues separate[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: the RA is actually giving power away[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: one is the need for a guild 2.0 organisation and what form that should take[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I am sorry but please explain to me, how the power of the RA will be balanced?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: the second relates to ranma's point - should the guild be abolished? and if so, how?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: it is checked by the SC, and the judiciary branch is an independent branch[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: That is guild 1.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: The head of the RA recently told me to do as told or leave[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: can we stick with the first point? and come on to checks and balances in ten minutes or so?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: also, if you consider the committes proposal, you will see that the RA is asking for consultive input from teh citizens[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: and ok Pat[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I have said this before and will again, soon the RA will be the only power[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: chair on[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Yes, lets continue with point 1, which is most important in my view.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i have a comment on the proposal, and moon's defence of a 'state-sponsored' body[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant listens[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle listens[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i'm still not clear why this has to be 'state-sponsored'. i'm happy with the idea of an 'institute' and the kind of guild 2.0 you describe. i don't really see the need for the RA to set it up. i think i'd prefer to see more organisations arise out of[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: civil society[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: and be independent of the state[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: well, they would be autonomous, and specially financially autonomous[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Pat, do you mean that new sim regions would be developed by a private entity? How would they become democratic in that case?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: At this point, I must state, for the record, that the argument for either ? public or private ? must be *very strong*. Or else this proposal will fail, I guess.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: but the charter, with theemphasis on the educational and content making scope, must be clearly set, and atm the only way you can do it is by a RA-voted charter[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle agrees with Moon[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: do note that thecharter only brushes very lightly on internal organization and procedures[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: well jon, i think the new sims will be developed by this body in any case. what i'd like to see is the guild (or many competing guilds) develop and the RA choose from among competing visions when a new sim is being developed[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: only the enough to assure that there is responsability[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ah, i see your point[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: the guild would be simply building teh sim, like private contractors if we employed ppl outside the CDS[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Pat, we have barely enough builders for one guild. And if guilds were private why would the take projects that involve so much loss of potential profits?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: The amount of volunteer work going into CN is phnominal[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: surely the motives for involvement would be the same s they are now?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Also, you are asking each guild to take on much higher risk.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Asking them to do all the work needed to develop a proposal and then perhaps have all that come to nothing.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i just feel uncomfortable with these kind of state enterprises. the mistake we seem to keep making is for the govnt to colonise areas that belong to private enterprise[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Pat, I don't see that.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: If the guild is not identified with the CDS it is just another SL content developer.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: why volunteer at all?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Hmm[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: That point is certainly correct...[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Jon is absolutely right on the fact that we must aim at producing extra-quqlity content[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: well, the developers of the CN proposal did not know that their proposal would be the one chosen (or rhat it would be the only one). that didn't deter them, did it?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: teh CDS HAS teh structure for it[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Hmm[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Yes, they did know it would the only one. Of course, NFS might have decided not to build at all..[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: The other aspect of this is education.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau remembers taking secret pictures of up to three different competing proposals during the development of the CN proposal ... alas .. none made it to submission[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: providing a design education to any citizen who wants one[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ahem .. is this thing logged? :-)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: lol[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: yes[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: And we do that both for the citizen and with the idea that the community will benifit[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Aye, Diderot, it is :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2w1z8ahm]: education in my view would be a good argument for keeping the guild as a public service[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: in general, private organizations do not provide that kind of education to anyone who wants it.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: thank you Diderot :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: that's teh only sound argument i can see for making this a public body[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Indigo:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2w1z8ahm]: considering the strict theme-requirements we have for both our sims .. I'd say that most new residents would be in need of education at one level or other to be able to comply with the covenant in any other way than buying a prefab[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I think both are sound. And also it is quite possible, if the whole of the CDS design community gets involved with a guild (surely an important goal) there will be competing proposals debated within the guild.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i wouldnt die in a ditch over the disagreement so i suggest we move on ot consder teh second point[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: how does this affect the balance of power?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: On the second point lets consider our goal. We want to make space for the new guild. The old one is not workable.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: How do we get there? That is the question.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: What we have proposed is to assign the last remaining power of the GM and give it to the juducuary.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ... or SC?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: surely 'to the SC'?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: What DPU is thinking of proposing, is leaving the current system in place.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: The SC, sorry.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: wore than that, i'd say[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: they would leave something which is a hmmm[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: reduced guild, something that has no real function[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: do any of us get to join it ? under their proposal?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: In fact, if were were larger, there might even be a case for having the SC incude an auditor.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Ah, Pat, a good question.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: sort of proposal that tries to please both trojans and greeks... but that really doesn't solve a thing, and adds to confusion[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: From what I know, the idea would be to keep the old structure in place but make some room for something like our proposal.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: within the current guild.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: well, i would have liked to try to reform the guild. but sudane signed its death warrant by refusing to allow anyone else in[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Yes...