CSDF Open Meeting on Land Management - Transcript

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Moon Adamant
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CSDF Open Meeting on Land Management - Transcript

Post by Moon Adamant »

[16:21] Jon Seattle: Earlier we were joking about Gwyn's plan for world domination..
[16:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why joking? ;)
[16:21] Jon Seattle laughs
[16:21] Charlotte Gillespie: Grrr I have a headache
[16:21] Moon Adamant: lol, well, now it's yoru big chance gwyn!
[16:21] Moon Adamant: as we expand... you can set set yoru cunning plans in motion :P
[16:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it's going well, one step at the time... :)
[16:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Charlotte — I'm sorry to hear that....
[16:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :(
[16:22] Moon Adamant: Charlotte, Ranma - do sit down :)
[16:22] Jon Seattle: Ranma, I hope you do not mind our being a bit less serious tonight..
[16:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[16:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a *bit* ;)
[16:23] Ranma Tardis: well have a good meeting!
[16:23] Moon Adamant: lol, well, it is a pleasant variation
[16:23] Moon Adamant: ah, thanks! :)
[16:23] Moon Adamant: /gets a cig
[16:23] Jon Seattle: Thanks Ranma
[16:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww ranma — are we scaring you off? :(
[16:23] Charlotte Gillespie: I'm never serious
[16:23] Charlotte Gillespie: Mind if I crash a fag Gwyn?
[16:23] Moon Adamant: hmmmm
[16:24] Moon Adamant: well... can i impress you with teh amaziingly deep expansion plans of teh CSDF, lol?
[16:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: By all means, but you have to ask Jon — this is his place!
[16:24] You: go for it, moon
[16:24] Jon Seattle: Chalotte, you have been around SL for some time I see..
[16:24] Charlotte Gillespie: Jon Seattle sounds like an American radio DJ ;)
[16:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
[16:25] Moon Adamant: lol, Yoge, thanks
[16:25] Jon Seattle laughs
[16:25] Charlotte Gillespie: "Hey, it's Jon Seattle on the greatest hits of music, N-101, we've got some grrrreat hits for you tonight..."
[16:25] You: lol
[16:25] Jon Seattle: I got only one chance to pick a name when I first signed up, and always liked the cheif and the city!
[16:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! Thus the name, Jon,
[16:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wondered about that.
[16:26] Moon Adamant: ah, i like Chief Seattle as well :)
[16:26] Jon Seattle: Actually, it also parallels my RL name in some way
[16:26] Moon Adamant: must have read his Reply over a hundred times
[16:26] Jon Seattle smiles brightly at Moon
[16:27] Moon Adamant smiles back
[16:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn has just read it twice, I think, and once it was the abridged version...
[16:27] Charlotte Gillespie: Yah, I've been around a while, drifting here and there :)
[16:27] Charlotte Gillespie: A bit like a social democrat really - never knowing where I really am. ;)
[16:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hah.
[16:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ;)
[16:27] You: ha ha ha
[16:27] Jon Seattle laughs
[16:27] Moon Adamant: lol, that is a provocation indeed Charlotte
[16:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, indeed. So we're talking about expansion now?
[16:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh... what is at 6 PM then? :P
[16:28] Moon Adamant: nothing!
[16:28] Charlotte Gillespie: Naked Tringo, I think.
[16:28] Moon Adamant: 6PM is tomorrow
[16:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah!
[16:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*
[16:28] Moon Adamant: Jon will talk of Land Management
[16:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm sorry guys,
[16:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: this is getting too confusing for my poor mind.
[16:28] Moon Adamant: btw Gwyn, i do need help to see what's happening with teh Calendar i set for teh CSDF
[16:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, Moon, have you told Jon about the overlapping meetings on Wednesday?
[16:28] Moon Adamant: ah, no
[16:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... ah please Moon... we'll do it tomorrow... is that fine?
[16:29] Moon Adamant: since i was holding it
[16:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! Ok.
