CSDF General Meeting 19 Oct 3pm - Transcript

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Patroklus Murakami
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CSDF General Meeting 19 Oct 3pm - Transcript

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

The next General Meeting of the CSDF will be on [b:jywhaxw3]Thursday 19 Oct at 3pm[/b:jywhaxw3].

Location: [b:jywhaxw3]The Red House[/b:jywhaxw3] on the Lowland Road, Neufreistadt.

Please add suggested agenda items to my preliminary list here on the forums.

[b:jywhaxw3]Agenda[/b:jywhaxw3]
[list:jywhaxw3]1. Welcome to new members

2. Promoting civil society & non-governmental activity in the CDS

3. Legislative/Constitutional Issues
-Guild reform
-Referenda
-Commonwealth

4. Day/Time of Meetings

5. Any other business[/list:u:jywhaxw3]

This is an open meeting so all are welcome to attend
Last edited by Patroklus Murakami on Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Patroklus Murakami
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Transcript 1/3

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

[color=Black:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Sienna:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Local-Position: (100, 78, 128)[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkGreen:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Meeting on 2006-10-19[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Those present[/b:2vc5tbfg]: [/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle is in the chair.[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: by typing /99end or /99stop[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: can't remember which![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Okay[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: one of each?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: it's /99 end[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: could everybody touch the recorder to indicate consent to be recorded?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hmmm, i have touched it three times...[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: we keep a transcript of meetings so that other people can read what we've discussed.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: and it doesn't tell me that i have already touched it[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: try right click and touch[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: it works for me[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hmmm, no[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ah well, you have my consent[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ok[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: there's an agenda in teh red notecard giver[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Hmm.. works for me[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: item 1, welcome to new members[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: we've had a couple of new ppl join, let me get teh names[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: oh :D[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Oh good :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Lord Stoklitsy and Aleister Ellison and Curtis Rhea[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: WElcome to them![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Indeed.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hopefully we'll see them at a meeting or in neufreistadt soon[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: next, item 2. civil society[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: one moment[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: yes jon?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: oh, he's gone all floppy on us :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: well, the reason i wanted to put this on the agenda is...[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: back[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: sorry, in the RL office, someone came in to ask me a question[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ok, understand[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: wb :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i was just saying that i put civil society on the agenda because... i'm kinda bored by being in neufreistadt lately![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Hi Gwyn! :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: oh?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hi gwyn, welcome[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hello :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hiya gwynnie[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Sorry for being so late[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: and for missing so many images :P[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i'm concerned that i'm spending a lot of effort discussing legislative and constitutional issues[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: when i came here to find community rather than a debating club[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I agree Pat.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: there needs to be more to do in nfs than simply talk about politics[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I certainly agree.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: which is why i wanted to talk about how we, as teh csdf, might promote civil society in nfs[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn naturally agrees as well....[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I do want to galvanize our Esperanto group into action to host some events.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i agree as well[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Yay Gxeremio![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: That would be wonderful![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: by that, i mean religious, political, cultural etc groups[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: oh, cool Gxer! :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: brb. sorry, interruption[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn could announce that a religious group is "being formed" as we speak... ;)[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: How are the church services going Gwyn?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: yes, GX, I see the Esperantists as one of teh main forces in civil society right now[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: views?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: what religious group?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Indeed, Gxeremio ? my biggest issue right now is the time. The only day I know I've got always free is Sunday, 3 PM ? but so does everybody else who sets that time for events in Neufreistadt :P[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: well Moon[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: it's some sort of "Church preservation Society"[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ah, for the church of NFS?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Aye.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: We might expand to the Temples in NFS :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: *CN[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hehe[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i heard someone has been pasting some masonic symbols on it... :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i've started a quasi-religious group in second life :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hehe[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: the SL chapter of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence - an order of queer nuns[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: lol[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ROFL[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: back[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Olive:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Felix Duesenburg[/b:2vc5tbfg]: :D[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: You've missed the best, Jon :-)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: GX caught me trying out my habit the other week[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ooooh[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: :D[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: but that's another story...[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Yes, the word "awkward" comes to mind.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I hope that gets posted on the Democrat ;)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: lol![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: lol[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: We're not that kind of paper. :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: reading back.. :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle laughs[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Awww :D[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: anyway... there must be other cultural activities we can promote[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: lol Gxer :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I had this odd idea, I don't know how practical it might be.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: once i can work out how to broadcast from my parcel i'd love to do an opera night[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: yes jon?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: well... i would like to one day build a small italian restaurant as a pastafarian chapel[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Especially since in Colonia Nova, we are building a sim based on classical Rome.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: That we might put on particpatory plays using CN as a backdrop[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i *love* that idea jon.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: oooh[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I wish if we could get Garnet to write a play again[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i think nfs has been mentioned as a good backdrop for a murder mystery type event as well[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: but... well... Garnet is busy with her RL job, which I'm not allowed to say what it is ;)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hmm[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: "murder mystery"[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hmm[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: "Who killed Ulrika?"