CSDF General Meeting 10 August 3pm - Transcript

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Patroklus Murakami
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CSDF General Meeting 10 August 3pm - Transcript

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

The next RA meeting will take place on Sat 12 August at 4am. I assume we will want to meet in advance of that to discuss the bills (and other issues) under consideration.

I'm calling a General Meeting of the CSDF for [b:zitdtmz5]Thursday 10 August at 3pm [/b:zitdtmz5](as this was the time we settled on for last week). I suggest we dispense with separate open General Meetings and (also open!) Public Meetings and just hold a General Meeting open to all N'stadt citizens.

Location: [b:zitdtmz5]The Red House[/b:zitdtmz5] (on the Lowland Road, Neufreistadt 137, 21, 123) if that's okay with Jon.

Please add suggested agenda items to my preliminary list by posting here.

[b:zitdtmz5]Agenda[/b:zitdtmz5]
1. Upcoming RA meeting
-Franchulate bill
-Budget
-Executive & Guild reform

2. Ashcroft's Proposals for a Legal System

3. CSDF Future Activities.
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Patroklus Murakami
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CSDF General Meeting 10 August 3pm - Transcript 1/2

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

[color=Black:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Object-Name: notetaker 2.0.1[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Sienna:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Region: Neufreistadt (246528, 249600)[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOliveGreen:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Local-Position: (100, 87, 128)[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkGreen:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Meeting on 2006-08-10[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateBlue:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Those present[/b:bv4p3weg]: [/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn touches the recorder to give permission to be logged.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: please touch the recorder to indicate your consent to be recorded[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Olive:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Washington Irvine has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: washington, we publish a transcript of all our meetings so ppl who werent' here can read them[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle prepares to take notes[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: first item[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: next RA meeting[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn now only speaks formally.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: franchulate bill. anyone understand this? I still can't get my head round it[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: well[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: we discussed it after the RA meeting[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: It makes more sense under the new group tools...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: does it make sense now though?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Expansion is fine,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: i have no strong objection to it, i jsut can't see the benefit[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: BTW, Moon seems to have crashed...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well, it is an interesting idea. I am not sure if it will work economically, but it does allow new forms for expansion.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: i thought of franchulating one of my business parcels but not if it means i lose control of my land![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Moon had some objections however, that I share.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: hmmmm, do you read this?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: brb[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: first of all...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami waits for moon[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: hmmmm, seems like it has recovered[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: well, let me try again, lol[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle listens[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: so we discussed it[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: sorry[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: think i must be getting bad chat lag, haven't seen anything of moon's text![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ah, let me outline those[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami listens to jon[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: No, Moon is having an issue with her Ethernet card, I think...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: The question came up, how are the franch to be goverened?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Are each to have their own commitee, as the DPU proposes for sims?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: hi extropia, welcome[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: hi extropia[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello Extropia :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Green:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Extropia DaSilva[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hey Hi there:)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to keeping a chat long :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: It seemd to us this was a good aegument for a republic vs a confederated model.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: *log[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: and also Moon noted that the bill really assumed that this kind of expansion is[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: economically motivated only. While there are many other aspects that are quite important.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Personally, as you know, I'm all for the "expansion on the mainland" (even if I agree that the enforceability of it right now is pretty much reduced, but it'll change quite a bit under SL 1.12)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Moon, is that a fair summary?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, Jon, thanks a lot[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: and hello Extropia :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello Extropia! :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: I like the idea overall, because it might let up incorporate groups like the[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: but is the economic emphasis a show-stopper? i'm inclined to say 'let it pass and see what happens'[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: esprato group more easily.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes, Jon, my thoughts exactly...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: but the objections have to be ironed out.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Green:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Extropia DaSilva[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello! When do we discuss dismantling the planets and using the raw materials to build a Matrioska Brain computer, then? Lol![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: And personally, again, I have nothing against the proposal "in general" hehe[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: and lol Extropia :D[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: oh, that's a good point. perhaps the proposal needs a little more thought? we should suggest more discussion?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: i think though that this bill should come accompanied by others, a larger framework[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: We could *provide* more discussion,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: and propose our own framework...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: i wanted to, but had no time for it[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Aye. Well.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: "not voting" on it and requesting for more time is fair enough, I guess :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: What would our key points be, though?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: the dpu are keen to pass it tho, and it was in their manifesto. so they could force a vote i suppose. we'd need strong arguments to favour a stay[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Like hmm, "no franchulates before we decide if we're a republic or a federation"?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: I talked a bit to Salzie, and my take on her position, is that we really need to iron out the executive and consititutional issues before we move ahead on so many other proposals.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Or "no franchulates before delegating executive powers"?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ok... yes, Jon.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: how would this bill, if passed, coordinate with our own proposals for Opensource democracy and diplomatic relations?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: the franchulates, as I read them,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: are "part" of the CDS:[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: so, under the same legal system, etc.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Our own proposals for those 2 areas would be more targetted towards "external" groups...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ... or so I understand...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami waits for chat to appear....[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: everybody quite all of the sudden..[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Olive:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Washington Irvine[/b:bv4p3weg]: Apologies guys, I'll need to read a FAQ before crashing in on another meeting - all over my head. Ta Ta[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: bye[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Green:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Extropia DaSilva[/b:bv4p3weg]: Get the FAQ out of here...