[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Yes, I think that was intentional on her part. She fealt that we needed something different.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: That's teh way I read it as well :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i find giving the financial veto to the SC rather odd.. it doesn't fit with their other powers. i'm pretty sure claude will not go for it[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn had commented on that privately[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: with the same fears.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle[/b:2w1z8ahm]: In the sense that the SC handles legal matters, you might consider this an extension into financial law.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: someone needs to have it[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Personally, I think that the SC is not qualified to do a "financial veto"[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: ranma says it may make the RA stronger. i think it could be opposed because it makes the SC stronger - never popular[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: I agree, Ranma. The wuestion is ? who?[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: *question[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: hmmm, it's a good working solution. Here, for instance, we have an Exchequer Court that revises the budget[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: well I will not support making the RA almost complete power[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: giving[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: Hmm yes. This would be something better suited.[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Black:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2w1z8ahm]: i'm sorry, it feels like a fudge 'we have to find a place for the veto so.. whos' left to transfer it to?'[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: but Ranma, if you read carefully, you'll see that we are discussing now who can veto the RA :)[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Ranma hehe[/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkGreen:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2w1z8ahm]: but again, I'm biased :D[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: well the way the dissusion is working is to make it the only possible outcome[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2w1z8ahm][i:2w1z8ahm]Jon Seattle tries to make a SL copy of a RL excequer court, and gets a message that the copy fails![/i:2w1z8ahm][/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=Sienna:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Moon Adamant[/b:2w1z8ahm]: we can call for the making of an exchequer like that, but for a question of symmetry, it would respond to the SC[/color:2w1z8ahm]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2w1z8ahm][b:2w1z8ahm]Ranma Tardis[/b:2w1z8ahm]: one that answers to the RA?[/color:2w1z8ahm]

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Patroklus Murakami
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Transcript 2/2

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: not at all, we find that the best solution would be to have all teh 3 branches implied in teh budget[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: no, to the SC[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i'm gonna have to call time on this in a couple of minutes. do we need to have this settled today?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: this kills the third branch[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: proposal to LL: add "upload organization" to the file menu.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: so, Executive would propose a budget, Ra would vote it and SC would audit it[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: executive is under the control of the RA[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Indigo:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2wdz1fm3]: my how time flies when you're having fun[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Speaking of the SC... I sadly have to go away and drag Diderot with me.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: how would the Treasurer fit into the pattern?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I agree with Moon, I cannot see any other way.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Indigo:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I shall have to leave as well .. please take good care of Kimio for me[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: we are proposing a veto[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: bye gwyn, dids[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Come, come, dear Diderot :)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Kimio Aster[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I'm off as well.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Thanks and bye Diderot, Gwyn[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Indigo:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Diderot Mirabeau[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes Dean[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: teh Treasurer is a civil servant, so part of teh Executive branch[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: are u discussing the judicary situation?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Kimio Aster[/b:2wdz1fm3]: This was really interesting for me ...[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Aye, Pat.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: can not happen when the position is under the direct control of the ra[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Kimio Aster[/b:2wdz1fm3]: cu ![/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: the executive has autonomy to organize themselves on this[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: glad u found it interesting kimio[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: see you Kimio![/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I'm sorry for the overlapping meetings... but... this is rather urgent, and the SC has huge problems in getting a meeting time for all[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2wdz1fm3]: have fun Kimio, and take care![/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes and the ra can remove if the executive does what displeases them[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: it is thus no "veto" authority[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: are we getting close to a conclusion on Guild?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Ranma, i am talking SC[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i'm not sure we are lol![/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: SC vetoes[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I heard executive[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: no[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I think we have limited time to put forward a proposal.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: executive proposes budget, since they have the dat - how many citizens, how much does a sim cost, etc[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: We can always leave the initiative to the DPU (again..)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: RA approves - or not - and SC audits the WHOLE process[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: hmmm[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i would very much like teh CSDF to become more pro-active[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well, it's already there as a basis for discussion so i think u have claimed the intitiative[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I think the SC could develop an auditing capability. The only other option would be to create a new branch, and that sounds difficult.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: these issues are ones the RA as a whole will have[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i suggest we move on[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes, also there is discussion on size of the state... and that would add fuel to it[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I disagree with you about the initiative. I suspect the DPU will come up with their proposal shortly.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: ok, let me read praetor[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: actually covenants is next :)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: ah, as i thought[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: oh sorry[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: zillion windows :)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Ah, before we move on, I would like to call a vote on the Guild proposal as presented.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Moon, would you second?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: in favour, in order to get teh discussion going[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: others?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I vote for it.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: aye[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: aye[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: ranma?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: is this to table the dissusion on the guild?