[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: :D[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: lol![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Good idea Jon. Reminds me of an idea I had a few years ago about a genre of theatre in which only a few points were scripted, the who audience would be part of the show, and the repertory actors would have to find a way to move to the next plot point[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: throughout the show. kind of improv, kind of dinner theatre.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn actually gets scared of those "participatory" theatre events,[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: but I agree that they are an excellent idea![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Gwyn, why scared?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Oh, iRL I mean.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I pay people to entertain me ;)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle smiles and nods[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hehe[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Olive:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Felix Duesenburg[/b:2vc5tbfg]: :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: But SL being about people interacting with people,[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: a friend of mine had a mystery murder birthday party and it was greeat fun[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I guess those types of events would actually be very fun to have![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum sings, "People...who don't need people...are the haaaappiest people..."[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: haha[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Yes, I think so.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: u know, we should do this. it would be fun and god knows we need a little fun in nfs[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: They could range from just interesting events, to real examininations of themes of life and art.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I agree[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn totally agrees with Pat[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i agree too[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: when would be a good time to call a meeting to plan it? given that many of us are v busy with colonia nova right now[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: how about flebuary 38?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ROFL[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: lol[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: oh gx[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: yup[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: My agenda tells me I'm free by then :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: 2039...[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: sorry i'm a little punchy this evening :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: well, it there's no good time... i'll jus call a meeitng for sunday[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ... but only between the 29th of February and the 1st of March, though ;)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: but this is a business meeting.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Sunday would be fine.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Sunday is fine as well. I assume at 3 PM? :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hmmm there may happen a SPC meeting on sunday[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Ah, but SPC is a 1 SLT[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: well, the SPC is at 1[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: so 3pm sunday it is![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: lol[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: is that a problem for u tho gwyn?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: RIght :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: No![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: lol[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: See why there aren't any more Church meetings? ;)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ok, i'll post a notice in 'events'[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i think we can move on to item 3 but i'd like us to consider 'civil society' issues on a regular basis at our meetings[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: it'll prevent us from getting too RA and legislation-focussed[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Pat, I think that is a wonderful idea.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: yes, i agree[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: so, item 3. legislation![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: But then, I'm on an "agreeing day"[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: duh[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ah, drat...[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: In order?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: what should we tackle first? i've put down guild, referenda and commonwealth[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Jon is there a RA this week?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: because i won't be able to make it[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Hmmm.. I think Claude mentioned that there was not, but we should check.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I can make it in any case.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: is the guild the most pressing issue to discuss? you will note that i've now had the brush off *threee times*[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: oh?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: sorry Pat, have been way busy[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: *3*?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I think we should discuss it.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: what has happened?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I would like us to present a proposal for the guild.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I'd also like us to talk about Commonwealth if we get to it.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i asked sudane a second time, she said 'i'm going to post on the forums'. she did, i responded and i'm still not in teh guild[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: no one is except gwyn, sudane and claude[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Jon, what can we propose?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: and sudane is denying she wields any kind of 'governmetn power'. it's an utter mess[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: yes, and neither Claude or myself are able to do anything about it.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i think there are two major questions[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: *nor[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: 1. veto powers - who gets them?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Yes, will I think that shows that the guild has become more of a government and political organ at this point.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: yes moon, that's a major issue. and 2?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle listens to Moon[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: 2. proposed functions of teh guild[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: will it be the school as Jon has proposed?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: is it a trader's association?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i'm leaning towards abolishing the damn thing at the moment[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: \ah[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: also another question[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Well, Moon's #1 point would still need to be addressed.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: don't forget that executive is still in trial period[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: see what i mean?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: well, the way i see it is. our proposal to remove teh guild's exec powers and put them in a true exec branch is the right course of action[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hm[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: but the exec is on a trial period at the mo[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: indeed[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: When I spoke to Justice when working on the executive, I said that I thought the guild would no longer be viable after the trial period. I think that is where we are.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: The Guild now only has some limited powers, but still keeps the veto.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: so there's little we can do to alter the consl balance right now[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: And yes, Jon.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: you're right jon[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: If someone tried to install the guild as a political organ again, we would have a political crisis because of the people who have been turned down.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: there is another option....[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant nods at Jon[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle listens to Pat[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn listens to PAt.[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: gwyn is a master of the guild, u could just recruit us as journeymen or apprentices or whatever[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: lol Jon[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Ah Pat, hmm[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hehehe[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I'd have to see how it works, though.