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: bye Washington, np at all :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: well, you're welocme to join us anytime washington[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Bye Washington[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: It's a bit complex, Washington :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Anyway hmm,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I have some questions on the franchulates, why did Pelanor propose them to report to the Guild=[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: are we agree that the franchulate idea needs to be resolved afer we sort out the exec and the republic? is that our position? (in which case we can move on:))[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: well, i agree to that[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: i think that is the main question really[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes, I think we can try to move it to after the other discussions. I am not completley sure that will work, but it might[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: there's no pressing need for franchulates that i can discern[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Oooh I disagree on the "lack of pressing need",[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: is anybody banging on the gates demanding them?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol Pat[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: apparently, Pelanor claims so, yes.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: go on gw[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: making a queue for them...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: We speculate on the Esperantoists,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: but Pelanor has interests on the mainland,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: as has FR, Dnate, and others.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: *I* would love to add some more areas as well, LOL[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, it may be economically motivated in Pel's part.. I am not sure.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: My issue is, as always, enforcement.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: k, there may be a pressing need :) but we suggest furhter discussion? can we move on to referenda?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Democratic participation is easy: we're a republic (and always have been), unless the constitution is amended.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I would suggest at least more discussion on the *ownership* issue.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: The rest is rather clear to me...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: but is it good for our image as a territory management project to have odd bits of land here and there? i wonder...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Sure it is, Moon :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: World Domination Now?, one tiny bit at a time.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Here and there, Neufreistadt everywhere![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: 512 by 512 at a time :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Aye :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Also, there is the psychological impact,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well, IF it is well managed, I think it may give us more exposure, and allow us to add new groups.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: imagine rotating signs on the mainland "This Land is Under The Jurisdiction of Neufreistadt/CDS".[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: "trespassers shall be forced to attend meetings until they die of boredom" :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: LOL I asked Gwyn today if her world domination project included RL[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, i quite like that idea. especially flying the flag on my mainland parcels and providing business guarantees. but it doesn't feel fully formed[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol gwyn[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Not yet, Jon :D[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well, one thing is for sure. The *ownership* (in SL terms!) has to be *crystal clear*,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami bangs hammer. Referenda? Yes or no?[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, of course[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I've noticed that Pelanor "assumed" that the City would own it,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: and that all franchulates are group land with rentals.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ok, sorry, Pat.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn hushes now.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: well, it seems we're agreed on referenda. claude has raised some qns about it, i favour giving the RA leeway..[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: but i wouldn't hold out for the sake of it[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: any comments?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Aye, well[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: the only comment I have...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ... is to have the bill on the referenda to be approved as late as possible,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: and include Claude's suggestion :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: (ie. that it only gets approved by the end of term)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: But it might be worth asking Claude if the DPU is willing to let the current bill pass...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn is against referenda anyway ;)[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: sounds reasonable.. as we have work to do in that department.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: pfff biased Gwyn :P[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes, very much so. "The vote to the people, not the power to the people" :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: that's a very 'pragmatic' way of looking at things :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I know, Pat :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: you'd fit in very well here in NYS, gwyn[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: But I have my rather strong views on that, hehe.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Oh, Yoge ? actually, I always had doubts on referenda,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: there's an ongoing debate here about allowing initiative and referenda[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: all that I've seen in my lifetime broke completely the important issues to be approved,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yoge, if I rember, NYS never had that.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: it doesn't[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: pro-choice in my country, or the European Constitution...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ... when you get the people to decide... they decide AGAINST change ;)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: hehe.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ah well,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: as said,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: i wonder if any RA is going to want to tie the hands of a future one? i can see this amend never getting passed :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Claude should be consulted.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Indeed Pat[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ask him first.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: perhaps jon could discuss with claude in advance of the RA meeting? table it for later in the term if the dpu agree?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: I would be gald to.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: But what is the sense of this meeting, that it should not go ahead?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: it's a good idea[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: OK, next budget[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I think we had quite a bit of things that *should* be changed on the constitution *before* our "hands get tied", as you so well put it on the forums, Pat...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: oh, i think it should go ahead[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello Xed, welcome![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: V^v^.:HowwwlzzZ:.^v^V[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: xed[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Green:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Extropia DaSilva[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: hellow xed[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Teal:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Xed Goheen[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello all[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hello Xed[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: anybody have a chance to read the budget?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Oops... budget, budget.... no?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: enlighten us, o Beloved Leader? :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn blushes ashamedly.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: i haven't, sorry[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: neither have i, sorry[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: I scanned it breifly.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Pat, do you have some specific issues?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Oops.. lost our SG[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Aye... let's wait a bit.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes, I think so.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: wb! :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkRed:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Yogeswari Padar[/b:bv4p3weg]: wb pat[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: wb :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: not having much luck today, am i?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Doesn't look so...