[16:29] Moon Adamant: yes of coruse
[16:29] Charlotte Gillespie: Youse lot sound like you could do with some help with organisation
[16:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Jon & Yoge, there is an opportunity for doing a Thinker's event next Wednesday,
[16:29] Charlotte Gillespie: There are websites you can sign up to which allow you to set up a group calendar that's a bit better than the one that comes with SL :)
[16:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *also* at 4 PM
[16:29] Moon Adamant: oh, we are using Google Calendar
[16:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes Charlotte — we're using Google Calendar :)
[16:29] Moon Adamant: but there is some issue with tomezones
[16:29] Charlotte Gillespie: I was thinking 43things ;)
[16:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, never tried that!
[16:30] Jon Seattle: Oh, we have just set up a google calandar, but we need to figure out the time zone issues.
[16:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed Jon :P
[16:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway... it'll be a Thinkers' event on self-governance,
[16:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we have a special guest,
[16:30] Jon Seattle: Gwyn, very interesting
[16:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: none other than Robin Linden herself ;)
[16:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... almost all set for Trotsky's.
[16:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (meaning: no, I haven't posted the event *yet*)
[16:30] Jon Seattle: Sounds very interesting.
[16:31] Charlotte Gillespie: I'd best hide. The Lindens are my sworn arch-nemesi
[16:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, we're a bit dependant on Robin's schedule, and she only has the chance to do that at 4 PM
[16:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Char :)
[16:31] Charlotte Gillespie: That's midnight in England. Not too bad for post-pub debate. ;)
[16:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lindens are Mostly Harmless.
[16:31] Moon Adamant: so probably wednesday event on constitution will pass to thursday or even friday
[16:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes :(
[16:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry about that, guys.
[16:32] Moon Adamant: np Gwyn
[16:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We gave her a range of choices between 2 and 6 PM
[16:32] Moon Adamant: gwyn, np at all
[16:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since others (CLaude, Aliasi, etc) would like to attend as well
[16:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[16:32] Jon Seattle: Yes, I think it will be fine.
[16:32] Moon Adamant: of course we understand that robin has a lot of demands on her time
[16:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should be interesting, although I'm *not* going to say we have a special guest,
[16:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or else we'll crash the grid :P
[16:33] Moon Adamant: lol
[16:33] Moon Adamant: ok
[16:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... and remember, Wednesday is Upgrade Day!
[16:33] Moon Adamant: expansion?
[16:33] You: thanks for setting it up, gwyn
[16:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes... expansion
[16:33] Charlotte Gillespie: If you say there's a Linden there, you'll get all sorts of nerks turning up wanting to whinge about unrelated matters
[16:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yoge, it was all Robin's idea,
[16:33] Moon Adamant raises her eybrow in a groucho marx way :)
[16:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have not much to be 'thanked' for actually :)
[16:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Expansion! Expansion !
[16:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[16:34] Moon Adamant: ok
[16:34] Moon Adamant: well, espansion is a pressing matter
[16:34] Moon Adamant: as you know, we have already two things happening
[16:34] Moon Adamant: one is that we actually have a plan chosen for our second sim
[16:34] Moon Adamant: teh other is that we have a community that is the same size of ours or eigger, even
[16:35] Moon Adamant: or bigger*
[16:35] Sudane Erato is offline
[16:35] Moon Adamant: wanting to join us and become citizens
[16:35] Jon Seattle nods
[16:35] Moon Adamant: so it is really a pressing subject
[16:35] Moon Adamant: hello Gxe :)
[16:35] Gxeremio Dimsum: Hello
[16:35] Moon Adamant: do have a sit, we just started ehehe
[16:36] Charlotte Gillespie: Hello, Mr Unpronounceable Name. :)
[16:36] Jon Seattle: Hello Gxeremio
[16:36] You: hi gxe
[16:36] Jon Seattle: Moon was just talking about the group wanting to join..
[16:36] Moon Adamant: this is actually an interesting way to say we can espand in two ways
[16:37] Moon Adamant: one is a very concrete way - we add more land, creating a clusetr, a territory
[16:37] Moon Adamant: the other is a more abstract way - we add people
[16:37] Moon Adamant: now
[16:38] Moon Adamant: teh two can be done together, of course
[16:38] Moon Adamant: but it's actually the people that is Neufreistadt, more than the territory
[16:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* (and says hi to Gxeremio!)
