Transcript of Meeting of the CSDF June 24th, 2006

[Gwyneth Llewelyn]

[8:24] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: shall we start teh meeting?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:24] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle nods and smiles[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:24] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: since you two have otehr things to do in 1.5 hours?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:24] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Oh, my talk is tomorrow[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:25] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: ah[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:25] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: lol, what a mess[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:25] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: hehe indeed.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:25] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: but gwyn has one all the same[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:25] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: the 3rd anniversary makes us all very busy[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:25] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:25] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: ok, let's start then[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:25] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes, lots of stuff falling on at same time[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:25] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:26] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: ok, let me check the forums in a sec[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:26] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle smiles[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:26] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: proposed agenda?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:27] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: I think we need to discuss my proposals, but just as important our propoals on cabinet and confederation[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:27] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: ok[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:27] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Ok[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:27] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: so is point 4 still[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:27] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: hmmm[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:27] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: a bit undeciding here[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:28] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn is undecided as well[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:28] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: well, i can only propose a sketch at this point[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:28] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Ok, let's hear it [/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:28] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: well, it is very simple:[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:29] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: i have been - as you know - thinking on this[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:29] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: seems that there are several issues[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:30] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: first of all - and most important - is that you can't alter one entity without altering teh others[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:30] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: even if very little[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:30] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle nods[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:30] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: our action as teh proposal goes[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:30] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: You mean the current 3 branches, Moon?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:31] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: needs to be in sense of assuring some things[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:31] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes, i do[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:31] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: namely:[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:31] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: that there are no indefinitions in roles of powers[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:32] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: ex: executive is now dispersed between the 3 branches[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:32] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: that means if an executive is proposed[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:32] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: executive action*[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:32] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Yes, it means the other two braches loose all executive powers.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:33] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: you amy have to discuss between the branches how to take it[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:33] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: may[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:33] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: that causes delays and indefinitions[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:33] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: so, executive power must be attributed definetely to one branch, i think[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:34] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: this would be the proposed cabinet[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:35] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: this cabinet would stem out of the general elections[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:35] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: instead of being a corporative Guild[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:35] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: but we have discussed this already[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:35] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Yes, I guess that as far, we have discussed it[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:35] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: And I think we all agree, right?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:35] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Yes.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:37] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: The question I have mostly is what powers will remain with the Cabinet, and which powers will be RA[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:37] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle nods[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:38] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes, i agree[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:39] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: sorry[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:40] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: as far as i have considered this, i think that these issues will be all connected to the representativity issue[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:41] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: and i must really ask you for some time more so i can write it all down [/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:41] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Wait... "these issues" .... you're talking now about executive powers?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:41] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes, but also balance of branches[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:42] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: since as if you reserev teh executive to one branch, you'll alter the balance that is now[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:42] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: reserve*[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:42] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle nods[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:43] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: It might be better to write it.. we can get together some time next week to discuss? I think we have some constraints on time because of the election.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:43] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes, i will - just was resuming it so far for general information[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:44] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Ok[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:44] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle smiles[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:44] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: The other day, when writing the article on the SL History Wiki, I gave some thoughts to the "powers" that RA and Guild currently have.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:44] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: It looks like the Guild effectively has all administrative powers[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:44] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Now, hmm[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:44] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: true![/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:44] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: under a "Cabinet" model, and effectively getting rid of the Guild,[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:45] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: I wonder what will happen to all those administrative powers.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:45] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Will they go to the Cabinet instead?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:45] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Or the Guild will become the Civil Service?