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Do you have specific issues with the budget Pat?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle smiles at Pat[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: i havent' really scrutinised it, hoped others might have :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hmm for clarification's sake... I can't find a "budget", just a "Financial Sheet"[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ... do you have a link to the budget?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol Pat[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: hmm, Gwyn i have it in my other machine, i can send it to you later on[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: It should be on the forum I think[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: thank you Moon[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well, I searched for "budget"...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: perhaps we should move on to exec/guild reform where we do have things to say? come bbback to budget if we have time[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: fine by me[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes, I think so.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami looks for the link for gwyn[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: are we any further forward on guild/exec reform? feels like the camps are embedded to me[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well, I found Justice's proposal interesting[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Oh, fascinating indeed, Jon.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Even Ashcroft's.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: as it does not require election of a separate exec. but has the RA appoint one.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: As I read this, we may be able to get this[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: a bit closer to our model.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: It's almost the same as what the CSDF is proposing, actually,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: indeed[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: the difference mostly being the way it's introduced.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: which one, ashcroft's ?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle agrees with Gwyn[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ... and Justice's[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Justice basically took Ashcroft's proposal and made it into a bill :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: With some slight editing.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well Ashcroft, as I read it, would have elections for the exec in each sim.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: oh yes, but there's still some dispute over remit and constl implications[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, true Pat.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, Jon, although his own bill did not set it specifically.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: and indeed, Pat.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I've just posted a few minutes ago two things that have to be addressed,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: i did have a brief chat with claude about all of this[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: 1) one or many "burgermeisters"?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: 2) what about the Guild?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle nods to Gwyn[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Pat, what did Claude say?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: This is clearly NOT what Claude proposed.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: his main issue appears to be 'checks and balances', his budget example is rather good. currently the GM checks the RA on budgeting and prevents frivolous expenditure[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ah yes.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: well, acts as a check on it[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: That is indeed my only objection (the budget=[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: )[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: under our system, who could prevent a rogue RA from poor use of money. 'a lot of damage can be done in six month' is claude's view[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: The Guild has veto powers...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: if we could find a way to incorporat thsi, that would help[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: I am not at all sure that an exec with a veto would help this problem.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I agree.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I agree with you as well, Jon.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: but if the Guild has an understanding with teh RA...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: That's the same issue as if the RA has an understanding with the SC ...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle nods to Moon[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: oh yes, the current system is not foolproof[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: So yes, Moon, you're right.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: but it has checks and balances built inn[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: one idea i had, was that we could allow for the recall of the RA[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Well, Claude does hava a point, if the exec is appointed by the majority party.... there are no real checks.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: the citizens could vote to recall a rogue RA. might be a good thing anyway[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I mean related to the budget.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: why don't the SC then check on the Budget, through a financial committee?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Another referendum![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: haha[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Moon, that MIGHT be an alternative...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: yes, I think I would be happier with that[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Pat, and who would set up a referendum against the RA? :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Clearly, it could not be neither the RA, nor the Exec...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: who would initiate? well, the citizens by referenda. perhaps 10% to trigger an election[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I know! Citizens directly impeaching their officials![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: hehe[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: they would plea to teh SC i suppose[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Yes, Pat, but consider the following scenario...[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ah-hah[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: So, now[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Now we have an SC with judicial powers,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: financial veto,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: and the power to dissove the RA.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hah.[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Claude will smash us publicly once he reads this :D[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: hmm, i see your point :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: hehe :D[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: i dont' favour giving the SC any financial powers, it muddies the waters[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: *and* dissolving the RA through a popular vote.... hehe[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Blue:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Ranma Tardis[/b:bv4p3weg]: HI[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Naaah[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Nobody will go for that :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: hi Ranma :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ranma, hello there![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: hi ranma[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle[/b:bv4p3weg]: Hi Ranma[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Ranma, we're planning to make the SC totalitarian, please take a seat :D[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Blue:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Ranma Tardis[/b:bv4p3weg]: came home and saw this group here[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: lol[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: ... while you still can![/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Indigo:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Jon Seattle laughs[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][i:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn taxes now every citizen having a seat.[/i:bv4p3weg][/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=Navy:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Patroklus Murakami[/b:bv4p3weg]: why not gwyn? recall elections are a useful check on the power of the legislature. very democratic :)[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: Oh, Pat, I agree, of course,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: the thing is[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkOrange:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Moon Adamant[/b:bv4p3weg]: there is a 4th power, which is the power of veto[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: I'm just joking... but... the issue is: IF the RA and the Exec do NOT want to get out of office,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: who will force them out of office?[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: How would the voting system work in that case,[/color:bv4p3weg]
[color=DarkSlateGray:bv4p3weg][b:bv4p3weg]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:bv4p3weg]: since it's set up by the RA itself?[/color:bv4p3weg]
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Patroklus Murakami
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CSDF General Meeting 10 August 3pm - Transcript 2/2