[16:39] Moon Adamant: now, teh concrete expansion has an economic cost, we know what that is
[16:39] Jon Seattle nods and agrees
[16:39] Moon Adamant: we propose that a careful expansion be made on this area, BUT
[16:39] Moon Adamant: we also think that as SL expands, we do also need to expand
[16:40] Moon Adamant: so we are willing to take a calculated risk
[16:40] Moon Adamant: teh abstract way though
[16:40] Moon Adamant: is something that we can begin now
[16:40] Moon Adamant: we call it 'Open Source Democracy'
[16:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles :)
[16:41] Moon Adamant: meaning that we can lend our expertise and experience
[16:41] Moon Adamant: to thers
[16:41] Moon Adamant: others*
[16:42] Moon Adamant: this is very resumedly our proposal as expansion goes
[16:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn thanks Moon for the explanation :)
[16:43] Moon Adamant: smiles at gwyn
[16:43] Moon Adamant: i did think i had seen you clapping yoru hands, lol
[16:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So there are two plans, actually...
[16:43] Charlotte Gillespie: I'm too busy chain smoking :(
[16:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Physical, territorial expansion. One government, several sims...
[16:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Lending expertise to others who wish to do the same, but independently.
[16:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Under 2), comes the role of "foreign affairs" — establishing "embassies" (a cute word to say that we'll have people working together with other groups to help them out)
[16:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I think that we should do some devil's advocate questions :D
[16:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On 1) — how to finance territorial expansion? :)
[16:45] Moon Adamant: well
[16:45] Moon Adamant: that is an easy one
[16:46] Charlotte Gillespie: Bribe Robin Linden on Wednesday
[16:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[16:46] Moon Adamant: first of all, i don't know if you have the notion that Nstadt is actually lucrative
[16:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Won't work, Charlotte — she's not easily bribed ;)
[16:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, indeed.
[16:46] Charlotte Gillespie: Nothing in SL is lucrative, unless it's flogging cyber dongs
[16:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We make a profit. Not to become filthy rich, but we are able to have a surplus on our budget. Enough to pay 2 months in advance, for instance.
[16:47] Moon Adamant: it is very competitive as land business, as well
[16:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Charlotte — and you might be surprised ;)
[16:47] Moon Adamant: that only not because of models, as due to a careful urban plan and regulation
[16:47] Moon Adamant: because of renting model*
[16:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Moon, also, because we're able to get a current stream of people flowing in, even if some go away...
[16:48] Moon Adamant: that capacity for urban regulation is one of Stadt's major assets
[16:48] Moon Adamant: yes that too
[16:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So there is an aspect of marketing that has worked out nicely, so far :)
[16:48] Moon Adamant: our strongest point: we are a community indeed
[16:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I think that there are several psychological factors that help N'stadt...
[16:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes,
[16:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the community bit.
[16:49] Moon Adamant: so as you can see, the monthly cost can be easily covered
[16:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The accountability (every one knows how much every one else pays, and we know monthly what that money is spent on)
[16:49] Moon Adamant: there remaisn teh question of investment
[16:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The somewhat good reputation... hehe, despite everything ;)
[16:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes,
[16:49] Moon Adamant: we too have a model for that that has covered the investment on this sim
[16:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we had a bonds/loans system set up,
[16:50] Moon Adamant: and that can be done again, and again
[16:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which was long-term
[16:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and paid interest!
[16:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It might have been "risky" back then,
[16:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since of course people could fear that we'd run away with the money and close down the sim,
[16:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but in fact we have established our own record for long-term projects :) ... and yes, all the loans were paid back months ago.
[16:51] Jon Seattle: As an investor I would be interested in a place like this -- because of the non-profit nature land can be sold at very competitive prices, with the theme and community also drawing people. I doubt our sims will ever have to go empty.
[16:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, Jon,
[16:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: although there *is* risk,
[16:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the interest is low (remember the fluctuating L$!)
[16:51] Jon Seattle nods
[16:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it won't be a place for "high risk investors"
[16:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but for people planning to stay around in SL for a *long* time.