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:45] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Under the control/overseeing of the Cabinet?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:46] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: Civil Seviice is also a thing to consider[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:46] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: I would propose something like a transfer of the powers of the Guild to a Civil Service[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:46] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Yes, perhaps most important as those adminsrative functions are so difficult today.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:47] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: well, they do take a large ammount of work[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:47] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: that is a fact[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:47] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:47] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: and are vital for the maintenance of territory and community[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:48] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: On the other hand, there seems to be little overseeing on those nowadays[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:48] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: since essentially the RA does not "rule" over the Guild.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:48] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: They give things to the Guild for the Guild to "handle"[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:48] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: But if the Guild doesn't handle them... well...\[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:48] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: well, that's because you have the executive dispersed[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:48] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: that's the problem I see with the current model![/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:48] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Yes.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:49] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Yes, the guild functions as an independant entity.. which is fine but only if we have good guild masters.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:49] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes, Jon...[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:49] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: now imagine if one day we get a daft Guidlmeister like that silly Moon Adamant [/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:50] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: it would be chaos lol[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:50] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: True, Jon[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:50] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: And yes, Moon[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:50] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: It's a real problem.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:50] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle thinks you would make lots of lists and do just fine.[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:50] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: hehe [/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:50] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: lol[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:50] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle laughs[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:51] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: well, i will try to summarize these issues in a written document[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:51] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: important only for now to say[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:51] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: That would be best, since I personally feel this is the area where things are more "shady"[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:52] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle nods "I agree"[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:52] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: that i think if reforms be proposed, we may have to propose deep reforms[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:52] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: since people will want to know what exactly are we proposing: a model where the executive passes the bills, but the RA approves them;[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:52] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: and wider in scope than just repalcing a guild for a cabinet[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:52] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: a model where some laws come from the Cabinet, others from the RA;[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:52] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: and how exactly those laws are implemented and overseen.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:52] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes exactly, Moon[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:52] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: and there is also teh SC issue[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:52] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: anyway[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:53] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: Jon's proposals[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:53] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Okay.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:54] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: I guess the one that I heard some question about was the first[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:54] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: hi Aliasi .)[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:54] [color=DarkGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Aliasi Stonebender[/b:9qszjcpa]: knock knock?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:54] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Hi![/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:54] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Hiya Aliasi [/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:54] [color=DarkGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Aliasi Stonebender[/b:9qszjcpa]: this is the most people I've seen in the sim not for an RA meeting in a while.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:54] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Join the CSDF's meeting, hehe[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:55] [color=DarkGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Aliasi Stonebender[/b:9qszjcpa]: heh![/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:55] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle smiles[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:55] [color=DarkGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Aliasi Stonebender[/b:9qszjcpa]: ah, right, this is when you were havin' it.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:55] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: mm hmm hehe[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:55] [color=DarkGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Aliasi Stonebender[/b:9qszjcpa]: nah, just saw the people and wondered what was about. don't let me interrupt![/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:55] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: No problem![/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:55] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Oh, we're mostly brainstorming a bit, Aliasi.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:55] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: np aliasi lol[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:56] [color=DarkGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Aliasi Stonebender[/b:9qszjcpa]: after yer done, sure, I'll shoot the breeze, but I'll let you get biz done.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:56] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle smiles[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:56] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: bye, see you later! [/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:56] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: ok Jon [/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:56] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: In any case, I heard someone comment that[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:56] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: the first might make us too commerical.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:57] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: But I think as we grow, growing out own economy will be important.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:57] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: our[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:57] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle smiles[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:57] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Oh, we need to address that.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:57] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes agree[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:57] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: I mean the economy,[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:57] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: also[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:58] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: And I still would like to see some businesses really open up in the square.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:58] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: remeber that as we become a confed[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:58] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: at least in SL we can't expect money falling from the trees, lol[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:58] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: ok, well, *some* money does![/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:58] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle laughs at Gwyn's comment about trees[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:58] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: the commercial issue will be important[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:58] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: since CN will have 40% of commercial space[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:59] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: So, the main thing I am proposing, it for us to plot our own destiny, rather than just letting the market decide what we become.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:59] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: and commercial issues such as a chamber of commerce, good business practice etc will be important for teh health of that commerce[/color:9qszjcpa]