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I mean,[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hmmmm[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I'm not sure who approves new apprentices to the Guild and how.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: well, the guild has no procedures[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: nah, it's up to const ammends, i am afraid[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: so i'm not sure how 'secure' that would be[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: also[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: There are some, yes, Pat.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Just buried in the old forums.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: oh really? might be worth digging them up then[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: because if you remove veto powers from teh guild... why do you need the const to refer to it?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i agree moon but i'm not happy to be in limbo for six months on the guild while the exec proves itself/ i guess the alternative is to develop a consl amendment that solves teh problem...[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: yup[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Yes![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I agree[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: and no worries... you'll spend teh rest of the time till the sunset discussing it[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle laughs[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: well, perhaps..[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: how important is it to us? can we afford to put it on teh back burner?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Well[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I don't feel very comfortable[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: on having a single person with veto powers on the budget[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i confess right now i am puzzling how to distribute the veto powers[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: even if that person is friendly and wise Sudane.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ... who also happens to be the Treasurer ;)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Unless, of course,[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: of course... but one must make provisions for unfriendly and unwise people, lol[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: that we move the veto power to the Treasurer ;)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: and abolosh the Guild as a branch of government.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: *abolish even[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: who appoints the Treasurer?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hmm[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: RA I think, I would need to check it, just a moment[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hmmm, won't work, then[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: that's what i thought. it doesn't seem entirely safe though, does it?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: No :([/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: the RA could easily appoint 'their' choice who will do as they're told[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Ah. I can't log in to the wiki right now...[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: i need to leave in about ten mins btw. hope u guys discuss day/time later :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: day time for what sorry?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Ah, for meetings.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: for these meetings[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: oh[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Pat, what is your concern about day and time?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Ah. The CSDF meetings?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: well, this time is 11pm to 1am for me. that's difficult for me to keep up.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Ok.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ah, yes[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle nods[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: if we could find an alternative time that worked for other ppl i'd really appreciate it[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Perhaps on weekends?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: 3 PM Sundays![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: No wait[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: LOL[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle lol Gwyn[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: weekends would be better. but RA meetings are on sat at 4am[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: lol gwyn[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: lol, yes[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Well, I'm flexible myself and technically only have to sleep from 7 PM to 1 AM SL time ;)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I was thinking we could meet on sunday and discuss the week after. Though a lot of things can happen on the forums before the RA..[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: would saturday before 4am (RA time) work for ppl[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: That's always a possibility, Jon[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: And for me 2 AM on Saturdays would work, of course.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ... with lots of coffee ;)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: we could do that jon, but i think the discussion might be outdated by the next week[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: But that would be insanely early (or late!) for our US friends[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: yes, too early for Jon, i think[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: and 2am sat would clash with my sat morning class[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Oh![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Hmm[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: is fri at 3pm a possilbilty? it's easier for me to do a late friday night than thurs[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Well, 4 am SLT is 6 AM my time. I usually wake at 5 AM and spend an hour catching up on the forum and any new legislative proposals.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: good Lord.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Indeed :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant smiles at Jon[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Oh, I usually wake up early in any case.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn pities poor Jon[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle smiles brightly at Moon[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: well, i do a bit of forum reding too before 4 AM SLT on saturdays[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn does a bit of *sleeping* before 4 AM SLT on Saturdays ;)[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hehe[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: lol[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: sleep... sleep... i remember sleeping .. :D[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: How are Friday's at 3pm?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: fine for me[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Perfect for me.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Yes, Friday could work for me.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: well, let's try that for next week and see how it goes[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Ok.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: thanks for being flexible and considerign this[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: ok :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: yw pat, lol[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: So can we chat about the Commonwealth?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkRed:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2vc5tbfg]: :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: my work was beginning to suffer on fri mornings[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Aw poor Pat.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn pats on Pat's back[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: well, referenda is technically next :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: but i need to leave u now[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: hope to see u all again soon[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Sleep tight, Pat :=[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Indigo:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2vc5tbfg]: bye[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: see you Pat, sleep well![/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Ah, poor Pat.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: SL is worse than jet lag for your health ;)[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle smiles and nods[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Jon, you chairing now?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Lets talk for a moment about Refferenda[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Should we tackle the remaining two topics next?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkOrange:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2vc5tbfg]: Ok.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: since this is going to come up next meeting.[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][i:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant tries to remember what has already been discussed[/i:2vc5tbfg][/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=Navy:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Jon Seattle[/b:2vc5tbfg]: I supose I am unless you would like to?[/color:2vc5tbfg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2vc5tbfg][b:2vc5tbfg]Moon Adamant[/b:2vc5tbfg]: no no no, please do :)[/color:2vc5tbfg]