[16:52] Moon Adamant: no... but it wioll be aplace for people willing to invest on a long-term project
[16:52] Moon Adamant: it will*
[16:52] Jon Seattle nods and agrees
[16:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In a place where there is no griefing — both "human" griefing, and "visual" griefing. For some, who wish to spend regular time here, this is a good selling point.
[16:52] Moon Adamant: ok
[16:52] Moon Adamant: we believe, of coruse, that all these assets can be replicated
[16:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hopefully, yes :)
[16:53] Moon Adamant: we do know that teh Colonia Plan sim has them as well - plus the added lustre of being linked to the N'stadt project
[16:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: more land means more people, and not necessarily at a higher risk — I would even be so bold as saying that the reverse is true,
[16:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: some costs remain the same
[16:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so the risk is also about the same
[16:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... but the profit might be slightly higher (diminishing costs with growth)
[16:54] Moon Adamant: yes
[16:54] Moon Adamant: so it is also, as we see, a good economic policy for the project
[16:54] Moon Adamant: but let's talk about the people now
[16:55] Moon Adamant listens to Jon
[16:55] Jon Seattle: Gwyn, if the sims run a surplus, I suppose that will provide a larger cushon for the entire replublic
[16:55] Moon Adamant: yes, exactly
[16:56] Jon Seattle listens to Moon
[16:56] Moon Adamant: more sims would mean more surplus
[16:56] Moon Adamant: that money can be invested again on land
[16:56] Moon Adamant: or
[16:56] Moon Adamant: on projects
[16:57] Moon Adamant: we think that the investment on projects such as teh School, teh MoCA
[16:58] Moon Adamant: the projects that our Esperantists ctizens care to develop as a group
[16:58] Moon Adamant: are also N'stadt in expansion
[16:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[16:58] Moon Adamant: and therefore we believe that that investment also draws a return
[16:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that we have often overlooked this significant difference to mere "rental" groups...
[16:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not to minimise them, of course; almost all of them are *very* profitable (and not only "marginally" so)
[16:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... it's the way we try to promote and encourage groups to live in N'stadt,
[17:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: develop their own projects inside a common "umbrella organisation"
[17:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... and provide for them support: logistics,
[17:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: laws,
[17:00] Moon Adamant: exactly
[17:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: even financial support,
[17:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: know-how
[17:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: promotion...
[17:00] Moon Adamant: lend them our stablished structures, freeing them to follow their projects more effectively
[17:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The usual model for "rental" groups is slightly different: they provide services
[17:01] Moon Adamant: yes
[17:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, shopping malls, events, attractions
[17:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To keep the rentees happy
[17:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And they'll stay there as long as they get uh "entertained".
[17:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In a sense, N'stadt is more like SL's overall structure hehe
[17:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... we don't "impose" entertainment on citizens,
[17:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we "encourage" them to self-organise and provide that entertainment,
[17:02] Moon Adamant: smiles at imposed entertainment :)
[17:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the city just provides the required structures/support
[17:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[17:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm inspired, I know ;)
[17:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah,
[17:03] Jon Seattle laughs
[17:03] Moon Adamant: :)
[17:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I still have a devil advocate's question on the "Open Source Democracy" model ;)
[17:03] Gxeremio Dimsum: ok got to go. maybe back later. moon, have you had a chance to finish that survey?
[17:03] Moon Adamant: lol, fire away
[17:03] Moon Adamant: Gxe, sorry - not yet :(
[17:04] Moon Adamant: when do you need it?
[17:04] Gxeremio Dimsum: When do you think you might have that done? I was hoping to have a voter guide in tomorrow's edition, since the election starts before next week's paper comes out
[17:05] Moon Adamant: hmmm, ok, i'll send it to you today
[17:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[17:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn is also embarassed,
[17:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: .... since I haven't replied either!!!
[17:06] Gxeremio Dimsum: Thanks Moon. Have a great day, folks!
[17:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, my question on "Open Source Demcoracy"... was more related, to what purpose will it serve?
[17:06] Moon Adamant: thanks for showing up Gxe :)
[17:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: After all, we would be handing people everything in a silver platter...