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: no, to propose it[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well I vote no[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: ok, then we can move on. the proposal is approved[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Thank you![/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: :)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: is the covenants issue still live? some were concerned by prohibition on 'commercial pornography' which i thought had always been in NFS[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: it was[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: btw[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes, it is.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well what is the defination of it?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: is there a proposa before the RA on this[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: an explanation here[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: *proposal[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][i:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami listends to moon[/i:2wdz1fm3][/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: *listens[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: tehse convenants were drafted by myself as we near the completion of the sim, based on[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: a work of compiling and summarizing that Claude did some months ago[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: from my pov, there may be a working definition of pornography[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: that has been used for teh last two years[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: so hmmm[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: not sure if this is up to discussion at all[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: but maybe a bit low-priority?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well CN is a very different theme than neu and the web page promised something other than living in "prude" sim[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I am not sure how prude NFS is really.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: but i dont think this is necessaril prudish. i don't consider myself a prude but i'm happy for the ban on porn to remain. i don't want to see it in my second life[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I think in both cases no one is looking to regulate private things in any way.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: surely it is the worst place in SL if you just want a bit of privacy... everyone keeps coming around for a bit of chat .D[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: this is the problem, what is "porn" to you is not to me[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: mind you, CN is going exactly the same way[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: oh i agrre that it can be very subjective ranman[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Moon, yes, there is that![/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: *ranma[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I think that we are not going to solve that one. The question I have, is is there a move to change things for CN?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: no[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well should not the residents of CN decide this?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: this is an overall CDS covenant[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i just think about the counter example. what if we took out the prohibition? would it be okay for me to have ten foot high fisting picture on the side of my house?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Moon, indeed it is.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Hmmm.. I don't think I would visit often in that case.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well rannma, maybe we should wait and ask the CN citizens what they want (my point on the next item)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: hehe, i'll keep that in mind jon :)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well the web page promised a more open enviroment[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: shall we move to that then?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes, lets.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][i:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant has to go and move a villa down too :)[/i:2wdz1fm3][/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes, let's move on to discussion of local govnt and the praetor proposal[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: and we have a lot of thinsg to discuss[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: let me hand my ownproposal around[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Navy:2wdz1fm3][i:2wdz1fm3]Multi Gadget v1.49.3 by Timeless Prototype[/i:2wdz1fm3][/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: mind you, this hasn't even been discussed[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: One note. The name prartor was used for a judge, and sometimes a miltary commander. I am not sure if it is the best title to use.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: it's really just a draft of what could be a proposal t counterbalance teh DPU proposal[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: caesar?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: eeek, even worse :)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][i:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami reads[/i:2wdz1fm3][/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: let me introduce it[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: basically, in our model of an unified republic[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: this would make provision for local circles[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: that would elect reps to the RA[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: thus making two chambers in one, without adding to the structure of teh state[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: it would also allow citizens a more participative role[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: since everyone could ran for local rep[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: and would make the RA more dynamic, as there would be a timeshift in madates[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: thus altering the balance of the house at midterm[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: This is a really really interesting proposal. I think it is worth trying.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well, it is just a draft[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: My mathematical side wants to immedeatly run off and run experiments..[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: it could solve a lot of problems.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: when we discover the updated verion of the Const :) it needs a further analysis[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: The innovation here is to include both geographic and representitives at large in a single body.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i'd like to give it some thought. there are many attractive aspects and it fulfills our manifesto commitment. are we agreed that Claudes' proposal is a const amend and not a bill and therefore needs a 2/3 majority?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yup[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: it is, clearly[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Yes, very clearly.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: it calls for the election of an individual, and concedes state powers to that role[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i think he realises that. prob why he hasn't answered my post properly[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: btw, a side comment[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i realized today[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: how would your proposal affect local zoning decisions?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: go on moon[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: that as CN fills[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: the RA will grow too[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: but i didn't have time to go and inform myself on that[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: afk[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: this to say we must also begin thinking on next election[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: but this is CSDF business :)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes, we must.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: we may be running to 3, ideally 4 seats at the next RA[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: and we must begin to think on campaign, platform, etc[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: oh yes. i agree with that moon :)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: especially as xmas and new year will eat into prep time[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: anyway, to answer your question[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i have been thinking[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: and the praetor that Claude suggests[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: we should propose that he/she is a civil servant[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: that is[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: returns objects, checks things, etc[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: so, clearly part of teh executive[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Ah, plywood?