Post by Patroklus Murakami »

[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: but we have the same issue now. what if we had won the election and the dpu refused to yield power? our system relies on ppl playing by the agreed rules of the game[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Pat,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: in that case,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: the DPU would be impeached.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Blue:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Ranma Tardis[/b:2ojbxzis]: Gwyneth is Kendra Bancroft going to stage a coup on Sunday?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: and?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: haha Ranma, no, I don't think so :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: shhh ranma![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: And, if they get impeached, Moon...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: lol[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: ... they could even be temporarily banned.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: So there ARE some checks.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: hmmmmm[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: you know Gwyn[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: this reminds me a lot of that old 'Yes Minister' program...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: :-D[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: 'Now, will you press the button?!'[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: my real life reminds me of 'yes, minister'![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Ah yes, one of the episodes I liked most...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: and LOL Pat![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: lol Pat[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: i hope you're Sir Humphrey, then :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Ok, ok[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Sooo recall elections.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Would that be enough?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: you might think that moon, i couldn't possibly comment :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: perhaps not gwyn, just an idea for giving claude some comfort[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: lol, not under the Civil Service Secrecy Act, of course ;)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: haha Moon[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: brb[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well, ok, Pat[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: i think the solution may lie in one of justice's mayor-type proposals[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Although I see serious flaws on that system (ie. when would a recall election be held? and by whom? who would oversee? etc)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: ... I might go for it, just to appease Claude.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: provided these don't promote secessionary tendencies, which is one of their features i fear[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle nods to Pat[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Pat on that[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: how close do u think we are to a solution? one week away? two? a month?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: On the issue of providing checks and balances?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: and the whole issue of exec[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Oh, exec is rather easy, now that Justice posted "almost" the same proposal as the CSDF did :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well, I think this is going to be the main point of discussion at the next RA meeting[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Yes, I think Gwyn is right about that.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: so we could get agreement this week?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Indeed.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: I agreeI think so.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: possibly, i think[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: *sorry I think so, yes.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: i think there may be some issues about wording, only[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: I just hope you guys are able to clarify the Guild's position first,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: or else the SC will *have* to veto it :P[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Gwyn, I was concerned about that[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: You saw my post, I think[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Blue:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Ranma Tardis has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: yes, i could see gwyn's 'little veto' tigger finger hanging over it :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: *trigger[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle laughs, Pat[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: the CSDF proposal is for a constitutional ammendment, not for a bil...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well yes, there is no problem in replacing one thing by another, at the constitutional level...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: do we think we can get round the need for a constl amend with one of the bills on the table?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Sure ? if the Guild approves[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: Pat: my opinion:[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: I mean, the Guild has to approve to delegate their powers to the same body as well.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle nods to Gwyn, I see.[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Ah, Ashcroft has posted on that thread as well....[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: the change of the nature of one branch of teh state should be object of an amendment[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: and yes Gwyn[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: yes moon :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: lol, feels she has that tattooed on her forehead :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: yes, while the CSDF's proposal calls for a constitutional amendment,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: it changes two things at the same time,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: so there is no problem at all.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: On the other hand, delegating things that are not for the RA to delegate....[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: The only reason that I could see for not seeking an amendment is to bypass our possible disapproval.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: ... well... you know... the veto was only employed twice,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: and in both cases, the RA was trying to delegate powers of the Guild into another body (the Finance Committee)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle nods[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami nods[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: So, I am wondering, why avoid an amendment?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: My thoughts exactly.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: that's a qn i *didn't* get on to with claude. there does seem to be a reluctanct tho to entertain constl amends[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Aye.