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Patroklus Murakami
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Forum Wizard
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Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: Neufreistadt, Colonia Nova and Locus Amoenus and Locus Amoenus

Transcript 2/3

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Does anyone here have a good argument for or against this proposal? I am not yet sure, but I have some doubts.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I do, lol[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Olive:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Felix Duesenburg[/b:2k2nh6r6]: folks, i have to leave... thanks for letting me listen in. this is an interesting project[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I'll have to pick up the notecard again, just one second.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Olive:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Felix Duesenburg[/b:2k2nh6r6]: thx gxeremio for the invitation[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: And sure, Felix, thanks for being with us here![/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Thanks for joining us Felix![/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Olive:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Felix Duesenburg[/b:2k2nh6r6]: have a nice meeting[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: thanks felix, for joining us :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: thanks, have fun :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Bye Felix :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: ah, too late again[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle listens to Gwyn[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Well[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I will only repeat myself over and over again, but perhaps I can think a bit on each separate issue...[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: 1) What is the purpose of the referendum really?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: A) Make amendments harder[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle nods[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: B) Having another way to put checks on legislative procedures[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: C) More citizen's participation on the public processes[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Then...[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: hmmm, also make the constituionatl matter hmm stronger?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Green:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Cedric Aderdeen forgot to knock[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: 2) What advantages will it bring over the current model?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: lol welcome Cedric :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Green:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Cedric Aderdeen meekly closes the door and knocks[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Green:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Cedric Aderdeen Mewls Softly[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: A) Slower approvals, allowing better thinking on issues[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Cedric, feel free to join us :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: This is a CSDF meeting, a poltical faction in NFS[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: B) Preventing RA/SC to act in tandem[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Hi Ced.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Green:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Cedric Aderdeen[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Hiyas![/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: C) Forcing the RA to think more on "laws" and less on "constitutional changes"[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: hello Cedric :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: 3) What are the referendum's strongest points?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: A) People feel involved[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: B) People are able to prevent a government to go crazy on changes[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: C) All citizens have a *direct* participation on democracy, and not only a representative participation.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle listens to Gwyn[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: 4) Weakest points?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: A) Degeneration on "base democracy" ? where nobody agrees[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: *direct democracy[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: B) NFS becomes conservative (think Switzerland!) and does not adapt to change[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Hi Dnate :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Teal:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Dnate Mars[/b:2k2nh6r6]: hi[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: hiya dnate :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: C) Uninformed citizens will vote on emotional matters, not political ones.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Hi Dnate[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Welcome :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Yes, B, that we might not adapt, is my greatest concern.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn hushes now for a bit.[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: well, i think B is a grave concern[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Teal:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Dnate Mars[/b:2k2nh6r6]: sorry I am late :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: people are naturally resistant to change[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle smiles at DNate, np![/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: They are indeed.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: so... issue there is balance really[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: The ones who are not,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: will always be a minority.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: oth, I am very much in favor of things that promote greater participation[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: The ones who are resistant to change may either vote "no", or simply not vote,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: in either case, the referenda will never pass[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: ah, yes, that's also another thing... binding referenda[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Participation, yes :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Ah yes[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: This proposal is for a binding referendum on constititutional changes.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: ie.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: people directly participating on legislative matters.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: "Advisory" referenda are something completely different ? I have absolutely nothing against those.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Sort of an "official poll" to know what people think.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: yes, but those can easily be made even through group tools[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Example: "What should be the name of the over-arching government of Neuferistadt and Colonia Nova?" We did that once.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Yes, I think I would be much happier with an advistory referenda[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: In that case, why not just wait until election time to poll citizens at the same time they vote?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: i must say that[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: i am in two minds about this[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: on one side, i am a constitutional iconoclast :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle laughs lightly[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: i would like to have a provision for regular revisions of teh Const, say, two weeks in each legislature, so the RA could actually schedule those discussions[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: otoh, i observe what i see here (RL) with referenda[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: only the politically compromised vote[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: the electoral base as a rule ignores them[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: and they fail to be binding[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: of course[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: the NFS population is very diverse from theRL one: it is smaller and has greater participation[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: also is more homogeneous in terms of political compromise[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: so i think: maybe tehy coudl work?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Moon ? that is something slightly different,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: ie. not introducing the concept of referenda,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: but of constitutional revision :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: yes, lol, i know[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Which, I think, is the point here.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: just to say i am not constitutionally conservative[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: and as i referred in last RA[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: the Const is already the hardest thing to change in our political sys[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: since it needs a ualified vote in one branch[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: and teh ratification of a second branch[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Teal:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Dnate Mars[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I am sorry guys, but I have to run :/[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Nice to see you Dnate :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Bye bye for now, Dnate :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: bye Dnate :9[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: this to say[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: that the referenda introduce really a change in the system[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle nods[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Well, I still have some doubts. Lets move on to commonwealth?