[8:59] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: indeed, and i agree[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:00] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Gwyn, any thoughts?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:00] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Sorry guys — literally, nature calls [/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:00] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: hehe[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:00] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle laughs[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:01] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Ok Jon,[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:01] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: what do you mean exactly with "plotting our own destiny"?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:01] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: I mean really shaping the marketplace rather than just selling the space to any bidder[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:02] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Establishing an identity -- just as some regions are known for certain food or clothing products[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:02] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: we can have many producers known for certain things.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:02] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Ah, I see. Look beyond "selling parcels" and "opening shops"[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:02] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes, what i meant as well[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:02] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: I totally agree.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:02] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Ok.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:02] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle smiles[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:03] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Yes, we're aligned on that![/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:03] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Actually hmm[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:03] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: To be honest about UZ and Kendra, this was a bit what they thought as well[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:03] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Thus, the Chicken Hat[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:03] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle nods[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:03] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: and the Neuspa[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:03] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:04] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes, I think they are right on that one.. (not on all other things.)[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:04] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: It was an attempt to link the name of the community to a "brand", an image, a concept, which would also become the idea people had about us: a community of talented, high quality products.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:04] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: exactly.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:04] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: also what was thought about CN, as well[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:04] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: *producers of content[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:04] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Yes[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:05] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle smiles[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:05] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: CN is the same concept, different theme[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:05] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: indeed[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:05] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Which is also important: showing that the world is not just Fachwerks hehe[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:05] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle laughs[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:05] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: lol[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:05] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Though I must admit Moon's tiny fechwerk is very cute![/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:05] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: hehe yes[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:05] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: [/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:05] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: I told her the same![/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:06] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: lol, thank you both [/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:06] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle smiles[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:06] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Ok, and the next sim will be an Egyptian one, and next, a science-fiction one [/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:06] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: hehe[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:06] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: all planned [/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:06] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: If you have any comments on language or presenation. the best thing might be to reply in the forum so I can integrate those.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:06] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle lal[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:06] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: lol[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:07] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: So education?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:07] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Ah yes[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:07] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: I think you have seen this one in various stages..[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:07] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: I know I should have been thinking more about it,[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:07] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: If you take a look at http://history.secondserver.net/index.php/Neufreistadt[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:07] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: you'll see I've stopped at arts & education myself.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:07] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: /em looks[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:08] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: It came to a point where actually we always stop when we think about it[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:08] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Why stop?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:08] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: I don't know, Jon, perhaps the truth is, so far not many of our projects in that area had any effect.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:09] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Let me tell you a little of my thoughts on this one.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:09] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: well, maybe they didn't have hmm sufficient lenght?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:09] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: and please Jon [/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:09] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: hah Moon. You're mean to me [/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:09] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: no, lol, din't mean it at all[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:10] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Okay, I focus on design education, becaus designers are one side of SL. As Gwyn's writings point out, the line is not always clear.. but of great interest[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:10] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: There are a growing number of people who want to be or are designers[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:10] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: This means more than learning how to build[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:10] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: indeed it does[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:11] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: in fact you can hang an entire liberal arts education on it.. [/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:11] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: what you mean is[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:11] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Ok... I see an area with potential for education there.... good idea![/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:11] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: that teh objects resultant of a design process have an intrisic quality[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:12] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: I came to second life, in part. because I wanted to talk to other people who were interested in design. I think I am not alone in this.