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: yes... that may cause even the DPU proposants of bills to the same effect to vote against us[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: It's actually strange,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well, I would be far more concerned to have (in effect) constitutional change without an amendment..[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Claude proposed *ten* amendments to the Constitution last term,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: but now he doesn't want to change it :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Jon, I totally agree with you![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: i know gwyn, that's what puzzles me too[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Maybe he thinks that his amendments were only "clarifications",[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: I think that was a campain thing, to appear conservative in contrast to our proposals for change.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: and he wants to keep the Constitution as pure to the original as possible...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: aah, possibly[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: ... but you might be right as well, Jon[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: hmmmm, shrugs[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: can we move on to the legal proposals? i think further debate on the exec wil have to take place on the forums, unless the RA sorts something out on saturday :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well, I personally hate to do many "patchings" on the legal system just because there is a reluctance on changing the Constitution...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: And yes, Pat :D[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: sure Pat, moving on[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: shall we just ask ashcroft to draft the necessaries and get on with it? :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: seriously tho..[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: What do you mean, "draft"? He has written a treaty, not a draft :D[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: hehe[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: there's a lot to take in there. first thoughts?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: I think it may be an issue of having a retired professor in our community. A great resource, but he has a lot of time on his hands![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Oh, just your own comments, Pat. We have to keep it low in the number of required officials...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Oh![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: haha Jon :D[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant wonders when will be 48-hour days invented... or even 72-hour[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: well he's a great asset and he's clearly done a lot of thinking on this[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: I have just read it twice,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: I need to read it at least 10 times to have serious questions.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: i think we've moved ahead several months on developing our legal system[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: I totally and absolutely agree![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: but i will need to go back and read it a few more times. and then there's a lot of debate to be had. we'll need several threads to thrash it all out[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: That's what I'm afraid of :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Let me explain...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Ashcroft's proposals are *very* extensive,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: on one hand, they solve *everything*.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: So this would mean what you meant, Pat: having our complkete legal system, perhaps 2 or 3 years in advance![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: ... on the other hand, people might be willing to argue every little sentence of it before approving it.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Now.... hmmm.... unlike what some people claimed,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: just the Constitution took a 20-people team to agree over a period of TEN weeks.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: And it has perhaps hmmm...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: 1/10th of the size of Ashcroft's proposal?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: So..... we're almost 40 people now,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: that would take us... hmm.... 200 weeks? :D[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: 4 years? :D[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: So my recommendation would be: address the issues you've directly asked Ashcroft,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: some are quite easy[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: and approve the whole text wholesale,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: and then have the RA change one thing or the other,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: yes, it could get unwieldy very quickly and the forums might not be the best way to sort it out. but i think what we've shortcutted is a lot of the groundwork[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: over a period of 4 years :D ? but at least, we would have SOMETHING during those 4 years![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: ah, Gwyn, will you be at the RA meeting on Saturday?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Yes :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn is a chatoholic[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: lol[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: very true[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: This might be very appropriate thing to say directly to the RA, since you really are the legal authority here.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: oh pfft, I'm waaay below the league of Ashcroft or Justice, Jon :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: or Diderot[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: But, I think your point is very important.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well, just being a pragmatic optimist here :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Green:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Extropia DaSilva[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well people, my primary yawns her head off so I guess it's time I separated my self from her mind. IE I am logging. Night all:)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: And appropriate as dean of SC[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: It's better to start with something that can always be changed,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: night Extropia :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: goodnight extropia[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Green:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Extropia DaSilva[/b:2ojbxzis]: bye:)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Goodnight Extropia[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: than aim for the "best" legal system in the world, but never actually get to it, because of all discussions.