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: lol, doubts yes![/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: but please, move on[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gxeremio, did you want to say something about your proposal? You do know that we took have taken a stand about supporting a republic.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: sorry afk[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: need to be for a minute...can you move on and come back?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: sure, we'll wait for you[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I can say a few words[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I see us as needing two kinds of growth.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: in my opinion, right now, we are too small to be an effective federation.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant listens[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I do think we do want a federal structure, but each component of that structure should be much larger than the 30 - 40 members we have now.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: So really we should hrown within our system before we start to create divisions. At the same time, I think a place where we can reasonably[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Agreed....[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: have a looser organization is with the Franches.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: agreed![/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: but the Franches proposal that has been voted is solely for individuals[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: of course, i think that the group land act is also a good way to promote that looser organization[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Yes, but a franch can be occupied by groups if they first become citizens.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant looks at gwyn's sign[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: indeed.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: lol gwyn[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle lol Gwyn[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Though I do hope Gxeremio can adress some of these issues.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: hope so as well[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: oh, i hadn't seen that image yet[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: ok back[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: wb :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: my wife is traveling and her plane was having some problems and had to go back to the airport.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Ah. Gxe, do you need to go?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: oh :([/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: No it's okay.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: We talked on the phone some.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Just wanted to give her my full attention, you know. :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle listens to Gxeremio[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: OK so what questions or observations do you have about the idea of a Commonwealth[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: of course Gxer :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gxeremio, if you read back a little, that may be a start.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Well, the issue is mostly ? why such a huge structure for so little people? ;) (and yes, read back :) )[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: yes[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: OK. Well let me start by pitching the idea to you as if it already existed and Nstadt was invited to join it.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: i must say also i would like to hear your proposals on commonwealth, Gxe[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle listens to Gxeremio[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: The democratic experiment in Nstadt is admirable. What would benefit you in associating with other democratic governments?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: You would want a way to expand the borders of your enforcable contracts, to have more people with whom you can reliably do business.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: You would want it not to be too burdensome in the requirements of membership - you don't want to be a vassal state of some other group, and you want to be able to keep your traditions and try new things with your govt as you see fit.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: You would want to make sure your interests are represented, even if you were a smaller member of this Commonwealth.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: None of these things are possible for people joining us as franchulates, but they are all possible under my Commonwealth proposal.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant listens to Gxeremio very interetedly[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Hmm[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gxe[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: is yoru commonwealth a federation or a confederation ?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: It is infinitely scalable - the number of reps is related to the number of member governments and at-large citizens, and the number of Judicial officials is determined by the Legislature.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Moon, those terms are used in different ways by different people. I would describe it as more of a confederation, though it is strong and flexible enough to enforce its will when needed.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gxeremio, right now SL is a world where there are really, just about no other democratic sims.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: There are, however, clear ways to terminate membership if needed, after a process of determining that all debts were paid up.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Jon, I submit that the reason for that is people have very little encouragement to try democratic governance. My proposal helps give some incentives for that.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gxeremio, are you talking more about franches and similar arangements or about sims we create like Colonia Nova?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I could go either way. To be honest, I think it would be great if CN had the independence to try its own system, perhaps based more on Roman law.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: But I don't mind if "member governments" are more than one sim large.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant nods[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I just think the CN expansion is a good and practical way to encourage innovation.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: What are the common elements that will keep a loose organization tied together? Especially with the rate of change in SL and the fact that many of the geograpic reasons for association really do not exist?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gxeremio ? just for me as areference ? you've posted your proposal on the forums?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Yes.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Ok.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I'm perhaps 100 posts or so behind in the forums, I surely need to catch up :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: and me :([/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Jon. Good points. And those are issues that I think our current system is not addressing adequately. The ties that bind are a common vision for democracy, a Legislature comprised of 2 members of each member government and a proportionate representatio[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: n of "at-large" citizens, an Executive directly elected by the people of the Commonwealth, and a Judiciary empowered to interpret Commonwealth laws and settle disputes.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: bicameral sys?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Yoge, hello :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gxeremio, but what will the legislature do?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: namaste Yoge! :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Unicameral in my first draft, to keep it simple and clear.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Blue:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Yogeswari Padar[/b:2k2nh6r6]: hi all![/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Hello Yoge! :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Blue:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Yogeswari Padar[/b:2k2nh6r6]: good to see you, it's been a while :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle smiles brightly at Yoge[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: The Legislature will set overall laws about IP, contracts, and other issues that go across sim lines. Remember that the reps in the Legislature have a clear constituency - their member governments.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Hi Yoge.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: In other words, there would be 2 reps whose only concern was the well-being of the people of Nstadt.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I notice that many of our proposals in the RA, other than structural changes, are really about land use and management. I assume that under your model those issues would be local?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Precisely.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Ooops.. I think we lost Portugual.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: The Commonwealth wouldn't collect land fees.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Blue:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Yogeswari Padar[/b:2k2nh6r6]: whoops, looks lke we lost portugal[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Dang.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Should we wait?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle lol Yoge, great minds. :)[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Blue:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Yogeswari Padar[/b:2k2nh6r6]: ha ha[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Yes, they may be back shortly.