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:12] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: and that that quality should be the distinctive mark of the products of Nstadt/CN, eventually a larger confed in future[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:12] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: But this may be of interest, because some people will ask, okay there are great things being made, how do I learn to make them?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:12] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Ok.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:12] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: A Design School[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:12] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Hmm [/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:12] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: It might work[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:13] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: But I wanted a plan that did not focus on classroom education[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:13] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: which I do not think that effective in any case, and less fun in general.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:13] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: if we coudl set that design philosophy as our distinctive mark - and actually make it go FURTHER than aesthetic themes[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:14] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: exactly![/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:14] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Oh. I'm afraid I'm a bit out of my area of expertise here....[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:14] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: I'll leave the details to you, hehe [/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:15] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: The other aspect, is that the plan scales well.. we can start small and grow it.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:15] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: But in general, yes, I like both concepts: tying somehow the name of N'stadt to good design, and offer a "design school" (not using traditional classroom models)[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:15] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: hmmmm[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:15] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle smiles[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:15] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: typing here like mad and can't find teh words lol[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:16] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: lol I know the feeling![/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:16] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: what i want to say is[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:16] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: right now we're a bit known as the 'fachwerk people'[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:16] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Aye.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:16] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: and we should change that view for 'the peopel that can do anything with quality'[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:16] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: absolutly![/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:17] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: untill now, we have been restricted to a theme - and that's what has caused thsi general view[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:17] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: i think that CN only will begin to change that[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:17] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: but[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:17] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: if we make this school[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:18] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: and we can have a nucleous of designers steming from that[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:18] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: as they keep on carrying their own projects or not[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:18] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: they will add even more to that change of view[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:18] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: i guess it is important for this project then[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:19] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: that the community assures teh school visibility[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:19] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes. I think if we can really get it established, it will become its own community[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:19] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: that visibility can be done, as i think i mentioned to you Jon[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:20] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: in collaboration with the MoCA, i think, and with planning authority that can share some commercial space[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:20] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: At least that is the first plan I see that addresses *both* the MoCA *and* the School[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:20] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Yes, it potentially ties those together too[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:20] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: So, I like it![/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:20] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: and lol Jon — my words exactly hehe[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:21] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle smiles[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:21] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: i like it as well[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:21] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: once again, if you have ANY suggestions on wording or presenation, please put them on the forum.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:21] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: I hope next week will give me some more time to look at the forums properly...[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:21] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: i think our proposal here could also run in a sense of protocols being stablished between these entities...[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:21] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Ok, yes[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:22] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: they would continue to run independently[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:22] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: but would have a collaborative action[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:22] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: Finally, the thrid proposal -- extracts the planning festival idea[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:22] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: ok[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:22] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: And of course would have to integrate with Moon's work[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:23] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: well, this actually fits in with something i has been thinking[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:23] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: i have*[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:23] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle listens[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:23] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: my idea was hmmm[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:24] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: let me give you an example[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:24] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: suppose teh three of us (or any other 3 citizens)[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:25] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: constituted a group whose objective would be hmmm[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:25] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: say, filling n'stadt with fountains with unicorns lol[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:25] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle laughs[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:25] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: now, you see that this deals with territory issues and building[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:26] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: so you see that it falls under Guild authority[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:26] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: In my plan they would have to form a team and make a presentation that would convince others..[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:26] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:26] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: but what i think is[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:26] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: that right now[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:26] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: you wouldn't constitute the team[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:27] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: because you could also do it inside the guild[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:27] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: see?