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Bye Extropia ? thanks for coming![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle nods and agrees with Gwyn[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: i'm inclined to agree with gwyn, provided we excise some elements such as 'compulsory chat logs' :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: Are we ready for item 3? CSDF future activities?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: ok :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Aye :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: ty to moon and jon for your outline of teh website[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: shall we set a target date for launch so we know what we're aiming for?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: yes, it was a good start, I think![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Very welcome. I will start to put together the structure in the next week.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: hmmmm[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: I think Moon has much to do with other projects at the moment.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: target date....[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: yes[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: True...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: it could be a realistic target date, which takes people's commitments into account :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: i do have... never before the middle of september[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: i'd rather have one that we later amend than none at all :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami is *such* a civil servant![/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: and beginning of october would be better, i think[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: How about the end of September.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well, I should be able to do some work.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: yes Jon, last of september, first of october, around there[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle nods and agrees[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees as well[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Setting things up is easy enough for me, if you wish.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: that sounds great. i'll get started on an inaugural blog post. perhaps circulate some ideas by email?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: sure Pat![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Fine :D[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: do we have any other future activities planned?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Great idea pat![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Also, we should think if we want to do a simple blog, or something more sophisticated...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Ah Pat,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: a bit before the campaign started,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: there was a suggestion of doing some events sponsored by the CSDF,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: to discuss openly ? ie. not a "faction meeting" ? some issues related to NFS[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Some sort of "Civic Town Hall Meeting"[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: With a topic, related to what is under discussion at the RA, for instance[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: For instance... this week... it would have been something like: "Should we have an Executive?" or "Republic vs. Federation ? Come discuss!"[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Salzie has seriously asked *all* citizens to hold *regular* events in NFS....[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: ... this would be the CSDF's contribution[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Its a good idea. Moon and I are quite busy, unfortunatly[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: i would very much like to see that kind of events happening[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: i think we need to avoid 'meeting overload' both for ourselves and NFS. we had real trouble getting citizens to come to political meetings during the election campaign[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: hmmmm[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: but what about[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: RA meetings are currently weekly it would seem![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: i mean, take thinkers - you have grousp stemming out of them, say, Ethics... why not have a political thinkers?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: yes...i also thought they were wekk in, week out, actually[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: perhaps we should aim to hold two or three 'public' meetings during the RA term on the big issues of the day and really build for them? but not hold them too regularly[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: ok, i agree[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: yes, I think that is a good idea[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Ok, that seems like a reasonable compromise.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: really no need to go hol?ding events if/when you're only discussing administrative thingies :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Like hmm a "convention on democratic debate" :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: This could be a series of events, hmm[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: yes, and the themes could be more 'strategic' and less day today than 'waht's on at the RA this week'[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Yes.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Actually hmm[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Rudy Ruml had also some ideas in that regard...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: 'sides if i'm holding any more regular events in NFS i want it to be an opera night[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: ... speaking of the devil... hello Rudy![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Hi Rudy[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: if you have them on broader topics, they might interest outseiders a s well[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: hi rudy :) gwyn was just talking about u[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: awww Pat ? did you ever see Moon+s opera house? :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: hello Rudy .)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: no, i remember u mentioned it to me once[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=SlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Rudy Ruml[/b:2ojbxzis]: Hi, I missed most of the meeting. I thought it was 3pm CA time.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: it's not complete yet![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: you must show me sometime moon[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=SlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Rudy Ruml[/b:2ojbxzis]: Hi everyone.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: It started on 3 PM Pacific Standard Time, Rudy...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: oh, btw... did anyone get this meeting hour all wrong in GCalendar too?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: aaah,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: sure Pat :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: that's why![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: i thought gcalendar was ok? i set it for 3pm[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: oh, Gwyn, it was at a very weird hour, so it would be impossible....