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: aah, neat. under the chancellor then?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: about decision of local matters[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: again this position is a pawn of the ra[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: that would fall on the local reps[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: why so? ranma[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: which could be bugged by the community to press matters[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: since the job is dependant apon approval of the ra and if this person does not do as instructed by the ra will be removed by them[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: in away, it is something more smilar to a westminster model[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: but ranma, if the RA runs over the desires of citizens in CN or NFS they will lose an election. what would u suggest instead?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: but with the timeshift of american model, and the agglomeration of teh two houses in one[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I dont think that will happen, all they have to do is have enough votes for majority[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: also a little something is missing[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i'm still hoping that CN citizens will not *want* local govnt. for 40 ppl out of a community of 80 or so it seems like overkill[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Yes, I agree completly Pat[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: in the UK and Japan a vote of confidence can be called for if the goverment becomes too unpopular[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i think this allows for the two things - overall and local - withut being overkill[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: it is missing in the cds[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well ranma, that would mean a vote in the RA. in the UK if the govnt loses such a vote then an election is called. did u have that in mind? or a way for the electorate to recall an RA if they become unpopular?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well that is what is missing[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well, thsi proposal allows another way to do that[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: like what has happened in teh US tthis week[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: how?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: an impopular government gets a contrary vote in midterm by the electorate[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: by displacing the lections of local reps here as well[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: different, also the executive power is the US has not been affected also control of the senate can change if on of the two independants changes his mind[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yu would pass a yellow card on RA in midterm[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: one[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i'm attracted to the idea of recall elections so that would be a good idea to develop ranma. i suggest you work up a proposal anc circulate it for discussion[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: indeed[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: we only have 20 mins left. can we take our final item?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: sure[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i am totally blank on Jud[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i know what has been happening, of course[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: the spat over teh judiciary continues.... it's teh gift that keeps on giving :)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: lol[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i can't decide if this is a dreadful powergrab by ash or whether publius and others are getting upset over nothing. views?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I guess I experessed my opinion as satire.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Ashcroft is rather full of himself[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I hope the judiciary succeeds, I really do.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: he is, but that's not necessarily a hanging offence :)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: didnt say it was[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I want, a year from now, to look at all this and say to myself, that was really worth it.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: So, Ashcroft, go and prove my satire wrong! Please!![/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i would hate to find that two months of work would be lost in a deadlock, i must say[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i'm uncomfortable with his self-declaration as Chief Judge and some of the other stuff - wanting to keep finances separate etc just smacks of a power grab[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: exactly.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes that bothers me as well[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: very uncomfortable.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: aye[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i'm glad that publius and others have taken it upon themselves to rein ashcroft in. on balance, i hope they succeed. but i also hope the judiciary can begin work[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: we've put a helluva lot of work into this[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: indeed![/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes, it must if it is to mean anything. And it much earn, from scratch, the confidence of the public.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: And power grabs are not consistant with that IMO.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i think we're all agreed on this. no need for further discussion?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well who has the power to apoint the chief judge?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][i:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle nods[/i:2wdz1fm3][/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: nope[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: ranma, i got lost on that a long time back![/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: any other business?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Ranma Tardis[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well he should not be able to[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: No, a good meeting.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: we covered a *lot*[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: the firt Chief Jude was picked up by the SC and confirmed by the RA[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: (no other business I mean)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: but from now on[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: the Chief Judge is elected by other judeges[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: judges*[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: and very good meeting indeed[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Pat, one thing nly[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: timing for these proposals to be presented?[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: well, the local representativity one is not even a proposal, just a draft[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: with everyting we have on i'm not sure i can keep u to a tight schedule :)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: lol, untill the 15th is compplex indeed :)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: would be good to have a positive alternative to the 'praetor' in time for next week's RA (assuming there is one)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: but jon can stop the Praetor[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i think we can[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: i'll try to find time to comment on you notecard via email over this weekend[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: contributions will be welcome :)[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: I can work on that proposal a bit this weekend.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: lol, ok, i can email it too, maybe more practical[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes.[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: thanks :D[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][i:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant smiles at Jon[/i:2wdz1fm3][/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Black:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2wdz1fm3]: ok, shall i turn off the recorder? seems we're done[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=Sienna:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Moon Adamant[/b:2wdz1fm3]: please do :) thanks for chairing[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][i:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle smiles at Moon[/i:2wdz1fm3][/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: yes[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2wdz1fm3][b:2wdz1fm3]Jon Seattle[/b:2wdz1fm3]: Yes, thanks Pat[/color:2wdz1fm3]
[color=DarkRed:2wdz1fm3][i:2wdz1fm3]The meeting closed at 16:51 Linden time.[/i:2wdz1fm3][/color:2wdz1fm3]

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