[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:27] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle is still giggling at the idea of fountains and unicorns everywhere[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:27] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: in a way[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:28] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: teh guild is an all-absorbing entity for all kinds of creative work[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:28] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][i:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle nods[/i:9qszjcpa][/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:28] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Indeed it is[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:28] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: i have beem wondering if that's why we don't have more groups at n'stadt[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:29] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: spontaneously organized you see[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:29] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: like this We Like Unicorn Fountains group[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:29] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Ah yes[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:29] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: Civic participation, through other ways that are not governmental[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:29] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: exactly![/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:29] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: we just have 2: school and MoCA[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:29] [color=Sienna:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Jon Seattle[/b:9qszjcpa]: yes.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:29] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: you do have the gift of words gwyn[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:29] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: ah[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:29] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: and both[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:30] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: are a bit hmmm stopped[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:30] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: That's what I worry about.[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:30] [color=DarkOliveGreen:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:9qszjcpa]: The School, well, is "newer"[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:31] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: (though school organizers have been very laden with issues of late - and that is teh actual reason, i think)[/color:9qszjcpa]
[9:31] [color=Black:9qszjcpa][b:9qszjcpa]Moon Adamant[/b:9qszjcpa]: but the MoCA is stopped[/color:9qszjcpa]

[Gwyneth Llewelyn]

[9:31] [color=Sienna:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Jon Seattle[/b:39712zm2]: There may be an advantage in getting everyone involved.[/color:39712zm2]
[9:31] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: my idea here is[/color:39712zm2]
[9:32] [color=Sienna:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Jon Seattle[/b:39712zm2]: That was what I was hoping with this proposal, a feeling of invetment in the community by virtue of helping to make it what it is.[/color:39712zm2]
[9:32] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: if you make the guild an association of citizens without any government role[/color:39712zm2]
[9:32] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: and a cabinet to contract work/revise[/color:39712zm2]
[9:32] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: (btw, the MoCA is stopped *again* — for the fith time!)[/color:39712zm2]
[9:32] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: *fifth[/color:39712zm2]
[9:33] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: then you could see more groups appearing[/color:39712zm2]
[9:33] [color=Sienna:39712zm2][i:39712zm2]Jon Seattle nods to Gwyn[/i:39712zm2][/color:39712zm2]
[9:33] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: and they would compete[/color:39712zm2]
[9:33] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: in their own areas[/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: Ok, Moon. I don't know if you explained your plan of having those groups nominate people for the SC[/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: and would be able to propose and plan at this festival[/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: on the forums, or in private, I just know what you told me![/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: ah, no, not yet[/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: lol[/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=Sienna:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Jon Seattle[/b:39712zm2]: Very interesting.[/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: *has had very little time for this*[/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: Oh, perhaps you could share your ideas with Jon, then?[/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: aaah[/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: just let me say something before[/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: yes, same here, actually :_P[/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: which is[/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: Ok...[/color:39712zm2]
[9:34] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: i fully agree to your three proposald Jon[/color:39712zm2]
[9:35] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: and i think personally that they should be part of our programme[/color:39712zm2]
[9:35] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: as they are[/color:39712zm2]
[9:35] [color=Sienna:39712zm2][i:39712zm2]Jon Seattle smiles at moon[/i:39712zm2][/color:39712zm2]
[9:36] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: with just a thing here and tehre so we can have an overall propose[/color:39712zm2]
[9:36] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: proposal.[/color:39712zm2]
[9:37] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: overall in teh sense of total coherence lol[/color:39712zm2]
[9:37] [color=Sienna:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Jon Seattle[/b:39712zm2]: Yes, of course![/color:39712zm2]
[9:37] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: Yes, we don't have much time for much more hehe[/color:39712zm2]
[9:37] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: also, the voters will not read a 20-page proposal[/color:39712zm2]
[9:37] [color=Sienna:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Jon Seattle[/b:39712zm2]: I think we can make a 1 page summary and point to larger white papers on various topics.[/color:39712zm2]
[9:38] [color=Sienna:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Jon Seattle[/b:39712zm2]: Or two or three. but no more than that.[/color:39712zm2]
[9:38] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: but it was a great work you did already - and tehse ideas will be very appealing to all those who would like bthe democracy to be more participative[/color:39712zm2]
[9:38] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: If we have the time. Yes.[/color:39712zm2]
[9:38] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: and i agree to that[/color:39712zm2]
[9:38] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: on SC briefly[/color:39712zm2]
[9:38] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: what i have been thinking is[/color:39712zm2]
[9:38] [color=Sienna:39712zm2][i:39712zm2]Jon Seattle listens[/i:39712zm2][/color:39712zm2]
[9:38] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: we have 3 branches[/color:39712zm2]
[9:39] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: which are chosen in different factions so to ensure balance[/color:39712zm2]
[9:39] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: ok so far[/color:39712zm2]
[9:39] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: only 1 is elected[/color:39712zm2]
[9:39] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: teh others are[/color:39712zm2]
[9:39] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: 1. Guild - corporative - masters elect GuildMeister[/color:39712zm2]
[9:40] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: 2. SC - a meritocracy[/color:39712zm2]
[9:40] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: in which chairs elect dean[/color:39712zm2]
[9:40] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: and then dena choses chairr[/color:39712zm2]
[9:41] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: my, typos[/color:39712zm2]
[9:41] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: dean chooses chairs[/color:39712zm2]
[9:41] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: this is a bit of a circle here[/color:39712zm2]
[9:41] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: Yes.[/color:39712zm2]
[9:41] [color=Sienna:39712zm2][i:39712zm2]Jon Seattle nods[/i:39712zm2][/color:39712zm2]
[9:42] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: Although the Dean can only count with the memebrs that get a vote of confidence from both Guild & RA[/color:39712zm2]
[9:42] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: yes[/color:39712zm2]
[9:42] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: but[/color:39712zm2]
[9:42] [color=Sienna:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Jon Seattle[/b:39712zm2]: I have to go.. but lets get together later this week to talk more on these.[/color:39712zm2]
[9:42] [color=Sienna:39712zm2][i:39712zm2]Jon Seattle smiles[/i:39712zm2][/color:39712zm2]
[9:42] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: we'll have to, lol[/color:39712zm2]
[9:43] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: ok, so let's adjourn this[/color:39712zm2]
[9:43] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: gwyn, please take the log[/color:39712zm2]
[9:43] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: Ok...[/color:39712zm2]
[9:43] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: oops[/color:39712zm2]
[9:43] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: All right, I will![/color:39712zm2]
[9:43] [color=Sienna:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Jon Seattle[/b:39712zm2]: So nice to see you Gwyn and Moon![/color:39712zm2]
[9:43] [color=Black:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Moon Adamant[/b:39712zm2]: bye, have fun! [/color:39712zm2]
[9:43] [color=DarkOliveGreen:39712zm2][b:39712zm2]Gwyneth Llewelyn[/b:39712zm2]: Thanks Jon — and likewise![/color:39712zm2]