[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: it was my first go tho :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=SlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Rudy Ruml[/b:2ojbxzis]: That would be 6pm my time, and I was looking forward to it. Had it on my calender. Oh well, next time.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: Pat, sometimes the site gets it all wrong, i always recheck the hour there[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: we were discussing holding public meetings rudy. perhaps two or three this term and tryinng to get a good turnout for them[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Indeed... perhaps picking on a specific, broad theme...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: and i think what happened is that my GCalendar then got the hour all wrong too from the site too[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: it was difficult to get ppl to meetings in the election campaign, just us politicos[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: hehe Pat ? true,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: although, if you don't mind mentioning it, Aliasi's "Civic Classes" were quite well attended.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: We should encourage Aliasi to do those again...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: that sounds like a gr8 idea, would she take much convincing?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Oh! I don't think so.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: I guess that if we do those events less frequently,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: but in a "bigger" size[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: ie. like having some presentations, and debates, and who knows, special guests,[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=SlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Rudy Ruml[/b:2ojbxzis]: Are these events of the city, or your faction?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: we could have Aliasi there[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well Rudy ? the CSDF is proposing to "sponsor" these.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: in the sense of organising them, and preparing them...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle nods[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Some people think that the C in CSDF is for "chatting" ;)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: hehe[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=SlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Rudy Ruml[/b:2ojbxzis]: Would that not effect the turnout if a political group sponsors it versus the sity?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: lol[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: It would![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: :-D[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: hmmmm[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well, we could always approach the DPU to sponsor it with us.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well, we could make those apolitical, I guess...[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: and yes Jon[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: even better :D[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=SlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Rudy Ruml[/b:2ojbxzis]: Is the purposoe of the events educational or political?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: yes[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: As long as not at 7 PM SLT![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: :-D[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: lol[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: i'd say educational, Rudy[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=SlateGray:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Rudy Ruml has indicated consent to be recorded.[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well, Aliasi is pretty much apolitical, and her Civic Classes were very neutral.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=SlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Rudy Ruml[/b:2ojbxzis]: Wouldn't it be better to advise the city to hold these, then?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: hi dnate[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well, the city would be harder..[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn has no opinion for a change.[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Hi Dnate[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=SlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Rudy Ruml[/b:2ojbxzis]: Hi dnate.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn just says "hi" to Dnate :)[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: would teh city sponsor an event suggeted by one political party?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DimGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Dnate Mars[/b:2ojbxzis]: Morning :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: and hi Dnate![/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Well, we could propose it and see what happens.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: There is no harm in that.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Blue:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Ranma Tardis[/b:2ojbxzis]: Hi Dnate :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: But I think that would be the same as the DPU and us sponsoring it.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: The worst that could happen is the RA to reject the proposal :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: ... and we would still hold them.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: yes, all right, I will write up a notecard and send it to Claude.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=SlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Rudy Ruml[/b:2ojbxzis]: I'm not a member of this faction or any, at the moment. Maybe it would be best for me to make the suggestion, with your help, of course.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: yay! great suggestion[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Indigo:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Jon Seattle[/b:2ojbxzis]: Sure Rudy[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=SlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Rudy Ruml[/b:2ojbxzis]: Good. I need a seret assistant.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami[/b:2ojbxzis]: are we at an end comrades?[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: thanks Rudy :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Navy:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]Patroklus Murakami is very sleepy now :)[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkOrange:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Moon Adamant[/b:2ojbxzis]: and me[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: Aw poor Pat & Moon....[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: .... sleep well :)[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=SlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Rudy Ruml[/b:2ojbxzis]: I'm wide awake at 1:59pm my time.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=DarkSlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:2ojbxzis]: hehe :))[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=SlateGray:2ojbxzis][b:2ojbxzis]Rudy Ruml[/b:2ojbxzis]: Sorry.Couldn't help but rug in my advantage.[/color:2ojbxzis]
[color=Red:2ojbxzis][i:2ojbxzis]The meeting closed at 17:0 Linden time.[/i:2ojbxzis][/color:2ojbxzis]
Locked

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