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle hugs Moon[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: wb![/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Blue:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Yogeswari Padar[/b:2k2nh6r6]: the place looks good, jon[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: stupid isp---[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: thanks :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle smiles at Gwyn[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant hugs Jon[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Blue:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Yogeswari Padar[/b:2k2nh6r6]: wb[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: thanks, thanks :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Sorry, back.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: So, Gxeremio, here is one of my issues. Right now the SL economy is mainly crafts and land.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Blue:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Yogeswari Padar[/b:2k2nh6r6]: what happened?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Oh, ISP dropped our connection, Yoge :-D[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Blue:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Yogeswari Padar[/b:2k2nh6r6]: :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: isp changes DNS to prepare for happy hour[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: There are very few economic entities that are large or even medium sizes.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Well... what I was typing,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: is that that model of the COmmonwealth[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: is not even for the CDS to *decide*[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=SlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Rudy Ruml[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Hi folks. I dare to show my face after insulting all of your efforts on the forum.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Hello Rudy :D[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: That's true Jon. But what if I want to enter into a contract with a builder for a custom build? Or with an entertainer? Or a writer for my paper? Right now contracts between us are only as good as the notecard they're written on.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: lol[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: hi.)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: how so? :)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][i:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn doesn't read the forums since early October ;)[/i:2k2nh6r6][/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Ah, Rudy, what did you do?![/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: hehe[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gwyn, my suggestion is for the CDS to become the Commonwealth.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Ah[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I understand,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=SlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Rudy Ruml[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Nothing except had a prostate biopsy.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: but it's not our purpose to devise such a model![/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=SlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Rudy Ruml[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Hope yo women never have one.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Why not?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Oh Rudy ? I hope nothing is wrong with you![/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: and lol[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Well[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: oh, i hope you're well?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: the looser the ties,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: the more reasonable it is[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=SlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Rudy Ruml[/b:2k2nh6r6]: No, no cancer was spotted. But undignifieid, if you know what I mean. And all the nurses that gatherd around.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: to get similarly-aligned groups to get together[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: instead of having one imposing the rules,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: and the others joining it.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: sorry to hear that Rudy :([/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Well that's why I say it would be cool to have CN be a charter member of the Commonwealth of Democratic States as a member government in its own right.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=SlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Rudy Ruml[/b:2k2nh6r6]: My face is still red. sorry for interrupting.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Ah Gxeremio. I see your point,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: but I guess it's too late for that,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: NFS has already bought the sim ;)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: And the creation of such a group would surely spur others (such as my own Esperanto group) to action, as well as making a way for at-large citizens to be part of the system as well.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: ... so we could think of it on the *next* sim perhaps?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: But nobody would prevent a "United Nations" of democratic (or not democratic) sims to be created![/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gwyn - is it unthinkable to release the sim to the citizens?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I'm pretty sure the CDS would join the Commonwealth and be very happy to present suggestions there.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Hmm[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gxeremio, that would divide us in to tiny groups, and we would miss the benifits of a larger community.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: the *citizens* have bought the sim ;)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: The benefits are kept under the Commonwealth (at least all the ones I can think of), plus there is a sense of belonging to a smaller group that has powers of its own as well.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: But hmm[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gxeremio... what I fail to understand,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: is why should the CDS be the only one promoting such an idea.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Rather,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: like the RL UN[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: or the EU[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gxeremio, historically groups with no ties in trade or geography tend to drift apart.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I'm not trying to get at a UN. I'm trying to help promote democracy in SL.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: the other SL nations should come together and talk together.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: well... geogarphically, sims coudl be moved to make the Commonwealth continent...[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: So hmm[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Jon the ties are in trade - via enforceable contracts among its citizens.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: We should not only promote ONE model of democracy,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: but SEVERAL models of democracy?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I mean,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: just this one is giving us all headaches :D[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gwyn - yes. The more groups experimenting, the more likely we are to find systems which work well in SL.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gxeremio, I am very much doubting that substantial trade will emerge. You see, we are a craft and not a coorporate economy.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Ok.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: You wouldn't be directly involved in governing each of them, Gwyn.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: No, just in setting them up...[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: and many more people trade with outside vendors.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Jon, we are becoming very much a service and information economy and desperately need IP and contract laws.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: But hmm[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: *anyone* can do that,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: we're not "special" ;)[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: The CSDF has one item on their programme,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: called "Open Source Democracy"[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Moon Adamant[/b:2k2nh6r6]: well, we have the infrastructure...[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: it's a support programme, if you wish,[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: I'm confused by what you're saying, Gwyn. Here's a clear need, best met by democratic communities, but we're not in the best position to meet that need?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: to aid others to establish themselves.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=Navy:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Jon Seattle[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Gxeremio, granted, but CDS does not have the ability to impose that on the larger SL world. And we are a particular "service" economy in that almost all of our vendors are individuals of very small groups.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Yes, I think more like Jon, actually.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: We can "lead by example"[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: We can create a package of support to set people up[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Jon so what are you saying - we don't need IP and contract law?[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: benefitting from our experience.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkOrange:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2k2nh6r6]: We certainly do, and we're certainly also able to help others up.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=DarkRed:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:2k2nh6r6]: A lot of my proposal hinges on the question of what we can better do together than alone or in small groups.[/color:2k2nh6r6]
[color=SlateGray:2k2nh6r6][b:2k2nh6r6]Rudy Ruml[/b:2k2nh6r6]: Have yo thoight of an abassador of CDS to go around to different sims about joining an EU type democracy?[/color:2k2nh6r6]