[17:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... and not get anything in return!
[17:06] Moon Adamant: ah, but we would get return
[17:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: "Press [Enter] to install self-government in your community" :)
[17:07] Moon Adamant: we would get more democratic sims
[17:07] Jon Seattle: I suppose like other open source projects, we hand them things in hopes that some fraction will contribute more to the project
[17:07] Moon Adamant: we'd get more people in them
[17:07] Moon Adamant: developing their own projects
[17:08] Moon Adamant: and we could stablish a relay, a community of democratic sims, and develop projects at bigger scales
[17:08] Jon Seattle: Really, one of the things that did not come out of the democrtically run MOOs was a kind of collective knoledge base that could be drawn on for future projects.
[17:09] Moon Adamant: we could get a flow of people and of ideas inside this community, and derive a return from that as well
[17:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that's interesting to know, Jon.
[17:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why not, do you think?
[17:10] Jon Seattle: I think each community had its own internal politics, and as here it is always a draw to get involved in that poltic. Also remember MOOs are not part of a larger world for the most part, though some have created a decientalized way to step from world
[17:10] Jon Seattle: to world
[17:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm.
[17:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[17:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I do think that not everything we're doing here will apply *world-wide*,
[17:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but some ideas might catch.
[17:11] Jon Seattle agrees
[17:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Specially the ones dealing with external threats to the group, and overcoming the limitations of SL's technology.
[17:12] Jon Seattle: We may need a kind of Firefox manual of metverse democracy
[17:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! :D
[17:12] Moon Adamant: well, i don't think either that it would be an overall modeel
[17:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could create the "Open Source Democracy Wiki"!
[17:12] Moon Adamant: but i do agree with you gwyn
[17:13] Moon Adamant: oh, that is a good idea!
[17:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon, we need a logo :)
[17:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[17:13] Moon Adamant: lol
[17:13] Moon Adamant: i have heard those words before :)
[17:13] Jon Seattle: oh, I better explain the "firefox" reference.. not the browser
[17:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Get a logo, get a name, and that's 90% of the work done! (remember Microsoft!)
[17:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah lol Jon
[17:13] Moon Adamant listens to Jon
[17:13] Jon Seattle laughs
[17:14] Jon Seattle: Firefox was a series of books on folk culture and history, focusing on apachia
[17:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh thus the name.
[17:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm sorry, Jon, I have never read that series...
[17:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[17:14] Moon Adamant: ok....
[17:15] Moon Adamant: any more devils' advocates? :)
[17:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But hmm it would follow the European model (some would say "mania") of establishing a lot of "white books" of "best practices",
[17:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: our counterpart would certainly be something very near to a Wiki :)
[17:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well hmm,
[17:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon, if you get elected, I'll set that up — LOL
[17:15] Moon Adamant: lol
[17:15] Jon Seattle: LOL http://www.foxfire.org/prodFFbooks.html
[17:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Jon :)
[17:16] Jon Seattle laughs
[17:16] Moon Adamant: btw, gave the CSDF memabers' names to day to FR
[17:16] Jon Seattle: yes, a wiki would be great.
[17:16] Moon Adamant: members*
[17:16] Moon Adamant: since he does need to fill the voting system with them
[17:16] Moon Adamant: and thanks Jon :)
[17:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes,
[17:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should talk to FR about the possibility of having a "no vote" option.
[17:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ie. blank voting..
[17:17] Moon Adamant: ah drat
[17:17] Moon Adamant: i totally forgot that
[17:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just remembered it now, when you mentioned FR... :(
[17:17] Moon Adamant thinks she must begin writing notes to herself on palm of hand, lol
[17:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn wants an USB port to upload memos from iCal ;)
[17:18] Moon Adamant: ok
[17:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean in my brain...
[17:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... so.... meeting adjourned? :)
[17:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I still have to visit an art gallery
[17:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[17:18] Moon Adamant: well... adjourned is not the word
[17:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[17:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: closed, locked and bolted? :)
[17:18] Moon Adamant: it's more like... ended :)
[17:18] Moon Adamant: yes, exactly :)
[17:19] Jon Seattle smiles
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