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Patroklus Murakami
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Post by Patroklus Murakami »

[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Yes, I agree that the more groups are willing to participate in those discussion ? the better ? the more they can benefit from our two years of in-world experience[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Gxeremio, we are about 40 people, among hundreds of thousands, and do very little trade among ourselves.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: a million now :)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: But if Nstadt/CN has one set of contract and IP laws, and Community X has another, and Communities A, B, C, and D have their own too, what's the point? That I can do business with 40 other people?[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Gwyn, indeed. :)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: With a commonwealth I can confidently do business with all other citizens of the Commonwealth.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Hm.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: so there would be some level of unity?[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: say, a common judicial system?[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Like "international contract law" among the Commonwealth[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Yes, an "international court"[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Yes, that's one of the major points.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][i:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*[/i:102ukohf][/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Well[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: It's feasible, I suppose, although we certainly lack the sheer number of people to organise not only the CDS, but an additional entity as well, which might even have more work to do :)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Plus, and please don't take offense, the whole system is simpler and easier to understand, which attracts more people to have confidence in it.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Gwyn, remember that I want the CDS to become the Commonwealth.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Hmm[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Also remember,[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: that the CDS just wants one republic, one system ;)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: *CSDF[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: At least, well, until we have a few thousand users,[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: *citizens[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: I agree to an extent - we should be unified in the important things.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Then, well, it might be unmanageable...[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: But CSDF doesn't want the same zoning rules in CN as in Nstadt, right? Or the same civic institutions (MoCA and the School and so on)?[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Although there are cities run with 30-40 people with far more inhabitants :D[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: no, of course[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: It's not a "copy", but just an extension[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: CN is a distinct territorial unit[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: So really we're speaking the same language here.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Gxeremio, its not that we are against a looser organzation overall, please understand, but we see the advantages of somewhat larger components of that system. CDS will be a lot more interesting and have more trade when we have 300 or so citizens,[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Well yes, but that's mostly a SL limitation that everything is sold in blocks of 256 x 256[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Actually hmm,[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: it has its infrastructures, such as not all cities irl have universities or stadiums[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Unity in the big things, diversity in the small things, and in all things love, as we used to say.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: when we started, we had only about 1/3 of a sim ;)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: ... when we expanded to a full sim, we didn't create 3 mini-Neufreistadts[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: But we could.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: I submit to you that we could get to 300, or a thousand, or even more in a quicker way via adopting a system like the one I've proposed.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: so et me sum up[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Gxeremio, I feel what you are saying, if adopted too soon, could destroy the CDS.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: What are your fears Jon?[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Not "destroy", just make it unmanageable.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: What would be harder to manage under my proposal than under our current system?[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Oh, let's see a few examples: collecting fees and paying LL for tier.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=SlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Rudy Ruml[/b:102ukohf]: Gxeremio--how does you system diffeer from what I proposed in the main?[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Each sim would have their own system of doing that...[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Gwyn, a local sim would have its chosen system for setting rules on citizenship, collecting fees, and so on. It puts those issues closer to the people effected by them.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Rudy what did you propose?[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Remember, I have a background in socio-cultural geography. And in some ways SL is a very non-geographic place. My fear is that the ties in space and place that bring communities togerher do not exist in second life. And further,[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Then, tracking down different legislation... who would do all that work? I imagine there would be local judiciaries and a "commonwealth" judiciary who would need to tackle the complex cases among two communities with different legislation...[/color:102ukohf]
[color=SlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Rudy Ruml[/b:102ukohf]: Were you reading the exchange between Ash and I.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: I agree Jon. So let's not pretend they do by continuing with our current system.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Yes, Gxeremio, I understand that.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: the cutural ties that make up for that lack of geograpy, are much weaker than you may think.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=SlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Rudy Ruml[/b:102ukohf]: I proposed for CDS a city council type government with elected reps, and a mayor.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Gwyn the legislation that affects everyone is made at the Commonwealth level. If I'm in Nstadt, and CN passes their own legislation just for their sim, I don't need to keep up with it.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=SlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Rudy Ruml[/b:102ukohf]: Also the recall and initiative.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: I understand that, Gxeremio. The problem is just doubling our current structure, nay, doing it even more complex,[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: hmmm Jon... n approach to territoriality could be made, i suppose, by creating a continent[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: since at the Commonwealth level,[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Rudy frankly I think that would be a wonderful government for one of the Commonwealth sims, but I think the people in Nstadt like more checks and balances for their local govt.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Gwyn not at all.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: you'll not only have to deal with ONE system, which is complex enough as it is,[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Well, we have been talking for more than two hours. Lets sumarize our points and adjourn in ten minutes.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: but i understand what you're saying... S is hipercubic[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: The superstructure is less complicated and involves far fewer people.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: but you'll need to deal with N potentially incompatible systems, and sort out all the differences when dealing with each issue separately.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: I'd say, the superstructure would be FAR more complex.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: hmmmGwyn[/color:102ukohf]
[color=SlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Rudy Ruml[/b:102ukohf]: I deat with checks and blances on the forum. I argue that the best for such a city as we have now is the council government I propose.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: and Gxe[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Gwyn I perceive it kind of the way that the states of the US work, but with more flexibility for the states.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: would the governments have to obey a commonwealth constitution?[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Gxeremio, as a person who has been a member of a number of online democratic communitues, I think we have to grow so large that we can weather the other strains that can occur. We need to remain one community.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Well yes ? so it would be more similar to the EU, who has a much looser structure,[/color:102ukohf]
[color=SlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Rudy Ruml[/b:102ukohf]: I look at it as couonties or buroughs under a city council.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: As a citiizen of Virginia, I care about the laws of my state and the US laws, not about the laws of California or Texas or Idaho.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: compare the complexity of the silly European organisations to the much more simple and efficient model of the US ;)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=SlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Rudy Ruml[/b:102ukohf]: Me thinks you have more the UN in mind. Or the EU.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: And at the superstructure level, the Commonwealth law supercedes local law.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Gxeremio, a number, most of those communities are gone.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Yes.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: If you want to go for Ultimate Complexity?[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: yes, i agree[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Rudy I'm well aware of what I'm thinking of. :)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: It's the UN I'm afraid.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=SlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Rudy Ruml[/b:102ukohf]: I was responding to Gwyn. sorry.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: What is?[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Yes, Gxeremio wants a very very loose organization.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: am not sure if your proposal resembles more UN or EU, i'd dare say UN[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: No not very very at all.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Please read the proposed Constitution.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: The looser the organisation ? but STILL able to be able to consolidate different models ? the more complex it becomes.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: i will surely read it :)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Unless the organisation is just a "forum" ? ie. a place to throw ideas[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Gwyn give me an example. I don't understand what you're afraid of.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Gxeremio, you do not provide a basis that is enduring or even connected in a way that we need to be connected.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Jon what basis do you propose?[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Afraid? Well... basically, that we don't have enough people to run CDS at the point we are with 40-50 people,[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: As you pointed out, geography is not a real factor here. My proposal connects people economically and by affinity.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Then simplify the government of the sim.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: much less than running a meta-organisation, able to deal with different communities and different systems[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: brb[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Gxeremio, we must remain, socially, politically, a single community. That is identity.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: I think you perceive that the Commonwealth would have to be more active at the local level than it would in fact need to be.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: you provide no basis for that at all.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Jon, I agree.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: But my identity in Nstadt is not with the Guild, or the RA, or the SC. It is with being part of a democratic, thinking community of people.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Okay, :) lets wrap this up in five minutes.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: I do indeed, if it's a "commonwealth" in the sense that all members of it want similar rights and duties on *all* member states.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: If it's just a "trade association", well... then ok, I agree[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: it can be simpler.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: By the way, I was saying I agree on your definition of identity, not that my proposal doesn't provide that.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: If it's a "debating forum", ie. like the early Society of Nations,[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: No Gwyn.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: it can be simpler as well.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Gxeremio, I assumed that is what you meant. :)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Just that Commonwealth laws would be enforced on all citizens, not the laws of each locality forces on citizens of other localities.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Ok. Then, another question.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Let's take Germany.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Which bit of the Government there is simpler and lighter,[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: the individual state's government,[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: or the federal government? :)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=SlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Rudy Ruml[/b:102ukohf]: The federal government.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: I don't know nearly enough about Germany's government to be able to answer that.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: You can also replace Germany with Brazil, Switzerland... and of course the US ;)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][i:102ukohf]Jon Seattle smiles and nods to Gwyn[/i:102ukohf][/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: The US government is actually simpler when scaled for people effected than my state government.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: ... or Mexico, Canada... even Spain to an extent (which is not technically a federation)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=SlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Rudy Ruml[/b:102ukohf]: Yes.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Hmm[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: back[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Is it really? ;)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Yes.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: An exception to the rule? ;)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: I know more about US law than state law. I can name all my reps in Congress, but I don't know all my reps in the state legislature.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: That's "information", not complexity.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Yes, I agree, Gwyn[/color:102ukohf]
[color=SlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Rudy Ruml[/b:102ukohf]: Before ending, I would just kikke to add that the tendency is to place too myc institutionalization between government and the citizen. Simply, the simpler for the voter the better.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: Again, scaled for the number of workers per citizen, the state government has more workers than the national govenrment.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: Well sure, the UN as well...[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Okay, lets end this meeting, Last statements.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: I don't understand what point you're getting at by listing those countries.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=SlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Rudy Ruml[/b:102ukohf]: The government that governs least govern best. YOu can guote me.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: I'm not convinced by anedoctal evidence ? I can believe that, at one point or another, there might be exceptions where local government is more complex than over-arching governments, but these are exceptions...[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Rudy, I had heard that quote from someone else :)[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkRed:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gxeremio Dimsum[/b:102ukohf]: The CDS must be flexible to be attractive and have the impact we all desire on spreading democracy in SL>[/color:102ukohf]
[color=SlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Rudy Ruml[/b:102ukohf]: Nah.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkOrange:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:102ukohf]: lol Rudy[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DarkSlateGray:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Moon Adamant[/b:102ukohf]: lol[/color:102ukohf]
[color=Navy:102ukohf][b:102ukohf]Jon Seattle[/b:102ukohf]: Okay, thanks everyone for joining us.[/color:102ukohf]
[color=DimGray:102ukohf][i:102ukohf]The meeting closed at 17:22 Linden time.[/i:102ukohf][/color:102ukohf]

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